Bridgerton, Season Three, Episodes 5-8: A Discussion
Sirius: In the last part of the season we get to see the conclusion of Colin and Penelope’s storyline and I did not really care about it all that much.
I do think though that a lot of it stems from the fact that show runners chose to reveal Penelope as Lady Whistledown to the viewers if not to other characters in the beginning of the first season. I still do not see any storyline based reason to do so, but I think in this season the fact that we already know who she is made all the questions kind of pointless. I mean suspense obviously disappears ( although this is a secondary issue – I get that the show is a romance, not a suspense), but also made some of the characters act bizarre for me.
Janine: Maybe it’s because I haven’t read the books but I can see the showrunners’ reasoning. For me the reveal in season one added suspense because now I wanted to know what Eloise and Colin’s reactions would be when they found out. Maybe reading the book and knowing how they would react removed that element for you? But for me it actually added a lot, especially in season two, and I thought we also got to see the *why* of Penelope’s reasons for being Lady W better than if it had all been left for this season. That her biggest reason was her lack of agency in the rest of her life. That she needed to wield power somewhere. And I thought there was a payoff here when Eloise told her to stop writing and also when Cressida took credit for her writing–Penelope was quite insistent that her pen (and what a pun that is on her name) was hers and that she didn’t want to stop using it. That it would be like lopping off an arm for her to give up Lady Whisteldown, that she would not be complete without it.
Now I haven’t read the book and if all that was in there and there was sufficient time to explore it all, then I could be wrong in my opinion. But I have a hard time imagining it all fitting into one book and still having the romance in it.
Sirius: The more I think about it the more I think that it did not work for me. The reveal so early in the series and very little of it has to do with the book per se. I read it once I think after the first season, I liked it quite a bit, but I never reread it till now – bits and pieces and I surely cannot say that I am emotionally attached to it. Of course, had it been the book that became one of my favorites or favorite rereads, I am sure a lot of my reactions had been colored by reading the book first and thinking what I thought in a lot of book to screen adaptations :). I am pretty sure that it is not the case here for me. I just honestly think that the book handled emotional beats of their romance better and it also connected to one of your points below that this season was less romantic than the first two. See, I do not necessarily think that Penelope and Colin’s story is less romantic, far from it BUT their story is using a friends to lovers trope, right?
I think when you have that, sometimes you need to provide readers with more drama than when complete strangers start the courtship and I think the reveal of Penelope’s alter ego served as a crescendo so to speak and Colin overall handled it better.
I also agree that it could not have all fitted in the book, and it was not. Some of the events are not there for obvious reasons, especially Eloise’s reactions.
About Colin–Choose the reason for your outrage, man. Are you really that upset that Lady Whistledown wrote something about you that was kind of true. Once, at the beginning of the season?
Are you upset that you cannot protect Penelope? Are you upset that she is more popular as a writer than you are even though you have not published your travel stories just yet? Of course he can be upset about all of this together, but it just did not make sense for me that he would be upset about it for too long.
Janine: On this I couldn’t agree more. Colin was a whiner and a drip for much of the season and I just didn’t find him attractive. I’ve said before that some of that is in Luke Newton’s performance and I stand by that. It’s hard to articulate but I feel like I can’t see Colin’s soul in his performance.
In this half season I was particularly annoyed by Colin’s jealousy of Pen’s talent and success and then how upset he was at her independence and her ability to take care of herself. These are things to *ADMIRE*, Colin, not to whine about. Between those two things he came across as not only spoiled and petulant (which I also thought he was in season two) but now insecure as well. I wish Penelope had found her happy ending with Lord Debling.
Sirius: At this point I am not all that impressed by his performance either, and I was looking for more chemistry too. Like I said, I seriously liked how the book handled the reveal so much more. So much more. Yes he follows her, yes he gets upset for a minute or two, but this revelation causes him to realize that he loves Penelope and that now he loves her more. I mean that was dramatic and made perfect sense to me. Oh well.
Janine: That sounds lovely and I agree the romance here didn’t have much of a payoff. I’ve heard people say that there was a lot less focus on the central romance in this season than in earlier ones and I agree. This season was also not as romantic or satisfying to me in that regard. How do you feel about it relative to the earlier seasons?
