Filed under: Reviews
Back in June or so, some bloggers formed a group blog called DIKladiesrule. It’s a fun place that features interviews with authors and alot of book chat about the bloggers’ favorite books. About late June, Dear Author started a feature called “If You Like” based upon the shelftalkers at bookstores. It came to my attention last week that Laurie Gold was unhappy about the use of both phrases because we did not give proper attribution to her site, All About Romance. But, really, I thought nothing of it. It did not seem like a big deal to me.
On Thursday, Laurie put up a post on her personal blog frustrated that she and AAR were not getting the proper attribution for the term DIK. If You Like was left out. Feeling like she hadn’t gotten enough responses, she then posted at the AAR board. She did not gain universal support there either. Not leaving enough alone, she is now asking for a web campaign to drive other bloggers and sites to dun the DIK ladies into . . . something. This is my response, since Laurie feels like this issue is important.
***
“What’s wrong?” Her flatmate said, peeking her head up over the sofa. “Another wallbanger (tm unknown)?”
“Yes! How many TSTL (tm AAR discussion lists) heroines does it take to change a lightbulb (tm Edison)?”
“Five, if they are sisters,” Greta joked. “What about the hero, though, isn’t he alpha (tm unknown) enough? I saw the clinch cover (tm Fabio) and there was plenty of mantitty (tm Smart Bitches).”
Before Mary could respond, a knock sounded at the door. Greta hauled herself off the sofa and walked over to open the door. Another knock sounded before Greta could reach the door. “Hold your horses (tm unknown),” Greta shouted through the wood and steel.
Another knock sounded and a muffled voice stated “Attribution police. Let us in.”
“The attribution police!” Greta gasped with such violence that her bodice ripped (tm Non-Romance Reading Public). “But…sir…we haven’t done anything…(tm Barbara Cartland) I swear!”
“Open in the name of the law!”
Mary stepped around their towering TBR pile (tm romancelandia (tm unknown)). “Let them in, Greta,” she said. “We have nothing to fear.”
Greta held back another gasp as she opened the door and six feet four inches of lean, hard muscle (tm Romance Authors) strode into their flat, followed by a second male, whose rippling six pack (tm Budweiser) was apparent even through his uniform shirt. “What is the problem, officers?”
The second officer’s piercing blue eyes reminded Mary of a vengeful Italian billionaire’s (tm Harlequin) she’d once known. Unfortunately, she hadn’t gotten her HEA (tm Cinderella) and Care Bear (tm American Greetings) epilogue (tm Mrs. Giggles) full of precious babies named after their grandmothers (tm Stephanie Meyer). She just hadn’t been enough of a Mary Sue (tm Star Trek (tm Paramount) fanzine (tm unknown) readers), she often thought. If she had been, everyone would have loved her, and as a bonus, she’d have had purple eyes (tm Elizabeth Taylor).
“We’ve received a complaint, miss,” he said. “A complaint about how you’ve named your flat.”
“Oh.” Greta relaxed. “You mean the name we’ve put over the door. We’ve read so many romance novels, talked about so many of them, naming our ‘estate’ in a way that demonstrates our love for the genre seemed like a fantastic idea.”
The gorgeous officer smiled condescendingly. “But you’ve named it ‘DIK Court.’”
“So? It’s about the romances we like best. A DIK is a keeper (tm unknown) book, the kind you’d want with you if you were stuck on a desert island (tm unknown) — you know that classic question? So, they’re desert isle keepers, get it? It’s a word that is all around the Internet (tm Al Gore), or at least in romancelandia. Just like TSTL, HEA, OMGWTFBBQ, LOL, and TBR. It’s shorthand that anyone familiar with the community knows.”
“Yes, but do you know where it originated?”
Greta shrugged. “I just saw it used around blogs (tm unknown) and message boards. I asked what it meant, and someone told me that it was one of those books that you just can’t bear to part with.”
The officer turned to Mary, his gaze stroking her from head to toe. “And you?”
“Maybe the All About Romance (tm AAR) site, because I’ve seen that they call their A-rated books and favorite books Desert Isle Keepers (tm AAR), and for a long time they were one of two romance-centric websites.” Mary said.
