So my only real comment echoes KZ’s – Denise’s story, like all of her work, is outstanding. And while yes, it has otherworldly elements, being an anthology, the central focus is the rediscovery of love between John and Meg, and their willingness to overcome the pain of the past. If you get a chance to read it, I think you’ll very much enjoy their love story. Like most of us in this industry, you might not get much time to read purely for the pleasure of it – that one would be a great choice for an hour’s escape!

Thanks again, and thanks for the interesting and thought provoking discussion of Unlaced!

I love Joey and Jaci’s writing. Now Joey’s very good at pushing me past my comfort zone and there’s been a few books of hers that were very hard for me to read, but I’ll still read this one.

That cover, by the way, makes me green with envy. Very, very pretty.

So, who else is going to read this when it comes out? Does Jane’s review change anyone’s mind?

I’ll probably end up reading it, because I’ll be buying it for Jaci Burton’s story (whose books I seriously heart).

Cassandra consents to these ventures but only after the fact. Like after she is bound in the boardroom, Lucas tells her that everyone in the room knows that she is bound and that she is sexually stimulated. I’m not sure how that is sexy. Maybe to some it is, but to me, it was stomach churning.

I find Joey Hill one of the most thoughtful, interesting authors in the BDSM genre. Her “Natural Law” series, set around a group of characters who visit the Zone club is fascinating, because it explores the characters and what motivates them. They’re real, and never do you feel that they’re being exploited, used or manipulated.

Not so in the story I read, “Board Resolution.” (part of the ‘Behind the Mask’ anthology). In this one, Savannah is suspended above the boardroom table and used by all the men. It is consensual, but she’s railroaded into it.
Maybe I didn’t like it partly because he uses their business deal to get to her and so demeans her abilities and her standing as a businesswoman.
She is helpless, she doesn’t know what’s going on, and he uses that helplessness to restrain her. She’s fastened into a machine, and gagged with a ball gag, which isn’t my thing at all, but because I enjoy Joey Hill’s work and I usually trust where she takes me, even if it’s beyond my personal comfort zone, I read on.

Honestly, I really don’t know why this story didn’t work for me. Perhaps because it uses humiliation as a theme, and for me, that’s a big hot button. I would love to understand why. It didn’t just not work for me, it disturbed me, and I rarely have that reaction to anything I read.

I won’t be reading this story, but I will definitely be picking up the next Joey W. Hill novel in the mermaid/angel series, and any more Natural Law books she writes.

In general, I don’t think that Joey Hill can write a badly crafted book, but I’ve read other BDSM books that included a male dom and a female sub and I didn’t feel it was demeaning to women, but this one read like the male dom was constantly humiliating the female sub under the guise of showing her sexual freedom. There’s a heavy overtone here that Lucas knows what is best for Cassandra all of the time. Lucas does not grow in this book because he is perfect. Cassandra is the flawed one whose uptight lifestyle must be set free by Lucas.

Cassandra consents to these ventures but only after the fact. Like after she is bound in the boardroom, Lucas tells her that everyone in the room knows that she is bound and that she is sexually stimulated. I’m not sure how that is sexy. Maybe to some it is, but to me, it was stomach churning.

Any time a reader reaction is:

I found it horrifying.

the story has failed on every level.

Well no, because people often find things horrifying that others don’t. I have a friend who’s just read her first m/m story – a rather insipid one of mine – and I said she should really try some of my less sappy stories. She was clearly hesitant at the idea of reading anal sex scenes. I’ve personally known feminists who’ve read joyful, fully consensual BDSM stories and coming away frothing at the mouth about rape and abuse. A single subjective reaction is not a useful metric for the success of the story for the audience as a whole.

That Jane’s familiar with the genre, and is still troubled, indicates a possible problem. Without reading the story, and knowing more about the presentation, I can only go on her review – and from that, I don’t think the author got it wrong per se. It could just be a trigger in Jane, or it could be poor set up and concept.

There’s a lot of crappy BDSM writing around (and I’ve created some of it!) I don’t rule out the possibility of this being more of it, but I’d need more than Jane’s reaction to label it as bad.

Is it really so different from any other kink fantasy?

I’d have to say yes. Any time a reader reaction is:

I found it horrifying.

the story has failed on every level. This is regrettable because surely the goal of the author was to make the kink accessible to the readers who are not in the scene.

As for other scenarios that are unrealistic, such as lack of lube, etc. sure I’ve winced on more than one occasion, but I’ve rarely ‘hated it’, said it showed ‘overweaning paternalism’ or found a story ’stomach turning’ except for the few BDSM stories I’ve accidentally stumbled across and quickly put down.

That strong a reaction is especially notable, as Jane has enjoyed other BDSM stories by Joey. Jane, do you think that might be because those were male sub/female dom story lines?

As for the target audience – a lot of people, me included, find BDSM hot to read about without wanting to engage in it.

I wasn’t talking of target audience as people who engage in the lifestyle, rather that the anthology was not specifically BDSM which many people like to read without wanting to emulate.

