EC has obviously treated its authors badly and sales must reflect it when some of there best and brightest authors leave.

The readers miss out when the series they have been hooked on – Wizard Twins, Oath of… and Trek (why not finish this Jaid Black?) for one reason or another never seem to get finished.

And – Im not sure why having read about the awful conditions they have been writing under, but I think some of the writers who have left wrote some of there best books under Ellora’s Cave.

The reason for my post though is to say this is a great blog and I have learned a lot from it.

Lora Leigh, Angela Knight, Diane Whiteside, Kate Douglas, Cheyenne McCray, Sarah McCarthy, Delilah Devlin, Shiloh Walker, Lisa Marie Rice and several others are now contracted with big New York houses. Your best bet is to visit their respective websites to keep up to date (Lisa Marie doesn’t have a website though, so she’s tricky to track). Others moved to other epublishers or are mostly published by other epublishers i.e. Stephanie Burne and Kate Hill you can now find at Changeling Press. Treva Harte (co-owner of Loose Id is, of course, publishing her books at Loose Id). Louisa Trent can be found at Loose Id as well.

EC does not have a good track record with a good deal of their former authors. I will not go into detail as the story is long drawn, it has sub-plots, and is not mine to tell.

New Concepts Publishing doesn’t edit the work of their authors. This is widely known and if memory serves, they are clear about this in their Submissions page. I do have a couple of autobuy authors there, namely Jaide Foxx and Kaitlyn O’Connor, but their books are not exactly examples of good editing though they are not godawful, all things considered. However, a lot of people are not willing to buy their books for that reason. Additionally, they have been known for unprofessional and borderline unethical business practices, which created a lot of issues for them, and my guess is that they are now keeping a low profile for that reason.

Samhain Publishing has high standards, has an excellent reputation, and is a good one to check out. Their erotic romance line is named Red Hots! Though they have very hot romances in their other romance imprints.

Liquid Silver Books and Amber Quill Press have been around for over 5 years so they are quite established, and both have good stories and put effort into their editing. They are a bit hit or miss for me though, but worth looking into.

Bottomline, you have many options out there, and you can still find your former EC favorites, but published by big NY houses or in other indie epubs. It’s a matter of looking around a bit.

My Opinions

Samhain Publishing is the best all round quality at the moment

I go to Changling Press and Loose Id for the more outragous but fun books, more ‘out of this world’ crazy ideas etc – both companies have good editors.

Torquere Press and MLR Press and Dreamspinners are my favourite M/M publishers.

Liquid Silver is a company that is quickly growing and I have some authors from there I have started to collect. New Concept Publishing are very high quality in their standards for books and I have some awesome authors that I read from there, they however dont advertise much and arnt as well known in the epub world (I think its the name LOL those of us that know it call it NCP but this doesnt help people looking for new epubs)

hope this helps, Check out Samhain it will blow you away compared to EC now :)

Mainstream publishers like Berkley offer some pretty spicy books (Maya Banks, Lauren Dane, Anya Bast, Beth Kery all write for Berkley Heat).

Hope that helps. If you have more specific tastes, maybe we can do a better job at recommending books/epubs to you.

I do have to agree with other readers, I have noticed that my fav authors (Jaid Black being one of them) are not being published on a regular basis. I’ve given up on Trek series. Now the most important factor is WTH did all the good EC authors go? I need a new ebook site to buy from!

@Tanya
“Then it went on to reviewing. My two cents worth, if a reviewer finds errors in a book, that reviewer needs to contact the publisher before posting the review.”

I’m still almost convinced you had your tongue in cheek when you wrote that. I’ll pretend you didn’t have your usual morning drink at the time because otherwise, you wouldn’t suggest it. Let alone entertaining such a crazy concept of having a reviewer doing an (presumably, paid) editor’s job.

“There are far too many reviewers out there doing it for the sake of a free read.”

Free read? Oh, please. Let’s see…

A) It takes two to three hours to read a novel and perhaps another hour to sort out notes that were made during a read.
Maybe an hour to write a draft review and roughly two hours to knock the draft into a (hopefully) readable review. Half an hour to format the review along with a book cover image and the details on where to purchase a copy.
Then, after publishing the review, two or three days to deal with initial responses, questions and feedback from readers.

Three days and few hours’ worth of work, for a “free” book? Give me a break.

B) Authors almost always benefit from reader reviews in terms of publicity and promotion, especially when a typical reader reviewer has a good, working relationship with regular readers who know or trust her reviews.

“As mentioned before, most of them are not professional reviewers, but merely readers.”

I’ll tell you what I think makes a professional good reviewer: an ability to offer some good and honest constructive criticisms of a novel while respecting a fact that reviews are for readers, not authors or publishers.