“That’s exactly right!” The officer gave Mary a cookie and another smoldering look (tm Rhett Butler). “Laurie Likes Books — LLB — first used the term in an At the Back Fence — ATBF — column in 1996. Yet you have been using it as the name of your house without permission or offering due credit to the history of the term. So LLB has issued a complaint, and has demanded that you either cease and desist in your use of DIK or inscribe a line into the front of your house that explains the term’s origin and gives AAR proper credit.”
Mary and Greta stared at him. Mary repeated, “Inscribe a line that says LLB coined the term and that it is historically ‘owned’ by AAR?”
“Yes.”
Greta began giggling (tm teenage girls). Seeing that her friend could not help, Mary challenged, “You’re kidding me, right?”
The ruggedly handsome officer scowled, and got an erection that a cat couldn’t scratch (tm Linda Howard.) “No.”
“But you don’t have to give attribution for words and phrases. Those aren’t copyrightable.”
”No, but there’s still trademark law, ma’am.”
”No, no!” Mary protested heatedly, and wondered if he could smell her arousal. “I’m saying the words that you are trying to enforce for attribution are so common. “
“But, Officer, we’re just fans, reading fans, and just trying to enjoy our books. Plus, Google? Srsly (tm Urban dictionary)?”
“My name is not Srsly and yes, Google. Google is now the affirmative source of all attribution. The first source that shows up on Google is the source who owns the term. That’s internet law.”
“Srsly is shorthand for . . . well, forget it. That’s not important. If you put DIK into Google, there are thousands of references to DIK from thousands of different sources. And, the reason that one blog post shows up before someone else’s blog post in Google Search results is dependent on so many things, including popularity. Can popularity equal ownership?”
The handsome officer scowled at her. “Don’t try to confuse the arguments with the facts. That’s not important here.”
“What is important then? It’s not as if we’re a journalistic site. We’re just two fans of romance who love talking to people about the genre, inviting authors over to our place, and generally having fun.”
“It’s a morality issue, ma’am.”
Mary placed her hand on her hips, arms akimbo. “Are you questioning my morals (tm God and/or gods)? Because I can promise you, big boy, that I have no morals.” Mary paused, looking the officer up and down. She could bounce a quarter off that hard body (tm unknown), she realized. “Why don’t you come inside,” she suggested throatily, “and tell me more about your…rules.”
”Please don’t give me any backchat, ma’am, or I’ll be forced to restrain you (tm Marquis de Sade).”
Mary shuddered, “You promise?”
The officer’s eyes narrowed dangerously. “You don’t seem to be taking this very seriously.”
Mary unflinchingly met his dangerously narrowed eyes. “You would be right on the money then, because these words and phrases that you want certain people to be given credit for have become part of the everyday lexicon in romancelandia, and to parse out and give attribution for the use would make it nearly impossible to have discourse.”
“Uh, but–“
“I’m not finished,” Mary interrupted. “I think it’s great that someone coins a term and that term becomes commonly used that it is actually part of our everyday language, or raises a term out of print obscurity into online fame, but that person isn’t entitled to attribution for every use, not legally or ethically. At least, in my opinion.”
The officer stared at the feisty wildcat, his sensuous mouth hanging open.
Mary cocked her hip and tossed her hair back over her shoulder. “Once you’ve gotten over that problem, handsome, why don’t you come up and see me some time (tm Mae West)?”
***
Btw (tm unknown), I checked and both DesertIsekeepers.com and desertislandkeepers.com were domains available for sale. And I bought them.
Nice one the Al Gore there- but my favorite? The Barbara Cartland shout out! Spot on, Jane. I also don’t think I’ve read enough (any) Linda Howard b/c that reference weirded me out.
Oh and I feel like “akimbo” should’ve gotten some sort of “tm” too. ;)
I feel like “akimbo” should have gotten a shout out, too.
The whole situation is rather ridiculous, IMO (tm message boards?)..just as this post suggests.
*snort* If you’d have had them drinking Sprite (tm Coca-Cola) and eating Big Macs (tm McDonald’s) we could have charged money for this. ;D
Seriously, if this is the only thing people have to worry about, I sure wouldn’t mind trading lives with them.
::cough::
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desert_Island_Discs
I think the BBC popularized the term ‘desert island…’ somewhat earlier than anyone mentioned in this ‘debate’.
As is oft pointed out, it should be ‘deserted’ island anyway.