You know and understand what BDSM is all about. I was talking about the audience that may not have any idea about how important sane, safe and consensual is to the lifestyle and it seemed to me that the lack of the conveying of those concepts were at the core of Jane’s issues with the story.

And if somebody like Jane, who does know, has such a strong negative reaction, I have to wonder how successful the story can be for others. Clearly, the consent and the sub’s motivation was not sufficiently articulated to make the story work.

Quite honestly, I was surprised to see a ‘D’ as grade, because after reading the review I expected an ‘F’.

So long as Cassandra consents in heart and mind – as we the reader will know from her POV – then we know the difference between what’s actually happening, and an abusive situtation.

But do we even get her POV? The impression I got from Jane’s review is that the story is told from Lucas’ POV.

It seems to me that BDSM is a topic in erotic romance/erotica that deserves very careful placement in front of the knowing readership, not an unsuspecting one, who does not know the shortcuts and gets a completely skewed view of the lifestyle and its participants.

Is it really so different from any other kink fantasy? I mean, you get unrealistic scenarios all the time in erotica which, if played out in real life, would lead to injury or a bad situation for the people involved. A few weeks ago, Jayne mentioned double-cocking as something which needed more negotiation than shown in the text. The amount of insufficiently lubed anal sex – het and m/m/ – you read, is simply eye-watering.

There might not have been a vocal negotiation on screen in this story, but as Cassandra, I assume, isn’t complaining and isn’t not enjoying it, then her consent is clear to the reader. Again, it’s the fantasy of the master who just ‘knows’. There are plenty of doms around who genuinely don’t negotiate with their subs, and subs too stupid to complain – but I don’t think you can hold the writer of erotic fantasy responsible for that. She’s not writing a ‘how to’.

As for the target audience – a lot of people, me included, find BDSM hot to read about without wanting to engage in it. I don’t think it needs to be completely realistic. So long as Cassandra consents in heart and mind – as we the reader will know from her POV – then we know the difference between what’s actually happening, and an abusive situtation.

Which leaves us with an audience that either reacts like Jane (and as I would and why I get physically ill if I start reading that kind of story because I didn’t know that it was that kind) or with a readership that gets the idea that that’s what BDSM is solely about: humiliating the sub for the enjoyment of the dom, demeaning women, reinforcing the idea that women are children who need a man to teach them what they need and want, because they can’t possibly know it themselves.

I’m a translator (among many other things) and one of the first rules of translation is the question ‘who is your target audience?’. This question informs every decision that affects the translation.

It seems to me that BDSM is a topic in erotic romance/erotica that deserves very careful placement in front of the knowing readership, not an unsuspecting one, who does not know the shortcuts and gets a completely skewed view of the lifestyle and its participants.

As much as I logically (if not emotionally) understand how and why a good dom/sub relationship works in RL, I’m baffled by the popularity of the BDSM stories I’ve seen that are not describing sane, safe and consensual practices but strike the reader as Jane describes above.

If, in this story, Lucas and Cassandra have a discussion and she consents to his Dominance (she doesn’t even have to consent to everything he does individually, just a single “I accept your dominance over me” would suffice to cover everything that comes after), then okay, I’d have no problem with it, because Ann is right, in that case Lucas would be being an excellent Dom. Without her consent…it becomes just what you read it as, demeaning and controlling and not sexy but stomach-turning.

But as BDSM fantasy, it sounds pretty good. Hot, actually.

The thing is, the fantasy has to be real but not real in this kind of erotica. It’s like the forced seduction scenario – within the universe of the book, you accept it, and the controlling hero etc, even if in real life, you’d run a mile.

BDSM can weird people out – and I speak as someone outside the scene, though I’ve done my best to educate myself by reading and talking to people inside it. It can look like abuse, and everything we as feminists and adult women have been told to reject. But within the ‘game’, so to speak, the rules are different. The main rule is consent (Safe, Sane, Consensual – the consent is the difference between assault and erotica.)

Cassandra in this story is consenting (I’m assuming.) Lucas really *is* serving her, and anticipating her wishes and desires. He’s being a stereotypically good dom. To a sub, a master who will know what they want without even needing to be told, who will go to so much trouble, to care for them, is wonderful. (To the dom, it’s a lot of work!) Within Cassandra’s universe, she’s not being objectified (nor is the Japanese woman) – she really is being worshipped, and treated like a queen.

Not easy to get your head around, but the only way to do that is to enter the mindset of a sub. Which is not easy at all if you’re not that way inclined.

There is one scene in which they bind Cassandra to a chair during a conference call with Japan and there is a set of Japanese men with a woman bound to a chair in the videoconference and the camera that is piped to the American’s office is of the Japanese woman’s bare pussy.

Watch the books fly off the shelves after that description.

I really hate stories that heinously objectify women in this way. I would have been seriously pissed off, but then again, I do hate BDSM themes, so perhaps I’m biased.