Sirius: I touched upon it a little bit in the response above, but I would say yes and no. I absolutely feel that the main couples in the first two seasons had more chemistry BUT I liked Penelope and Colin’s story the best (or I should say I liked the story that I read the best not as much the story that I watched now that all said and done)
Each of the first seasons though used a trope that was a turn off for me to more or less degree. I could not like Daphne at the end of the first season and I do not particularly care for two sisters fighting to get the same man either, so yes, the story here had the potential to be my favorite. Alas.
Janine: For now the second season (Kate and Anthony’s romance) remains my favorite.
Sirius: Eloise’s dramatics also made me roll my eyes. Blackmailer’s role really does not suit you woman even if you did not follow through.
Janine: I didn’t see it as blackmail but as an ultimatum. She wanted Colin to know what he was getting into (very naturally, I would too in her shoes) and she was giving Penelope the courtesy of having a little time to tell him herself. Obviously she had to provide a deadline, otherwise what would she do if Penelope drew it out until the last minute? Speak up during the wedding? The sooner Colin found out the better, if he wanted to back out. She wanted to give her brother that opportunity and I don’t blame her. That said, the ultimatum with a deadline plot point is one I’ve seen done before numerous times so it didn’t feel fresh.
Sirius: Yes I did not care for that storyline.
Sirius: Queen Charlotte as a detective? What the actual what? I know it started in the previous seasons, I disliked it there too.
Janine: You know, I don’t take Queen Charlotte at all seriously. To me she is a character the writers use to satirize the marriage-obsessed society, same as with Lady Whisteldown. I feel that both characters are like a wink at the audience–we know this show is going to be a bit absurd, we’re poking fun at ourselves. Therefore I *love* the Queen and whatever absurd activities she gets up to. In fact, the more absurd the better, with her (esp since actress Golda Rousheuvel sells it really well with that twinkle in her eye). For me her wigs signal this aspect of her and because of that very deliberate signal, I’m able to enjoy things that would otherwise make me roll my eyes.
Sirius: Oh no, I do not take her seriously either. I get that it was a satire, I just felt like it was too much of the satire for me.
I did like Violet and Lady Danbury’s brother till the end, I think they had a lovely chemistry.
Janine: Yes, I agree!
Sirius: But speaking of, had Lady Danbury seriously held the grudge at him for something he did as a ten-year-old boy? Really? I get that it ended up being life changing for her. She is much older now and he was ten, time to let go woman.
Janine: That was a headdesk moment for me, when Lord Marcus said that he was only ten. Up until then I understood Lady Danbury’s reaction but when that was revealed I was annoyed. With the writers more than with Lady Danbury because it felt like they were trying to write themselves out of a corner at her character’s expense. If Marcus had been fifteen when he’d ruined her escape, this material could have been so much richer. He would still have been young enough that he could be forgiven, but he would have understood what he was doing better and Lady Danbury’s struggle to forgive him might have been able to play out longer, with more nuance. Both of them would have been in the wrong somewhat, but not too much. It would still have made sense.
Sirius: Agreed.
Sirius: Anthony and Kate were lovely, but I had to roll my eyes when Anthony wanted them to go to India to give birth to the child there.
Janine: That was a bit o_O because what kind of medical care would there be on the ship? I wondered if the writers were looking for a way to write Jonathan Bailey and Simone Ashley out of next season to save some on the budget. You know the writing isn’t strong when I’m starting to wonder why on earth something is there.
Sirius: Once again, agreed, actually makes perfect sense. I know the show is not a historical, I get it, but at places it still pretends no? I will never believe for a second that an English noble would not only allow but suggest travelling with his pregnant wife to such a far distance.
Janine: You know the place where I notice the departure from history the most is the stuff about how titles are inherited (both in the case of the Mondriches and the Featheringtons). If the Featheringtons need a male child to hold onto the title, why does that skip a generation? Penelope and her sisters are all female, shouldn’t the title go to a man, if we’re holding on to the rule that there must be a boy to inherit the title? For this show I’m willing to take lack of historicity but not lack of self-consistency.
What are your thoughts on the Benedict / Tilly / Paul triangle to threesome plot?