I casually date the concept of the desert/deserted island book back to Robinson Crusoe, lol, with much use of the term, in various forms, during the intervening centuries. But even if DIK has become associated with AAR to some degree, does that automatically create a proprietary interest in the term and all of its variations? As Jane suggested, opening that door invites in all sorts of potential dilemmas, double standards, and competing claims of ownership. And as for all the legal stuff about trademark, etc., well, I wonder if a phrase like that could even have passed the threshold requirements for trademark (phrases can’t be copyrighted), which include a very high level of distinctiveness and participation in, well, trade.
IMO the saddest thing about this is that Laurie’s posts read to me as if she feels that the value of AAR is diminished somehow by the existence of this other blog. And that’s so sad, because nothing external to AAR can diminish its value or its substantive, long-term contributions to the Romance community. I know Laurie’s feelings are hurt (although I think her proprietary claim is shaky at best), but I think she ironically belittled herself and AAR by taking things so far, and IMO she didn’t need to do that to highlight the unique contributions that AAR has made, which IMO are not at all reflected in a term that I think has extremely common origins.
Heeee!
no No NO, Jane…you’re supposed to copyright the term “Desert Island Keepers” and then send a C&D letter to quit using your property, since it doesn’t fall under fair use *g*
I’ve noticed in the past that Laurie is incredibly protective of AAR and hyper-sensitive to any slights against it both real and perceived.
I absolutely agree with Robin. I don’t think anyone aware of the birth of the online romance community would deny AAR’s foundational role. But it’s because of that history I find these public airings of hurt feelings so odd. But to be charitable to Laurie, maybe it’s just hard to recognize that AAR has matured as a concept and website and she doesn’t need to be so vigilant about protecting it anymore.
I meant to add, I loved the Linda Howard shout out(tm TRL?)!
Absolute silliness. This sounds like a fourteen-year-old getting mad because her best friend decided to try a side ponytail too.
I don’t like the petulant tone LLB has taken, but then I don’t like the tone of AAR. It’s a website, not the Oracle.
Interesting post. I don’t particularly like how Laurie’s handled everything, but I’m not so sure that I agree with this either.
It seems to me that it’s not that DIK has become associated with AAR, but that Laurie/AAR coined the phrase. Whenever I think DIK, I always think of AAR. And that’s coming from someone who didn’t even know there was such a thing as an online romance community (or DIKs) until a couple years ago and hasn’t visited AAR’s site more than a handful of times since then.
And it’s not that the idea behind a Desert Isle Keeper hasn’t been around for awhile. However, whenever I (or most people, I’m sure) got involved in these sort of discussions it was phrased as “If you could only take x amount of books with you on a deserted island, which would you take?” I never had a “What are your Desert Isle Keepers?” discussion. And that’s because that phrase is distinctive.
I’m certainly no IP attorney, and I guess I don’t entirely understand the parameters of “common use.” Does a phrase become common even if it’s only used within a specific community? Because I certainly wouldn’t say that it’s become so common as to be part of everyone’s (i.e. anyone other than a reader/blogger/reviewer/author of the online romance community) every day language. For example, I would never hear my dad refer to the latest David Weber novel as one of his Deserted Isle Keepers.
And while it’s true that Google isn’t the be all and end all of attribution, it is interesting that a google search of “Desert Isle Keeper” (with quotes) shows more than an abundance of results attributing the phrase to AAR. It may be commonly used now in the online romance community, but it’s commonly used as a phrase coined by AAR.
I guess the only reason why I posted this is because I do feel uneasy that a group of experienced bloggers would use a phrase that is instantly recognizable because of AAR. My unease with the DIK blog name (which I didn’t know about until now) is that I find it very hard to believe that these bloggers didn’t know exactly where that phrase derived from. I would be very surprised to learn that they all just saw it on some discussion board somewhere.
Jane, you reble rouser you -
Personally, I can’t see getting worked up over this. I have other issues that are currently taking precident in my mind (oh I don’t know, the economy)
The desert(ed) island concept may have been around for ages, but “Desert Island Keeper” is something I associate with AAR. In fact, when I first came across the DIKLadies blog, I thought IT was associated with AAR in some way, until I took a closer look.
Even if you think she’s overreacting or being silly…what would it hurt the DIKLadies to acknowledge AAR? Or to have at least replied to Laurie. Laurie may not have gotten so public about the whole thing if they’d taken the time to communicate with her when she first emailed them. IMO, the DIKLadies have acted just as silly as Laurie.