Authors write stories with readers in mind while writing in a way that suits them. Reviewers write reviews with readers in mind while writing in a way that suits them, too.

It’s true there are some bad reader reviewers that do it for “free” books, but they tend to be the ones that authors and publishers love. I wonder why.

I think speaking up is a matter of personal preference. At the time you think is right, when the topic is essential for you, and at a place you think you will be heard. If you have issues with your publisher that are important to you and you think important to others (other than “I don’t like my editor because her hair is blue”) you have a right to bring them out publicly. It’s your experience. You can’t worry about what anyone else thinks.

:-)

The only question I have is regards to when is it a good time or place to speak about your bad experiences. So many times I’ve come up against “you’re unprofessional” for saying MY experience was bad. When is it okay to say it? Where is it okay to say? How many authors were saved during the Triskelion (sp?) fiasco because someone was “unprofessional” and spoke up. This is the only gripe I have. You’re either applauded or black-listed.

I’ve stayed silent and sat on my hands on this issue for over 300 posts,

Eh, I’ve sat this out, too, Jaci and I was quite happy doing so.

I don’t know jack about orders, yadda, yadda yadda so really, I’ve got nothing to add to much of this discussion.

For the most part, I’m pretty much happier seeing how things play out first.

I don’t have any desire to join in on either a cheerleading session or flip it around and do a lets’ roast EC session.

However, on this bit, I gotta echo Jaci and Lauren here.

I continue to write for both EC and NY houses WITH NO CONTRACT ISSUES.

That, right there, should call into question the validity of some of the comments being made on these recent blog posts.

Personally, no. I have not had issues with EC.

Personally, no. I haven’t had any bad experiences with EC.

My contracts with them haven’t ever caused me issue. My agent has reviewed them for me and hasn’t seen any cause for concern. But these my personal experiences and this circles around my particular contracts-which are customized for me.

However, just because I haven’t had problems, or you haven’t had problems, doesn’t mean other people haven’t had issues. Legit issues. Viable issues.

Are some of these cases here exaggerated? Possibly. Even likely. But that doesn’t mean all.

We all have different expectations and goals with our careers. Things that may seem inconsequential to you could be a major road block to another and it’s incredibly arrogant of you to feel that just because YOU haven’t had a problem means nobody else could/should/would.

Unless you’ve been in their exact situation, looked at it from exactly where they stand, including their personal likes, dislikes, expectations, disappointments…etc, basically BE that person, you can’t expect others to live by your standards.

I imagine you’d wouldn’t like somebody else telling you what standards and expectations you should have in life.

Others don’t like to have it done to them.

And lastly, in regards to this…

Finally, for those who are going to immediately make cheap shots at *my* anonymity, let me explain why–it’s because I have this bad habit of acting professionally…

Try it on for size.

I’m sorry, but the shame on you tone of your post pretty much blows your attempt to act professionally out of the water. Where the shame on you didn’t blow it out of the water, the posturing did the rest of it. You can’t tell others how to view things, what they should and shouldn’t do and still be viewed as acting professionally or fairly.

I think both of you answered everything I would of said. I thought ”just saying” was a little crazy for thinking cause her experience with EC are perfect that means everyone else is lieing.

I think there is FAR TO MUCH being said by MANY authors for it to all be a mass conspiracy and a LIE….

And as for the attack on Jaid’s personal life, while I’m not hugely interested in her, she DID open herself up to critisim…..and as for the DARE about us talking about a NYT editor…

I mean give us a break, we would all do it in a heartbeat we would just all be ANONYMOUS :)~

Anyone that is famous or public figure opens themselves up to critisim, its just human nature….sad but true….

Thanks again to Jaci and Lauren

Publisher A submits contract to Author B. Publisher A submits contract to Author C. The exact same contract. Author A negotiates a couple points and is blissfully happy. Author C looks at the contract, tries to negotiate a few critical points, but Publisher A refuses to budge on some of those points. Those contract points are a dealbreaker and Author C walks.

What might make one author ecstatically happy could be a dealbreaker for another. Which I think is what just sayin… doesn’t understand.

Your premise is that you personally have no problems with the EC contract or EC in any way. Your Inference is that because you have had none and others say they have, the fact that you have had no problems means – conclusion – everyone else is lying because you have had no problems.

That’s simply illogical. The only thing you can say is that you haven’t had any problems. And for that, I’m happy for you. The issue here, is that you state that everyone else’s experience should be questioned because of yours. That’s stunningly ridiculous.

Your assertion that X doesn’t happen to anyone else because it never happened to you is either totally naive or purposely blind. I’ve never been hit by a car when I crossed the street but it happens to other people every day. I’m not questioning your experience any more than I’d question the experience of any other authors who’ve posted here. Each one of us has different objectives and goals in our careers.

