Your not so subtle jab at bi and lesbian m/m authors was just catty and bitter. You’re not a better lesbian, if in fact you are a lesbian, just because you write femmeslash. I’m an asexual, aromantic, genderqueer female m/m author. Sexual orientation, or lack thereof, has absolutely nothing to do with what one enjoys writing.

Where have I jabbed at lesbian and bi writers of m/m? The most I’ve done is speculate on why they would prefer to exclusively write stories about men over ones about women. If I’m totally off-base in that, they’re free to set me straight. The comment about “Chippendale dancers and hen parties” was out of one of their own mouths, not mine. How is that not a jab at straight women? I mean, she was basically implying she can’t relate to the average woman (and no, I’m not a lesbian) because all we care about is drinking coffee and blathering about babies and the PTA whilst marveling over the latest advancements in Tupperware.

I agree that people, regardless of their orientation, should write what they want. I believe readers and publishers should read and publish what they want. I have more than once on this thread expressed my pleasure at the success m/m is enjoying. And again, it wasn’t my intention to turn this m/m thread into the “Kirsten is living in a dream world, when will she ever learn no one likes f/f, she’s selfish to even ask for more of what she wants to read” thread. My initial comment was glib and obviously ill-advised to have spawned this. I’d pledge to restrain myself in the future, but somehow I don’t see myself living up to that kind of vow.

I get that you wish people loved it as much as you apparently do, but the facts are that it doesn’t seem that’s the case.

There are people who love it as much as I do. Not as many as love m/m romance, granted, but they are out there. But after being told time and again that “straight women do NOT enjoy f/f” [caps not mine] I imagine quite a few of them are reluctant to admit it. And since there is an ample supply of male-produced “lesbian porn” *shudder* already out there, maybe they can get their fix on that (I hate the stuff, but, hey, any port in a storm, as they say). I’ve had email discussions and forum conversations with enough of them to know they’re out there.

Will I shut up about f/f? Um, will the Erotica Cover Watch people give up their hopeless cause? I mean, the dearth of solo mantitty on the covers of het erotica is a marketing decision intended to be as inclusive as possible to the tastes of a het erotica readership: a lone female form is attractive to straight and gay women, and to straight men, and a m/f couple will appeal even to gay men, but a lone, sexualized male form will actively turn off a straight man. If those straight men are a large enough percentage of the target readership, those covers are going to stay as they are. Unless the BICEPS crew manages to convince straight guys to get turned on looking at other guys, that is. That doesn’t mean it’s fair, or that the ECW people should shut up and go away, does it?

Back to the topic at hand and please, please, please try to listen: I enjoy reading m/m. I enjoy reading (and writing) pretty much any romantic configuration, if it’s well written.

I think m/m romance in the regular romance section of stores is a wonderful idea. I think anything that furthers tolerance is a good thing. But I don’t only feel that way about m/m.

All these things chip away at the stereotypes and allow the notion of love, whatever the gender, conquering all. I like it and I think it is progress :)

Kate, I think I love you.

M/M relationships abound in erotic romance, often as sub plots or part of a M/M/F relationship-but it’s a start, and readers in my experience love it. And look at what Suzanne Brockmann did-took a gay character all the way through her best-selling series until he got is own HEA with another man.
When I asked my editor at Kensington Aphrodisia if it was okay for the two main male characters to get it on before the heroine even appeared, he was fine with that. She doesn’t appear until chapter 3 :)

All these things chip away at the stereotypes and allow the notion of love, whatever the gender, conquering all. I like it and I think it is progress :)

No offense taken :) It means I don’t feel I fit either gender really. I’m somewhere in a gray area where neither male nor female feels right to me. I present as a female, I am biologically a female but in my head and heart I don’t recognize myself as a woman, nor do I feel I’m a male in a female body. Sort of an undefined somewhere in between, with characteristics and traits of both genders a natural part of who I am. I’m pretty sure that’s closely tied to my asexual nature, as well.

My main point in bringing it up is that what a person enjoys writing has little to no correlation to their gender or sexual preference (in my case a lack thereof on both notes.)

(I don’t mean to offend, so I’m sorry if that’s a bad question to ask. I’ve genuinely never heard it.)

I get that you wish there were more, I get that you wish people loved it as much as you apparently do, but the facts are that it doesn’t seem that’s the case. Which pretty much means you can shout to your heart’s content and all it’ll get you is a sore throat. Supply and demand, hon, and your genre of choice has neither. That’s no one’s fault so how about you stop blaming everyone and their brother for it?

How are people supposed to publish and review and love something that you say yourself is barely written, and even less written well?

Also? Your not so subtle jab at bi and lesbian m/m authors was just catty and bitter. You’re not a better lesbian, if in fact you are a lesbian, just because you write femmeslash. I’m an asexual, aromantic, genderqueer female m/m author. Sexual orientation, or lack thereof, has absolutely nothing to do with what one enjoys writing.

Perhaps you could point out where on our website it says that?

This is my mistaken recollection, clearly – I thought I was told that around the time that you guys decided you would only take romance. I very distinctly remember being told that Samhain wouldn’t take f/f at this time, but where and by who, I don’t know, and obviously I’m getting it mixed up, and that mistaken memory is reinforced by the fact I never see any f/f coming through.

Once *again* I’ve managed to offend you, oh great editor. I’d apologise but I’m sure it makes no difference.

One you only reviewed because it was trans.

Uh, no. It was recced by a friend, I read and enjoyed and recommended. That tends to be how it works. If f/f fic is rare, do you have any idea how little trans fic I’ve ever even heard of? I reviewed it because I enjoyed it, and it fit in the remit of the site. I didn’t go, oh, I really must review some trans stories.

I wasn’t aware there was anything stopping you guys from actually buying a book to review. I was under the impression that it was more of a “community service” to borrow Angie’s term.

Only money and interest. It’s an unpaid job, Kirsten – Torquere’s a business. I run and manage that site on my own, including development, and pay the costs of the site – hosting and registration – entirely out of my own pocket. At the moment, with my husband out of work, that pocket is very empty. I rarely buy books I know I’ll enjoy – why should I lay money out for books I have no interest in, and have no knowledge of what is good? If you want to shove some books out way for review, you go ahead. I can tell you that your attitude of entitlement doesn’t inspire me to look for f/f.

If you want f/f reviews at UP, write them yourself. That’s what the site is for.

I do think that, as evidenced by the burgeoning success of m/m romance, being quiet and waiting for someone to read my mind and publish what I want is probably not going to work.

Neither is attacking the few outlets willing and ready to give your preference a voice. Torquere started their own press, for good or ill. If you believe in f/f that strongly, maybe that’s what you’ll have to do. M/m grew out of fanfiction. Its success owes nothing to fans clamouring or not, but to ex-fandom writers turning to original works, and others who have been quietly writing this stuff for years, suddenly being given a publishing outlet. In other words, there was both demand and supply. You’re describing a situation where the demand is small at best, and the supply is almost non-existant. Raging about the unfairness of one review site, or at one press deciding to take a business risk, won’t change that.

You need to create momentum, and I don’t believe your posts on DA are likely to create that because all it sounds like ‘Kirsten want, why Kirsten no get?’. No business can make a success out of what Kirsten want.

Come up with a thousand Kirstens, and fifty talented writers like K A Mitchell, and then you’re cooking with charcoal.

Speaking strictly as a straight woman who loves to read f/f, f/fm and actively seeks it out where ever I can find it.