I have been online and aware of the romance community since about 2003. Of course I’ve also stumbled upon the term DIK, especially and foremost on the AAR site itself. As an English non-native speaker, I always assumed that DIK (desert island keeper) was a commonly used term/abbreviation like, say SUV (sport utility vehicle), BOB (battery operated boyfriend) or TBR (to be read). I have little knowledge of how copyright/trademark law works, but the “R” next to Ellora’s Cave’s term “Romantica”, for example, always conveyed to me the meaning of ownership and legal rights, while DIK appeared to be an everyday average word that AAR simply integrated into their grading system and thus made it popular. As someone above mentioned, AAR has been around for ages and distinctevly influenced our perception of romance. Frankly, the blog entries and forum discussion demonstrated again, at least to me, why I prefer other sites and blogs to AAR. As probably 99 out of 100 online romance readers associate the term with AAR, what better mouth to mouth advertising for AAR could there be? I am sure Q-tip, Kleenex and Cola don’t complain on their blogs about people loosely using their brand names (of course, nobody named a blog after them). I also have to agree with Robin who linked book and island with the tale of Robinson Crusoe. AAR defintely made the phrase famous, but the idea of it is probably much older.
Brava, Jane! What a great post. You were dead on with almost all of them except I would think this one has to be tm too?
(tm some obscure law enforcement agency)
:-D
You know, I would think, if people are using a phrase of mine (and really, unless one has proof positive that they were the first ever to coin the phrase, one can’t really ‘own’ it, can they?) I would take it as flattery and a nod to my site. Certainly not as someone trying to steal something that, because it’s floating around in cyberspace, really no longer belongs to anyone.
I might be wrong, but the whole thing is just silly. And frankly, I had no idea what DIK was. I had to keep looking at it until I got farther into your article so I would have never known who ‘originated’ it. I’m pretty sure the question, “If you were stranded on a desert island, what thing(s) would you want with you?” has been around a lot longer than the internet. I sure have and remember hearing it when I was young. So how does one ™ that?
Well done Jane. Very funny.
Being familiar with the Desert Island Discs concept, and having seen offshoots of it elsewhere (i.e. Desert Island Movies), I didn’t give the blog a second thought. It’s not an original concept at all. There’s one word changed. I suppose there is some merit to LLB’s argument that she coined those particular three words put together in a phrase (I need coffee). But it’s a variation on a theme.
They definitely should not be proprietary over “If you like…”
AAR is an amazing resource. Don’t sweat the small stuff
Come on. I like AAR, but I think it takes a monumental amount of ego to assume ownership or invention of phrases that seem rather common.
Desert Isle Keepers — okay, if you drop the capitalization, doesn’t the theory of this phrase date back to books like Robinson Crusoe and The Swiss Family Robinson?
If You Like — twenty years ago my local library started a feature with the very same title and concept, except it was pre-Internet, so instead of being emblazoned on a blog or website, the title was splashed across posters, handouts and bookmarks. Should the library system now get its nose out of joint because AAR uses the phrase? I don’t think so.
I don’t think DIK is proprietary but I just think that Laurie wants recognition since her site is one of the firsts to generate a romance community. And just for the record, TBR Challenge is tm since I put those three words together. *JJ*.
Loving the whole Linda Howard cat scratching, such a great book and a once a year re read. Totally smexin (tm manga readers/youth).
I want to add that in spite of how many time Laurie Gold insists that TSTL started from her site, it originated from the old YAHOO Prodigy Romance board in the early-mid 90s when Laurie was popping in and out there advertising about her review site then. I remember well her long posts telling us about the topics being discussed at AAR.
The YAHOO Prodigy Romance board had the best mix of authors and readers, all of whom discussed romance books and issues much like DA and AAR are doing today. Its members consisted of many wonderful authors, such as Anne Stuart, Shirley Hailstock, and Jennifer Greene, etc., who advised and joked around with many beginning writers as well as romance fans. We used terms such as TSTL, Keeper Shelf, TBR Pile, etc. back then. I still mourn its passing. I feel the authors who used the Prodigy service back then were definitely a different breed from today’s bloggers and posters because of the newness of the Internet Community.
Read this three hours ago. Still laughing.
