I’m very picky about who I read in erotic romance. While I love erotic romance, for me, the romance has to be every bit as much of the story as the eroticism, and I don’t find that all that easily. Too many stories have as much sex as story (or more) and that doesn’t work for me. Characterization gets lost, the plot is thin, etc.

Just putting a couple of people together and having them have sex every chapter, through in some thin plot where they get mad, then make up in order to have more sex, and then all of a sudden tack an I LOVE YOU on the end doesn’t make a book an erotic romance, but it’s too often what I see.

Totally droppin’ the ditto on Shiloh here (I know. I am so hip, with my slang; 23 skiddoo!).

Every sex scene in an erotic romance should show the relationship growing and changing. Every. Single. One. And not just the relationship growing and changing, but how it grows and changes, and why. The sex scenes should be integral to the romance, not outside of it, and certainly not interchangeable. (That’s not just a matter of different positions or whatever, either. You should be able to read a scene from the beginning, and a scene from the middle, and a scene from the end, and know just from those scenes what the relationship between the two people is at the point in the book where they take place.)

The way they touch each other should change. The way they look at each other should change. What they say. What they do. The language the writer uses. Are they more or less tender? More or less daring? How have they changed? Writing good erotic romance is the ultimate test of Show, don’t Tell; if you can’t convey through the sex scenes how these people feel and what they think, and are just shoving cookie-cutter sex in and sticking a contrived happy ending on because you think that’s all it takes to make an erotic novel an erotic romance, or because you think “erotic romance” is easy to write…well, you’re wrong. (Note: I assume the rules for sex scenes are similar in straight erotica, but in the ones I’ve read the focus seems to be more on the heroine experiencing new things and opening herself up to erotic possibilities; she’s not necessarily really growing or changing as a person so much as she is growing and changing as a sexual being; it doesn’t always make her a stronger, better person. But it could be the ones I’ve read simply aren’t as good as they should be, so don’t quote me on that.)

If nothing in the relationship grows or changes during a particular scene, don’t write the scene; even in some of my hottest books I had the occasional “They fell on the bed…”-type line and then the next scene started. Nobody ever complained. :)

To put it a lot more smoothly, the sex in an erotic romance should contribute to and expand the relationship of the characters (while arousing the reader, yes). It’s not just there for sex’s sake.

Juno has never called its line “paranormal romance”. Yes, we did one anthology in 2006 (our second release) titled “Year’s Best Paranormal Romance” that included a lengthy introduction explaining the use of the term “paranormal romance” in the title. That book, however, was categorized as “fantasy” as are all Juno titles.

The anthology series was re-titled “Year’s Best Romantic Fantasy” for the second volume in spring 2007 — partially to avoid references like this one.

IMO, the mere presence of the word ‘erotic’ in the book’s marketing materials, or on the book’s cover, should be enough of a tip-off to the reader that the contents of the book are sexually graphic. If such content offends you, don’t buy the book.

This is just my opinion here, but it seems to me the issue is more of books being labeled erotic romance, when they are more straight erotica with romantic sub-elements or just nothing but a bunch of sex scenes endlessly strung together with no thought of plot.

I’m very picky about who I read in erotic romance. While I love erotic romance, for me, the romance has to be every bit as much of the story as the eroticism, and I don’t find that all that easily. Too many stories have as much sex as story (or more) and that doesn’t work for me. Characterization gets lost, the plot is thin, etc.

Just putting a couple of people together and having them have sex every chapter, through in some thin plot where they get mad, then make up in order to have more sex, and then all of a sudden tack an I LOVE YOU on the end doesn’t make a book an erotic romance, but it’s too often what I see.

Then there’s the flip side of labeling a book as erotic romance when it’s actually just a hot and sexy story. The typical mainstream romance can be very hot and sexy, but that doesn’t make it erotic.

It’s more about defining and understanding the genre so it’s correctly marketed and not so much about whether or not an erotic romance is offensive.

edited

It isn’t about need, it’s about misrepresentation in order to scoop up sales, in order to scoop up those sales from another market. In order to exploit the success and the readership of that market.

It’s not about level of sexuality, it’s about whether a book is accurately labeled.