For example: I’d never, that’s right, never sign an option clause for an epublisher. You would and that’s fine. I happily sign my NY option clauses because I receive something EC does not give – an advance. An advance means they’re giving me consideration in advance for the world I’m creating. They’re paying to lease part of my future, EC doesn’t do that and so they wouldn’t get that right in return from me. Options have not one damn thing to do with respect. Respect means I turn my books in on time, that I respond to correspondence in a timely and professional manner and that I make my book the best I can.

Options are not about respect, they’re about leasing a future right to something. Rights are about money for both parties. That’s a logical business choice, no more or less valid than yours. But your career is not mine or anyone else’s. Choices you would make are not choices I would make.

Do not think to extrapolate out your experience as a generalization. There’s a very big difference between personal experience and general circumstance. That doesn’t make you more professional, by the way, not any more professional than attacking other authors and calling them liars anonymously makes you more professional.

Not all houses work for all authors. Moreover, a house that may have been a wonderful place for a certain author at any given time may not be the best place for her later on. For a whole host of reasons you or I may not be privvy to. Any assertions that your experience (or mine, or Jaci’s or anyone’s) is the one true way and all others are invalid are simply stupid. Your experience is simply that, your experience.

I too am glad said author is happy with EC. Several months ago I would have been happy with them as well. BUT, their option clause stinks and they were not willing to negotiate any part of it. They were also not willing to negoitate their “rights clause” either. So, I decided to refuse the contract because it DIDN’T WORK FOR ME.

I continue to write for both EC and NY houses WITH NO CONTRACT ISSUES.

That, right there, should call into question the validity of some of the comments being made on these recent blog posts.

…..are you that naive? Really? You’re happy with EC, so therefore anyone else who claims to have issues is lying? Seriously? Have you drank that much KoolAid? Are your rose colored glasses a shade too dark? I mean come on.

I’ve stayed silent and sat on my hands on this issue for over 300 posts, but this one is just ridiculous. You insult every author with a legitimate issue with their publisher by stating that you’re happy and they’re full of shit. It’s great that you’re happy. It’s awesome that your publisher treats you great. Anyone who’s been in the publishing business for 5 minutes knows that it doesn’t always work that way, and things can change in 6 minutes. That a publisher will treat authors differently depending on the situation and how the publisher feels about certain authors.

I’ve had my ups and downs with EC. I choose to keep my issues with them private because its my choice to do so. But if authors choose to air their grievances publicly, then they have a right to do so. Someone coming along saying “I’m happy, so these other people must be lying” is the one who needs to take a step back and go to their happy place and leave everyone else alone.

If you want to come in and post that you’re happy with EC and leave it at that, then I think that’s awesome. You’re putting in your .02. But I think you went too far.

My take…

I have written for Ellora’s Cave a couple years now. I also have written for several other epublishers as well as print publishers during this time. I continue to write for both EC and NY houses WITH NO CONTRACT ISSUES.

That, right there, should call into question the validity of some of the comments being made on these recent blog posts.

I find it really disturbing that the authors in complaint are willing to reflect their irresponsibility on this publisher in such an unprofessional manner.

But first off, EC, if you are listening, there is one valid point in these recent blogs: YOUR PRINT PROGRAM NEEDS SERIOUS RETHINKING. From nonsensical book scheduling to poor customer service to not distributing through Ingrams, you’ve made bad decisions. Enough said.

I urge authors and readers alike to email EC directly and let their concerns be heard so EC can give this problem due consideration. EC is a company that is always growing and changing and I’ve no doubt they will once again strive to make their company the best it can be.

Now, per the badmouthing I saw on the Dear Author blog regarding Jaid Black’s personal life. For those that did it, I am ashamed for you. What inexcusable, immature behavior. It’s no one’s business what Jaid does with her life or her money. Do not judge lest you be judged.

And btw, I would dare, double dog dare, anyone of those blasting Jaid Black to so rudely do the same to any other prominent New York editor or publisher publicly. You wouldn’t, would you?

Why does Jaid and Ellora’s Cave deserve less respect?

A couple other points:

#1. Let’s talk about option clauses. An option clause gives the publisher the right to review your next book and make an offer. It’s about respect. You give your current editor first read. Does this mean you can’t shop the book? NO. Does this mean EC has the absolute right to buy books that fall under said option clause? NO. An author fulfills an option clause by allowing her editor to review the manuscript. The author must then decide whether to accept or negotiate a contract offer or outright reject it.