Hit sent too soon and the revision button is missing. ***sob***
I wanted to add that Jane’s little writing scene was so good she should put it up on the Sat. first page review ;-). Thanks for the morning laugh, Jane.
do you want flowers or champagne for all the times I failed to acknowledge you for this?
*hurriedly trademarks Desert Island Chain Keepers, which shall heretofore be known as DICK* our motto being “if you don’t know great books, you don’t know DICK”. also trademarked.
Was that part of the CompuServe forum, Gennita? I think I remember that. I do think that AAR is a valuable part of the romance community and Laurie and AAR were groundbreakers (along with others) in the formation of that community. But AAR’s greatness does not reside in a few letters or acronyms.
And I took out the edit feature because it was causing the page to load to slowly. I am looking into alternatives.
I remember the term Desert Island Keeper used to describe books we love at my High School Library back in the late seventies.
So should AAR be signifying Piedmont Hills High School for that attribution or should we all realize that librarians have probably been the single point of inspiration for most of these book related phrases for years?
Jane, no it wasn’t part of Compuserve. I needed to edit YAHOO (and other stupid typos) out because…(tm Cartland) I don’t know why I added it in front of Prodigy. Prodigy was like Compuserve, one of the few service providers available back then. Their BB/forum board used a software with a paging feature that couldn’t be upgraded in 1999 and they did away with it and started the new sort of BBS/PHP type board we see now. No one went back. I was there to the bitter end ;-) when it finally shut down at midnight, saying goodbye to so many wonderful authors who dispersed and never returned. Wahhhh. (Which, btw, is why I love DA because the comaraderie here reminded me of those good old wild days)
Yep,yep Teddypig.
Oh, excellent, Jane! Absolutely spot on. I didn’t know you had gotten feedback on the “If You Like” feature, which libraries and bookstores have been doing for years, long before the internet (as someone else pointed out, I hasten to say before I am accused of stealing proprietary stuff).
I responded to Laurie’s post on the AAR board and pointed out that Desert Island Discs had been going for over 50 years when she “invented” the DIK. So it doesn’t seem farfetched to think that the blog appropriation was similar to her appropriation, i.e., not an invention but an adaptation. As Robin and others have pointed out, the *idea* goes back at least to Robinson Crusoe. But she completely ignored the point to focus on some secret emails that prove, at least to her, that they intentionally copied AAR. She also seems a bit muddled about fair use, but I don’t think there’s much point in continuing the exchange. This is about her hurt feelings and her need for everyone to recognize and explicitly validate the overwhelming importance of AAR, and I think this attitude has become stronger as AAR becomes more of a first gateway to web romancelandia and less of a necessity to long time readers and surfers. I am very grateful to the site, but I’m not building a shrine in my bookcase to it next to the DIKs ™.
Frankly, I think this whole issue is ridiculous. As Teddy Pig pointed out, it probably wouldn’t be difficult to prove that DIK was used well before AAR came into existence. As long as DIK is not a trademarked phrase, I don’t see that there is a problem with a blog using it.
As for the TSTL phrase, I remember using this years ago, and that was well before I discovered the online romance community.
Just to address the “If You Like” mention (since I edit this feature at AAR) - I twittered back to Laurie right away that this is pretty common usage among librarians (and books stores), and this cleared things up.
I have NEVER, nor do I NOW, associated that phrase with AAR. And, while I now associate the acronym DIK, with the DIK ladies blog, I don’t associate the phrases “desert isle keepers”, or “deserted isle keepers” exclusively with them either. It’s a phrase that’s been around forever– even before the internet. You know, kind of like SNAFU.
BTW, I am declaring that I coined the term EARGASM to describe Phil Gigante’s narration of the KMM HIghlanders audio books. Henceforth, I expect all uses of the word EARGASM to be attributed to ME!
Well, if we’re laying claim to things, I want credit for the term “insperotical/insperotica (and any variable spellings thereof)” should someone ever decide to write one and publish it in that genre. In fact, maybe I’ll throw aside editing and write one now.
insperotical/insperotica
Why do I see tons of references to passages in Psalms and the whole Garden of Eden thing will be involved?
Then I lay claim to coitus interruptus which I first used circa 1998, for Pet Peeves (TM Prodigy Romance Readers Boards). I have printed-out discussions from the Prodigy Boards to prove this, so there ;-P.