It’s very easy to say don’t buy that line or publisher again, but it doesn’t get to the core issue. Misrepresenting a book in order to sell it to readers who are looking for something else.

We’ve all heard the saying: “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice? Shame on me.” To me, this is a ‘vote with your checkbook’ issue. If readers feel that certain lines falsely and consistently misrepresent the contents of their books, don’t buy another of that line’s books. If the product doesn’t meet your needs, don’t buy it.

Complain to the publisher. Make your opinion of their product known, in no uncertain terms. If publishers don’t respond to expressions of concern on this issue – if you as a reader feel that the publisher deceptively labels their books to maximize sales – don’t give that business your money. Hit ‘em in the wallet, where it hurts, and transfer your dollars to those lines who label or categorize their books in ways which meet your needs as a reader.

But please recognize that not all readers have that same need. Thanks.

As to your value judgment comment, I don’t appreciate it, but I’ll leave it at that. You based your assessment on a post that you did not understand.

If such content offends you, don’t buy the book.

That decision is denied to me if the book is labeled wrong. Sure, I could page through every romance I buy to confirm the content is what I want but that defeats the purpose of the label.

IMO, the mere presence of the word ‘erotic’ in the book’s marketing materials, or on the book’s cover, should be enough of a tip-off to the reader that the contents of the book are sexually graphic.

The key word is not “erotic.” The key word is “romance.” The Romance genre is about successful romantic relationships. I’d love it if publishers marketed porn and erotica openly, frankly, and blatantly. The problem is that they don’t. They want to sneak it [and other things :( ] in under the Romance genre umbrella as a marketing strategy.

Why shouldn’t such material be openly, frankly – and yes, “blatantly” marketed? IMO, the mere presence of the word ‘erotic’ in the book’s marketing materials, or on the book’s cover, should be enough of a tip-off to the reader that the contents of the book are sexually graphic. If such content offends you, don’t buy the book.

There’s nothing wrong with blatantly marketing erotica as erotica. What’s wrong is to market it as as (erotic) romance when it doesn’t have a relationship at its central core and a HEA/HFN, which was the whole point of the discussion.

I don’t want to read erotica I want to read erotic romance. I’m not offended by erotica I just don’t want to read it, and not buying it is hard when it’s mislabeled.

One person’s porn is another person’s mild kink.

IMO this is because we stubbornly try to define ER by the *amount* and *type* of sexual content, not by the *purpose* it serves in the story. IMO determining ER should be about *structure* and *function*. First, structure: are all the elements of a Romance present? Is there a central love story, does the story focus on the emotional journey of the lovers to a happy ending (HEA or HFN)? Then, function: does the sexual content help move the love story forward? Does it help articulate the character development? If the answers to all those structural and functional questions is “yes,” then IMO it’s ER. If not, then it’s something else, which must be determined by a separate itemization.

That said, I think Ellora’s Cave does a great job of categorizing its books in ways that tip the reader off to the book’s content: by theme (for example, Gay/Lesbian, Rubenesque), and by Genre: (for example, Quickie / Menage a trois or More / Contemporary). EC used to have a ratings system that indicated each book’s ‘hotness’ scale (S-ensuous, E-rotic, and X-treme) which I don’t see on the website anymore, but I used to find this helpful.

i.e. erotica and porn being blatantly marketed as erotic romance.

Whoa. “Porn” being “blatantly” marketed as erotic romance? Oh noooes! How dare they! Ahem. Sorry. I feel there’s just a little bit of a value judgment sneaking in here. Like I said above, your porn might be my tame erotica. Why shouldn’t such material be openly, frankly – and yes, “blatantly” marketed? IMO, the mere presence of the word ‘erotic’ in the book’s marketing materials, or on the book’s cover, should be enough of a tip-off to the reader that the contents of the book are sexually graphic. If such content offends you, don’t buy the book.

I’d heard 30k as the absolute high-end cut-off for Kensington too.

I’ve had NY editors tell me they prefer 25-30k for novellas, but 35k is acceptable if the story needs it.

BTW, me likey the new template, too!