I find I like Benedict a lot more than I did at first, or maybe it’s just that Colin makes him look good. I feel that Luke Thompson is a good actor and performs the “confused but in a charming way” aspect of his role really well.
Sirius: I do think Benedict is a good actor. Thank you for telling me the actor’s name :). So, I thought that he and Paul had a great chemistry, I would have liked to see a continuation of the threesome storyline.
Sirius: Do not get me started on Francesca and her fiance. If you are not brave enough to speak with the Queen and ask your mother to do it, how dare you lecture your mother about trying to do it at her own time and place?
Janine: Since it’s been written about so much after the series finale, I don’t consider it a spoiler any longer, so I’m going to bring up the queering of Francesca’s future romance. You’ve probably heard about the huge controversy and how upset many fans were, and that Julia Quinn had to post on the topic to calm the waters a bit. My reaction was a bit more complicated but ultimately I come down on the side of Shondaland having made the right decision even though the Michael to Michaela change creates a completely new character.
I admit I was thrown for a loop at first but it only lasted about half an hour in my case. I had read When He Was Wicked during the break between the season’s two halves, so it was very fresh on my mind. I was waiting for Michael to show up at the wedding and fall hard but instead it was Michaela who appeared, and it was Francesca who seemed floored by her feelings. However, I can see why the showrunners made this choice and I feel it fits the show and makes sense in a way that the way the romance is written in the book might not have.
The book is very angsty but I think the change will make TV romance even more so. It seems (from Benedict’s storyline) that same-sex relationships are taboo in the Bridgerverse, and so I think the taboo that already exists in the book (that Francesca’s love interest is John’s cousin who was raised with him like a sibling) will be amplified by the addition of the second taboo element of queerness.
I also think the show is making the right choice by having it be Francesca and not Michaela who becomes aware of the attraction first. As I was rereading When He Was Wicked, I noticed what an interior novel it was — a lot of the conflict is in Michael’s head as he tries to hide what he feels and not to feel it.
Making it the married Francesca who has these feelings immediately makes it easier for this forbidden attraction to play out on screen because we can see her attempting to cover it up during her marriage to John (rather than being oblivious to it for the course of her marriage) and that will allow opportunities for the actors and other creative professionals to show it *visually,* which is something a show needs in a way that a book does not.
The book’s theme that you can love two people in one lifetime might be stronger if we see it play out while John is still alive, to a degree. This is something you can do on an ensemble show but that is harder to pull off in a novel that focuses so closely on two characters.
And to state the obvious, diversity is the lifeblood of this show and if they hadn’t had a queer relationship in one of the seasons it would have felt out of keeping with the Bridgerton brand. I did think it would be Benedict, not Francesca, who would get the same-gender romance, and I will miss Michael from the book, but I’m still looking forward to the Francesca season.
Sirius: I have not read that book, although of course I read about it a little bit when I was reading about the reactions to the finale. So again just to be clear, IF I had read the book and became attached to it, I would have been very annoyed about this storyline. However as it stands, I just really do not care about Francesca, I did not care about her before the cousin ever showed up in one of the last minutes of the season. Besides me feeling her being annoying to her mother, I found her explanation for leaving to Scotland bizarre. I mean of course she should go with her husband, but they could not go to the closer estates so her family could visit occasionally?
I mean I get that introvert that wants some peace and quiet and had lived with her seven siblings all her life would have wanted some distance, but man, first of all how many siblings left in the house that would even be able to visit? Gregory and Hyacinth? And nobody is saying that she has to stay in their house.
Janine: You left out Benedict and Eloise. Still, I agree the motivation wasn’t a strong one. I would have liked it better if John had to leave to oversee his estate in Scotland and if Francesca went there too because she didn’t want to be apart from him. I have to make a note though that Francesca wanting some space from her family was established in the book too to an extent.
There is something else I wanted to ask you about and that is what are your thoughts about the fate of Lady Whistledown? For me Julie Andrews’ narration is a vital framing of the narrative and adds so much. I would hate it if it went away. At the same time, I think if Penelope continues writing these gossip columns, she won’t be able to be nearly as biting or pointed now that everyone knows she’s the person behind the pen name. There will be consequences in real life. Surely that will rein her in?