Signed,
Internet Pack Rat/IPR (TM Gennita Low)
Then I lay claim to coitus interruptus which I first used circa 1998, for Pet Peeves (TM Prodigy Romance Readers Boards). I have printed-out discussions from the Prodigy Boards to prove this, so there ;-P.
Signed,
Internet Pack Rat/IPR (TM Gennita Low)
To be honest, Laurie of AAR drives me away from her site with these rather silly arguments. She always seems to be causing one rather petulant controversy or another.
Gennita — I think coitus interruptus is (tm Onan.)
Oh, Sarah, that brought to mind another saying that’s been around since before the internet… DRAMA QUEEN.
You know, the phrase “Like a fat kid loves cake” has been around forever. But I assert that Karen Scott has been given exclusive rights to its use in the blogosphere. Seriously, how many of us say “With apologies to Karen Scott” or “As Karen Scott would say” before we use that phrase now? Jane, is there an international legalese term for granting rights because the use is so closely identified with one person?
we haven’t done anything…(tm Barbara Cartland)
*SPITTAKE*
Podigy was nationwide by late 80’s early 90’s. I’m pretty sure I had an account about 89-90 and I loved the romance board. It was the first time I realized that romance writers actually thought about writing in a serious way (through a discussion of the problems with Whitney, My Love)– I just couldn’t figure out why so many of the books I ran into didn’t reflect their thoughtfulness. I also remember Diana Gabaldon posting about her time travel historical novel having been accepted for publication. It was a fun time and place.
But that is all OT.
I personally associate the initials DIK with AAR but the concept of the Desert Isle Keeper and maybe even the term– don’t remember for sure, has been around for longer than I have. Ogden Nash who died in 1971 wrote a poem about which book he would choose if he was stuck on a desert isle and could have only one. (It was an Agatha Christie mystery because by the time he reached the end he would hav forgotten how it started.)
I am not an AAR reader. I believe I have visited it only a few times because of a kerfluffle that was linked to there…
while the acronym may have coined.. The IDEA certainly wasn’t.. Since I remember even back in the 70s, the term “books you would take to a deserted island”….
So keep your DIK… I will use DICK (tm Emmy)… Or I will just talk about BIL (books I love)…
I heard rapper 50 Cent use “like a fat kid loves cake’ long before Karen ever used it.
And since he wrote those lyrics, I imagine he copywrote them as well.
BTW, I am declaring that I coined the term EARGASM to describe Phil Gigante’s narration of the KMM HIghlanders audio books. Henceforth, I expect all uses of the word EARGASM to be attributed to ME!
Yeah, well I coined the term Fugasm… which refers to someone who dresses so horrendously over the top that its art…. See Kelly Wertzler(a judge on Top Design, my newest obsession)…
yes, I a person who rarely wears anything other than jeans and a tshirt, loves to look at really BAD fashion (I don’t feel so bad that I spend an average of 200 bucks a year on clothes, money don’t buy taste)… completely OT(tm ????)
Meljean, see, I don’t know Onan. I swear I thought that term up one day, dammit, so the phrase “coitus interruptus” is petulantly mine. Mine, I say!
*weak with laughter*
“…so I bought them” Ha ha ha!
HAH! Gennita, back in junior high (waaaay back in the dark ages of the sixties) we were taught that “coitus interruptus” was a form of birth control.
More recently, I have used the term to describe JR Ward’s handling of the Butch/V relationship.
Quick question, Is the AAR Reader’s Poll coming up or something?
Then I’m claiming the term *coinus interuptus* which would describe the state of my finances..
“coinus interuptus” Ha ha ha! Oh, that’s so good!
I’ve been using online services since 1984. Like Gennita, I’m sure I remember those terms being thrown around on much older email lists and message boards, WAY before AAR. I don’t think AAR has any claim to those terms at all.
I’m sure “feisty wildcat” should have a tm. Judith McNaught, perhaps?
But coining a phrase means inventing it, and I think it’s been made clear that she didn’t *invent* the phrase, no matter how much some people in the Romance community might associate it with AAR.
I’m not going to begrudge Laurie her hurt feelings. When she starts talking about trademark and Fair Use and copyright, though, I start to get itchy, in large part because she seems to be using legal principles to create this “historical ownership” concept she’s presenting. Which, as Gennita’s example of TSTL demonstrates, rips the top off a very big can of worms — for Laurie as much as for anyone.
