There’s a difference between
your writing sux and your a big stupidhead

and

You use too many dialog tags, your character isn’t fully fleshed out, I don’t quite buy the motivation for the hero and this particular plot has more holes than a cheese grater

Both could be viewed as harsh.

But the first one is lame and unnecessary.

The second one, may be seen as harsh, but it’s honest. It addresses specific points that need to be improved upon. A writer has to be able to take that kind of criticism,

I sit pretty much where I choose

lol. Shannon, I think I love you. (Save me a seat in your row.)

As someone who’s commented once or twice here (and not just to ‘pat the author on the head’) I will also agree with Erastes–there are ways, and then there are ways, to crit. It’s not about being nice/ineffectual vs mean/telling-like-it-is. It is about tone. <–yes, this can be counted as another whiney vote for ‘it’s not what you say, but how you say it.’ You don’t have to sugarcoat stuff or blow smoke up peeps butts, but in terms of heat, with a one page submission (no query, title, synopsis, etc) there’s no need to turn on all burners full force, along with the grill, the warming drawer, and the oven as well.

Grow up. If you can’t take the fact that people point out things in different ways, don’t comment at all. I made my comments and had no others until you two decided I needed to be made an example of.

Try taking a little of your own advice and comment to the author, not to anyone else’s remarks.

I’m online at a relative’s house now, procrastinating before I head back home-what’s left Ike went through our area and knocked out power. No internet!

My unsolicited two cents before I force myself to disconnect from the web…

* Marsha is a very cool chick and I hope when she’s ready, she submits her book, gets a fantastic deal right off the bat and I get to meet her at a convention and have her sign my laptop. She handled some blunt, honest criticism with the kind of grace all authors need to have.

* Another thing all writers do need to have…that ability to handle honest, and sometimes harsh, criticism. We have to. I once had an editor tell me that a book of mine was the most depressing thing she’d ever read and she just didn’t know what to do with it. Not the funnest thing to hear for any writer. But it comes with being a writer.

The rest of my post is just rambling on, most in reference to the sideline conversation regarding criticism, honesty and mean girls/nice girls.

Skimming back over the posts, most of the criticism I saw was fair-some a little harsher than I’d hand out, but a lot of that is because I’ve got a huge heaping of brutal honesty and I’ve learned that tempering it serves me better.

None of the critcism really struck me as anything attacking the writer.

(Not picking on ya, Ann B, I swear) Ann B said,

Is it too mean of me to want to smack Jody and say, “Suck it up, princess”? Blaming the victim is not correct, but in this case, I think she brought the situation on herself.

The writing didn’t wow me, but it didn’t make me want to suggest the writer brush up on rudimentary English or pick up a copy of Strunk’s reference book.

Clearly Ann didn’t like the heroine, and yep, I recognize the blunt, brutal honesty. But Ann also clearly said she didn’t really find fault with the writing. She just didn’t like the character.

That’s subjective and it’s something any writer needs to be aware of-not everybody is going to love every character we create.

My opinion as a writer on getting criticism is that I want it honest. If you can’t give me an honest opinion, then I’d rather not waste my time. I can’t improve if I don’t see what I need to improve upon.

There’s a difference between
your writing sux and your a big stupidhead

and

You use too many dialog tags, your character isn’t fully fleshed out, I don’t quite buy the motivation for the hero and this particular plot has more holes than a cheese grater

Both could be viewed as harsh.

But the first one is lame and unnecessary.

The second one, may be seen as harsh, but it’s honest. It addresses specific points that need to be improved upon. A writer has to be able to take that kind of criticism, because if a writer in the business long enough, the writer will probably come up against an editor that has that way of handling critiques.

And now I’m gonna get…back home to the land of no intrawebs, junk food and whatever I can cook on the grill and warm diet cokes.

Why? Because I’ve been a part of conversations and received emails in the last couple of months about how several of you have been running roughshod over the comments here, turning many conversations into hostile battlegrounds rife with insults and sneering. By relegating dissenting opinions to the peanut gallery, you’re pretty stating this is your stage and we’re just nasty little hecklers.

And since the Theo, Ann and Anion Show is getting old, I’m done, too.

Sorry, Ja(y)nes.

If you’re not going to help the author, don’t bash the people who are. Which is exactly what’s happening here.

So, if you don’t want to help the author, don’t shoot the rest of us and these things won’t disintegrate into a bunch of name-calling diatribes. Because I don’t see anyone bashing the author, nor did I see anyone bashing any commenter who thought everything was wonderful until the peanut gallery started chiming in about how god-awful all of us were for pointing out areas that needed work.

Sorry, Jane. I’m done.

And I don’t pat anybody on the head. I think any writer who’s been following these threads on DA and chooses to submit knows what she’s in for. I don’t regularly participate—other than when a writer’s being misled as to craft issues, for instance—because I have a hard time being blunt about another’s work and choose not to critique rather than blow smoke because that doesn’t help her.

But the peanut gallery comment irks me because that’s the part of the audience that harasses and heckles the performer, and you’re not the headliners.

If you want to pat people on the head and tell them, gee, honey, this is cute, go right ahead. Five years from now, when they’re still getting a form rejection and haven’t been asked for the first five or thirty pages or a complete submission, you might just be one of the people they’ll have to thank for it.

If you want to try to help them be the best they can be (and it’s never a guarantee you’ll get past the query but certainly what every author strives for) then you need to give them an honest crit and that involves pointing out areas for improvement.

The only people I see here who are having a problem with any of this are the ones who can’t seem to say anything other than, gee, I really like it.

That doesn’t help anyone.