Point A: EC absolutely negotiates option clauses. As I stated, I happily write for more than one publisher.
Point B: Any NY publisher is going to expect an author to uphold her end of the contract and fulfill option clauses. If an author blatantly does not, I’ve absolutely NO DOUBT any NY house would take necessary action. For an author to ignore an option clause is absolutely unprofessional and very few NY authors would dare behave as such. It would be silly too—because again, it’s just a matter of letting your current editor read your material and make an offer if they so chose.
Point C: For those EC authors who’ve made claims to receiving cease and desist letters—good for EC! Please explain to me why, just because EC is an epublisher, you should be entitled to unprofessional behavior?

And there’s that word again. UNPROFESSIONAL!

And #2… The question of Ellora’s Cave selling/auctioning the print rights of books to other NY houses. Does anyone actually believe they did this illegally? That, for example, St Martin bought books from EC that neither had a legal right to? Uh, NO. The fact is, EC was fully within their rights. It was in the contract and the AUTHOR SIGNED AND AGREED TO THIS CONTRACT.

Now, let’s be clear about another thing—this isn’t some sort of new or unusual or shady practice. Big, NY publishers do it all the time. When I sell a print book, the publisher typically also takes rights to foreign books, hardcover editions, audio, possibly even movie rights, etc, etc. Does this guarantee my book will be a big cinema hit? NO. But it gives the publisher the right to sell it as such and believe you me, if they can make money, they will.

So why are these EC authors mad about the sales being made? Well, hmmm. Maybe they didn’t review the contracts they agreed to. Maybe, years later, they regretted signing away those rights. But sign them away THEY DID, even though it may be inconvenient. Even if, now that they are bestselling authors, they want their full rights returned. After all, who wants to split profits?

And maybe that’s what it’s all about. Yep, let’s get this straight. These authors are making a big stink over money, then badmouthing EC in the process and then calling them greedy? Ehem.

As for the issue of EC’s professionalism with authors. As far as I’m concerned, it’s a non-issue. Like I said, I’ve been with them over two years. Never had a problem. Have I always been happy with their decisions? HELL NO! Uh, that’s called life. I always keep my business relationships professional, so maybe that explains why.

On the other hand, I’ve certainly stomached my share of bad behavior from editors in large NY houses. Learned long ago it’s part of the business. Publishing is all about money. If you aren’t the current hot ticket, editors don’t hesitate to neglect and abuse you.

And that’s another reason I like EC. Hot ticket or not, it seems they treat all authors pretty much the same. No red carpet.

Maybe that’s really what this stink is about.

As for the Borders lawsuit, I won’t comment. Why? Because I don’t know the details or understand them. Doubt most of you do either, to say whether it’s right or wrong. Always a good idea, if you ask me, not to bigmouth about things you don’t full comprehend.

And the last thing I want to say? I make really good money at EC. I’m happy there, so readers, please do ME and numerous other authors a favor and don’t take your business away from a good publisher because of some authors acting badly. Every author has opportunity to review a contract, to get an agent, to negotiate, and to walk away. All these authors whining are whining about things they agreed to.

Even more troubling is how many authors and anonymous posters are publicly complaining about issues that aren’t affecting them directly, or in areas they have no business complaining about in such a public forum and yet, people are putting stock in what they say. So please, don’t.

Finally, for those who are going to immediately make cheap shots at *my* anonymity, let me explain why–it’s because I have this bad habit of acting professionally…

Try it on for size.

a) The last 5 books I have bought from EC that are from totally new authors to me have been poorly edited and the plots plain unappealing, I have stopped wasting my money on the risk of a new author.

b) I think its smart that you write for more then one publisher, that way if I find your books at another site I will go hunting for more of your stuff, This would be the only way I would risk buying your books from EC.

c) I think you sound a little bitter about the ”revered veterans” as you call them, this is a public blog and I makes me think less of you for giving them this title. They have proven their talent by the sheer number of fans they have. From what I’ve seen here, I think the ”revered veterans” would still be writing for EC if they hadnt been screwed over.

d) Remember most readers are LOYAL, I’m sure that you wish to one day have many people that love your books and would want to look after your best interest, especially if your treated badly.

e) On a personal note, I hope you have a long and successful career, but as a reader, I dont appreciate it when you make snide comments about authors I have spent years faithfully following.

I’m not some semiliterate hack. Ellora’s Cave policies and business practices and Ms. Engler’s personal life have nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of every EC author’s work. All this huffing over a company that has, justifiably or not, gotten some bad press shouldn’t have anything to do with a reader’s perception of a writer’s commitment to her craft.

Authors take their work where it is 1.) appreciated and/or 2.) can get the best financial remuneration. It’s that simple.

Ellora’s Cave isn’t my only publisher. But even if it were, you can bet I wouldn’t just be sliding smutty dreck their way. Sex-o-rific or deeply romantic or both, I take pride in my ECPI books . . . even if I haven’t been there as long as the revered veterans. And I guarantee most ECPI authors feel the same way.

Talent can crop up where and when you least expect it. Don’t write us off.