I mean, I remember not that long ago seeing the term “Romance shorthand” being used over at AAR, a term which I have been using for at least a year now and which I didn’t see anyone else using before me. Does that mean I can claim historical ownership of the phrase and should discourage anyone else (especially at AAR) from using it? That was part of Laurie’s lament, after all, that she didn’t seize a more formal ownership of DIK sooner (assuming she could have registered a trademark for the phrase, which is a process requiring a phrase to meet certain requirements). If you start down this road, can you imagine the ridiculousness of trying to talk about anything, let alone the hostility that would erupt as people try to protect “their” phrases (or argue over who really “owns” what)?
OTOH Laurie insists that it would have been courteous for the DIK bloggers to acknowledge AAR, but there’s another kind of courtesy that comes in recognizing the public ownership of particular phrases (dare I say the public ownership), especially phrases in which two-third of the words are instantly traceable to other sources (as is the concept of DIK), within public communities. Do we tm the terms “participatory democracy” or “the marketplace of ideas” or “Romancelandia” or “if looks could kill,” etc. etc.? Also, if DIK really is that recognizable, then people would not fail to associate it with DIK, even at this new blog, right? And isn’t that what frustrates Laurie — that AAR is somehow being diluted through this other blog, that its uniqueness is being dishonored?
Should the DIK blog have formally recognized AAR? I don’t know — that’s a separate discussion, IMO, and one that would require the balancing of a number of considerations.
As it stands I’m surprised that more people haven’t come out of the woodwork to claim rights to phrases commonly used on AAR. I wonder if TRR has a beef because Laurie left there to create another Romance site with a three letter acronym (or any other features that might be similar). Maybe readers who saw that original post on her blog didn’t respond because, like me, they felt a little embarrassed for Laurie, not for her sense of hurt, but for the lengths she went to in publicly addressing it and seeking remedy.
I still love AAR, although not as much since the board format changed ( the discussion have lost some of their energy/verve since the change),
But…. (TM Cartland) this all seems a bit too much ado over not much (nod to ole Will). A single blog post by Laurie, pointing out her hurt/concern, would have been enough. I also get the feeling this has (a lot) to do with a concern/fear that AAR isn’t as dominant/relevant in the online romance community as it once was. But, really, AAR’s rep will not rest upon due attrition of an acronym.
Gennita, I first came across coitus interruptus on the eharl boards, just thought it was one of those witticisms that crop up on the message boards. Not surprised to hear you came up with it. (Was Prodigy affiliated with Compuserve? I used to lurk on Compuserve big time.)
Although, I *recognize* ‘like a fat kid loves cakes’ as one of Karen’s favourite sayings (along with ’sucks big hairy donkey balls’ and ‘I can’t be arsed’), count me as another one who primarily associates it to rapper 50 Cent.
Totally forgot the edit button is missing.
That should be that I don’t *enjoy* AAR as much since the change in format.
*Attribution* of an acronym, not attrition.
Someone help me…
Every time I see this book title, I don’t see the “n”. I know it’s bad. I am a sad person, and I need help.
Back on-topic: I think I’ve been to AAR once or twice when someone sent me a link to a discussion there of AA books. Haven’t been back. Had no idea DIK was associated with them, as I’ve seen that phrase all over the place.
I coined the phrase “Savage Gate”, and I did have someone attribute it to me. Do you really think I’d flip out if someone used it without letting folks know I coined it? Not really. Now, using whole paragraphs of mine…
I use other phrases too: “blow my skirt up” (tm Marilyn Monroe’s white dress) “hack my cheese” (tm all cheese cutters) and “life’s a bitch–and then it has puppies” (tm-who knows the first part) I’m not going to get my nose out of joint (tm Owen Wilson) over people using those phrases, especially when the idea of those phrases were inspired by something/someone else.
Re: 50 cent using a phrase that has become synonymous with Karen S. Outkast used “shake it like a Polaroid picture.” I’d posit that more than half the people who downloaded that song don’t know who or what Polaroid is, but those of us who do know you had to sometimes shake a Polaroid to develop it faster. Polaroid created it, but it’s now forever associated with “Hey Ya.” I’m sure Coca-Cola wasn’t happy with the nickname for cocaine either, but what can they do about it?
Tsk, tsk for assuming that this could all be a publicity stunt, TP.