Actually 35k sounds a little long for a Berkley antho. Standard, to my knowledge and in my experience with Berkley, is 25k. A little over probably isn’t an issue, but ‘a little’ is a couple thousand words, not 10k.

That was my thought as well, Shiloh. I’d heard 30k as the absolute high-end cut-off for Kensington too.

Either way, I still don’t have a problem with an erotic publisher rejecting a book as not sexy enough.

I think for me, Kimber Ann and GrowlyCub gave the best definitions.

I don’t read m/m or f/f and I’ve read a small handful of threesomes. But that’s just me. However, those that I did read managed an HEA and to me, the journey from the getting to know each other to the HEA, the relationship and the growth involved, is what constitutes the romance, regardless of how many or how few sex scenes there are.

And I can’t remember who said it, but yes, I get totally pissed off when I buy a ‘romance’ only to find out it’s something else entirely. There is an author I read who I really enjoyed, whose books were romance, classified as such, marketed as such, and were in fact, romances, all in a series but each had their own HEA. Suddenly, I pick up the next in the series and WOW! Out of over 350+ pages, less than 100 were devoted to the H/Hn even though the book was marketed as the next in her romance series. Turned out to be something completely different. So, that was the end of that author for me!

What it ends up being for me is, if you market the book as romance, it better have the relationship first, the HEA second and no matter how much sex, it all needs to make sense and be well written or it’s not romance. To ME! That doesn’t mean others agree with me. But it’s how I’ve always thought it to be and expected it to be.

FWIW

This issue has been ongoing for years. This is not new by any stretch of the imagination, and actually, it is because of this that the management team of the newsletter I co-own actually put in black and white a definition of what erotic romance should be over four years ago. As more new epublishers opened their doors, the more the lines were blurred, and in our opinion, abused i.e. erotica and porn being blatantly marketed as erotic romance. I even wrote an article for the newsletter on the subject about five years ago. More recently, we had a series of articles in which we discussed this subject as well as the issue of lack of editing quality in erotic romance ebooks.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is that the issue is not new. However, I am very glad to see that more people are noticing and being vocal about this. Since blogs are now highly popular, in some instances having more foot traffic than reviews websites, and since now the issue has been taken by at least one very popular romance related blog, I hope this means that publishers will have a harder time trying to sell any sort of erotic fiction as erotic romance, in the belief that romance readers are stupid and will buy whatever just because it is labeled “erotic romance”.

As to what erotic romance is, yes, it is a highly subjective matter. However, as I said above, my team managed to come up with a definition that works for us and gives some uniformity, making the reviewing task easier. That definition also gives room for some romances that even though are not classified as erotic romance, are considered to be hot enough to be at least borderline so it pretty much filters out the non-romances, and allows some room for highly arousing romance books that could interest erotic romance fans, and yet could end up being overlooked by fans due to their not being labeled as erotic romance.

Regarding the amount of sex in an erotic romance, an erotic romance doesn’t have to be filled with sex scenes for it to be arousing, however, whatever sex is there HAS to be BLUNTLY GRAPHIC. That’s one of the reasons why erotic romance is not for everyone. Of course, it is a publisher’s prerogative how much sex they want in an erotic romance. But if any editor out there is reading this, bear in mind that for a true erotic romance fan, it’s the quality of the sex scenes, how well they are written and arouse, rather than how many there are. The sex overload is mostly fancied by those new to the sub-genre, but eventually the fan will seek quality rather than quantity… and that is how you will keep the fans coming back for more. I’ve lost track of how many reviewers have quit my newsletter because they just got tired of so much sex and the lack of good stories in a lot of the erotic romance now available. Please do not overlook the characterization and the plot, an erotic romance is nothing without those extremely important elements.

35k is a very odd length for a NY house.

Sounds like an anthology for Berkley or Kensington. I can’t think of another NY publisher that regularly puts out anthologies.

I was curious about the rejection because after the reading the comments, I thought the ms was rejected because of insufficient NUMBER of sex scenes, rather than not enough sex. The former I can’t agree with because I’ve read ER with two sex scenes, but they were drawn-out and steamy so the book definitely qualified as an ER. The latter is completely understandable.