But I really, really, really do not want Lady Whistledown reined in. I feel that she and the queen are the two sources of satire this show has and without them it would lose its meta quality and be a far more basic thing. I’m not sure I would be as interested in that. I almost wish Penelope would let someone else take over the role of Lady Whisteldown.
Sirius: Almost every character annoyed me in this second part of the season and I agree about Julie Andrews’ narration. That’s another reason why I am almost sure I will pass on the next season.
I read most of the Bridgerton books back in the day (I think I bailed on the series before Gregory’s book). Colin and Penelope’s story was my favourite. I haven’t seen any of the TV show but reading this discussion was kind of hilarious. Quinn’s writing is pure modern American Regency fantasyland stuff, but the series sounds even less tethered to reality.
@oceanjasper:
I’m going to steal this as it’s perfect to describe so many of the books I see being released now. Someone once described Quinn’s writing as “piffle but lovely piffle.”
I haven’t read the books and only have Shondaland’s interpretation to rely on. Lady W’s voice is crucial, imo. I hate that the public knows she’s Penelope and wonder if that was true in the book. Talk about strangling her wit and satire and power.
Contemporary English law is very strict about libel, slander, defamation — whatever we call it. Did Book Penelope use actual names in her Lady W columns? That seems almost impossible, but what do I know?
@Darlynne: It’s been eons since I read the books but I think she stuck to the convention of referring to people as (for instance) “Lady R” or “Mr. G” but I could be wrong.
Book Lady Whistledown named names. And she retired at the end of Pen’s book.
I enjoyed season 2 but not enough to watch season 3. Especially because TV Colin seemed like a complete drip in season 2. So I’ve been enjoying your reviews.
I might watch Francesca’s season now that I know that it’s Sapphic. Although I don’t love the idea of her getting swoony over her husband’s cousin while he’s alive. Part of what made her book work, I thought, was that she didn’t expect to find love a second time. And that she loved her husband and was oblivious to Michael’s feelings.
I’d been curious how they were going to handle her first marriage – in the book series I think she got married during a time jump between books and is hardly mentioned until her actual book.
@Jayne: I love this too :).@Darlynne: In the show she used her name in the very last commentary of the season. Julie Andrews’ voice changes into Penelope’s and she “signs” her letter as Penelope Bridgerton.@Cleo: I do hope season four works for you because as I mentioned right now I am not feeling very enthusiastic about it :(
I disagree with much of this. I wasn’t a huge fan of Colin prior to season 3, but I loved Penelope and I really do think the actors did a great job with what they were given. I wished for a bit more of a grovel from Colin, but it still worked fine. While I’m bummed that they did away with the Whistledown persona and therefore the Julie Andrews narration, she’s at a pretty advanced age and it was probably better for the show runners to take control of this now and ease the show out of that mode.
I should say that what I did love about the show in season 1 was the way the hair and makeup had fun pushing against the constraints of the factual time period, but this season it was full on instagram glam and Hollywood waves on some characters and it kept taking me right out of the show.
I’m a little sad about the changes to Francesca’s story. When He Was Wicked was my favourite (and my first) of all of the Bridgerton books and as it deals with infertility it has an even more special place in my heart (let’s don’t talk about the second epilogue which ruined that storyline). It’s not that I have a problem with a sapphic story – I just would have liked it to have been Eloise instead. (I know we have already met Sir Philip but still.) Michael is my favourite of all Bridgerton heroes. Like you Cleo, I was disappointed that the show depicted Francesca falling immediately for Michaela rather than the other way around and that her love for John seems to be platonic rather than passionate. I think it changes the story so much to show things that way. One of the things that was so good about WHWW (among many IMO) was that it showed Francesca had two great romantic loves in her life. It seems that is not going to be the case in the tv version. Between that and the gender-swap, it won’t be the same story – I’ll have to approach it as something entirely new and completely divorced from the book when the time comes.
I am a little concerned because some of the things in the show have not been handled well and I’m not sure how they will handle the queer romance. My fingers are crossed though!
@oceanjasper: What was the humorous part? It is indeed even more of a departure from history.
@Darlynne: I agree 100% re Lady Whisteldown’s narration.
@Cleo: I vaguely recall that it was more like Lady B___ and Lord D___, that kind of thing, in the books’ scandal sheets.