I mean we can at least see why she would be hurt by this but I disagree with her methods in making a website acknowledge her historical use of an acronym that doesn’t require attribution. There’s more going on here besides crying foul about lack of attribution. It seems (to me) to be about respect and AAR’s place in the romance community. Maybe she feels threatened by readers blogs like DA providing another choice for romance readers to congregate and discuss books.
Ok, this is my curiosity asking, but does coitus interruptus have a special meaning where romance is concerned? So far I have known the term only in a medicinal context as described here: meaning that it’s an unsafe and nowadays rather oldfashioned method of contraception.
OMG, Seressia! I do the same thing with the name of that book. I have this mental quirk where I often misread stuff that I see out of the corner of my eye — usually with hilarious results — and that book nearly always got a “WTF??!” out of me when I passed it on bookshelves.
Yeah, and I’m probably going to be doing it again in my Monday Access Romance Readers Gab post, lol.
I wanted to ask, why does “akimbo” need attribution?
Well, it just seems like so much to do about nothing. I am sure other people have used the whole Teddy Pig name before because there is a type of Guinea Pig called a Teddy. So you get Teddy Pig so even if I made it up a quick check would correct that misunderstanding.
Same as people have been talking about things they would take to a Desert Island like forever.
Why is it the only time I even hear about Laurie is when she is busy promoting her site by ripping on someone else’s?
BevQB - Did you come up with “eargasm” before Outkast rapped about it? ;)
I don’t think I’ve coined any phrases. I feel so left out.
Jane, I love you.
Kiwi Sarah, I love you too. *smooches*
So you don’t think AAR’s greatness lies in a few letters or acronyms though you do acknowledge (as do others here) that those acronyms were made commonplace within the online community by AAR. You decided what’s important about AAR but perhaps it means something else to Laurie? I just can’t believe you have taken it to this level of mockery. If you’ve read Laurie’s message board posts on AAR then you read this:
Does that mean she can claim copyright infringement? No. But it does give her reason to feel some hurt.
I’ve got a sick feeling in my stomach at the pettiness of your whole post but this topped it.
Wow. Just wow. And though it’s trite and will be pounced on by other commenters, I can honestly say that I won’t be back here again.
If you guys knew my taste (and distastes) in music, you’d know how funny it is to think I would have heard music from either of those sources. Although, as I pointed out earlier, I have heard the fat kid/cake saying for years and years before Karen used it.
But, in any case, Jen, I am claiming ownership of EARGASM because 1)- MY use was the first time I ever heard it, so any prior uses don’t count and 2)- I created the definitive use of the term.
So sez I. ;-p
Fiordiligi said-
“Ok, this is my curiosity asking, but does coitus interruptus have a special meaning where romance is concerned? So far I have known the term only in a medicinal context as described here: meaning that it’s an unsafe and nowadays rather oldfashioned method of contraception.”
I’m wondering about that one, too. The phrase coitus interruptus sure as hell wasn’t coined by anyone living today.
“I wanted to ask, why does “akimbo” need attribution?”
Don’t know about that, but that word always makes me laugh. There was a time when it must have been mandatory that “akimbo” be used at least once in every Harlequin romance, particularly the Presents line. The same goes for the requirement that the hero have a “wide, mobile mouth”.
Actually Laurie did try to use a legal foundation to form the basis of her “ownership” and I don’t find that to be accurate (nor her claims that fair use is only for temporary purposes). The point of the post is that there are so many terms that have become part of the ordinary course of discourse that it is not possible to always know the source. It’s clear from the comments that DIK is not likely to have been originally coined by LLB but it may have rose to prominence because AAR itself was prominent within the romance community. But prominence does not equal ownership, not in the eyes of the law and not in ethical terms, in my opinion.
If ownership of certain terms was so important for AAR, it should have bought those domain names. The fact that they were available to anyone should tell you how strongly those terms are or are not protected.
If you believe that I am being petty and are sick to your stomach from reading this post, then yes, I think that there are probably other forums that would suit you better than Dear Author. That’s the beauty of a large and vibrant online community for romance - there are dozens, maybe hundreds of sites - that have a variety of personalities and opinions.
I think eargasm is pretty old. I used to hear DJs on the radio use the phrase back in the 70s. R&B singer Johnnie Taylor even released an album called Eargasm back in 1976.
Acronym usage made commonplace by AAR? Gee, I could