I think Francesca’s season is going to be very different from the book and like Kaetrin, I am going to approach it as a new story, maybe about another Bridgerton daughter with the name Francesca, LOL. But Julia Quinn said that the show’s producer promised her that Francesca’s deep love for John will remain part of the story.
I agree that one of the best aspects of the book was that it showed that you could have more than one great love in your lifetime. But does Francesca need to be clueless / indifferent to Michaela during her marriage for that to work? I’m not convinced of that. I think people can be in a terrific, loving marriage and still be attracted to others.
BTW, whether or not the next season is about Francesca and Michaela, or about someone else, I recommend watching it if you want to watch Francesca’s season because I’m betting there will be a lot of setup. I think the writers sent Eloise to Scotland with Francesca and John in the season finale so that Francesca would have someone to talk to about her situation and dilemmas.
Also, Benedict accepted his bisexuality this season. He is still scheduled to be paired with Sophie, from what I read, but I know that you like queer m/f romances, so I think it’s possible his season might interest you as well.
@Kitty: Re. Julie Andrews, that sounds about right in theory, but actually it turns out they are trying to keep her on the show.
https://www.glamourmagazine.co.uk/article/julie-andrews-bridgerton-season-4
I’m not sure they should have outed Penelope. Maybe she could have just shared the truth with the people closest to her? Or been outed but not until the last season? I think they’ll have a hard row to hoe now.
@Kitty: That’s so true re the hair and makeup. I mean I loved the queen’s swan wig but Penelope Coughlan could have been time traveling from the 1990s or 2000s, as far as her hair and makeup in some of these scenes.
@Janine: My concern with John/Francesca was her very underwhelmed reaction to his wedding kiss. It seemed to me this was meant to show that Francesca was/is not physically attracted to John. Aro/Ace folks (and its *possible* Francesca is on that spectrum but I’m far from an expert on this topic) exist of course but the more likely explanation is that this was the beginning of Francesca realising she’s gay. All of that changes her love story with John to be platonic/companionate and that the sex they have would be out of duty rather than passion. That’s a huge change to the book and of concern for those of us who are book fans. Who knows, maybe they will retcon it or it was a case of bad acting or something and things will be different in her series though!
@Kaetrin: Hmm, I assumed Francesca was bi. I thought her storyine with John was romantic and they made a cute couple. I do think, however, that the writers were trying to highlight the fact that while Francesca loved John the kind of sexual desire that sparks between her and Michael/Michaela wasn’t there in her first marriage. But I thought that was subtly implied in the book too. In the book Francesca and John had a very loving marriage and Francesca enjoyed sex with him but it didn’t compare to sex with Michael. You can love someone deeply (and romantically) even if the sexual sparks aren’t that strong.
@Janine: I had to look it up. I don’t have any of the original Bridgerton books anymore but I still have the two Lady Whistledown anthologies that Julia Quinn did with other authors and in those books, Lady W names names. And I vaguely recall that one of Lady W’s distinctions is that she named names instead of using initials.
@Janine: I like your interpretation of Francesca with John and Michaela. I hope that’s the direction they go in the show.
I have not watched the second half of season three and I doubt I ever will. I have always felt that the actor playing Colin was completely miscast and the first half of the season confirmed it for me. Also my favourite book of the series was when he was wicked. I loved Michael as a character and I just can’t get behind the gender swap to Michaela so I think I’m done with this series completely. If I wasn’t so familiar with the books I would feel differently but it’s very hard not to compare the two.
@Bronte: I totally get that. I haven’t read An Offer from a Gentleman so I can’t say anything about how Luke Newton matches the Colin in the books, but I don’t think he’s a good actor and his chemistry with Pen was nonexistent. I liked her a lot so I feel she deserved someone better. What did you think of Lord Debling? I would much rather have had him.
I wasn’t a huge fan of this season but I am looking forward to Benedict’s and Eloise’s seasons. I think Benedit’s season will probably come before Francesca’s but Francesca will come before Eloise.I only read two books from the series (The Duke and I and When He was Wicked) but I understand why some of the people who read the books don’t like the changes. It’s often the case with book to screen adaptations generally, even without a gender swap.