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	<title>Comments on: Literary Satire Gone Too Far?</title>
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	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Sunita</title>
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		<dc:creator>Sunita</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 01:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I fourth Hortense, RfP and Meriam re Jon Stewart.  

As for Si Newhouse, the publisher of the New Yorker, he *did* hire Tina Brown (for which I have yet to forgive him), but that wasn't a swing to the right.  And having Remnick succeed Brown was seen as a slight correction back toward the earlier incarnation of The New Yorker.  There's no serious evidence that I've seen or heard (as opposed to the conspiracy theories at DailyKos and the like) that Newhouse interferes editorially, and Remnick and Hendrick Hertzberg have struck me as pretty uniformly centrist-liberal. By which I mean, they think of themselves as progressives, but their political positions are toward the center of the Democratic party (which is more conservative than it used to be, I think).  

Also, the cover artists (Britt) has done some covers that I would consider pretty sharply satirical, on subjects from Bush &#38; Cheney to Clinton &#38; Obama to Ahmedinajad as Larry Craig, but they haven't gotten nearly the attention.  Perhaps because this hits the race button and because of what the commenters here have brought up, that the images will stick in people's minds.  I tend to agree with the observers who argue that the people who internalize this as information were unlikely to vote for Obama anyway, and the swing vote that doesn't make a decision until November won't remember it.

I've been reading The New Yorker for ages, and this cover struck me as a sendup of the loony right rather than a slur on the Obamas.  That said, I found it more discomfiting than funny. But I find a lot of race/ethnicity/gender satire problematic, so I'm not a good barometer.

(Edited once to give proper attribution to Hortense)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fourth Hortense, RfP and Meriam re Jon Stewart.  </p>
<p>As for Si Newhouse, the publisher of the New Yorker, he *did* hire Tina Brown (for which I have yet to forgive him), but that wasn&#8217;t a swing to the right.  And having Remnick succeed Brown was seen as a slight correction back toward the earlier incarnation of The New Yorker.  There&#8217;s no serious evidence that I&#8217;ve seen or heard (as opposed to the conspiracy theories at DailyKos and the like) that Newhouse interferes editorially, and Remnick and Hendrick Hertzberg have struck me as pretty uniformly centrist-liberal. By which I mean, they think of themselves as progressives, but their political positions are toward the center of the Democratic party (which is more conservative than it used to be, I think).  </p>
<p>Also, the cover artists (Britt) has done some covers that I would consider pretty sharply satirical, on subjects from Bush &amp; Cheney to Clinton &amp; Obama to Ahmedinajad as Larry Craig, but they haven&#8217;t gotten nearly the attention.  Perhaps because this hits the race button and because of what the commenters here have brought up, that the images will stick in people&#8217;s minds.  I tend to agree with the observers who argue that the people who internalize this as information were unlikely to vote for Obama anyway, and the swing vote that doesn&#8217;t make a decision until November won&#8217;t remember it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been reading The New Yorker for ages, and this cover struck me as a sendup of the loony right rather than a slur on the Obamas.  That said, I found it more discomfiting than funny. But I find a lot of race/ethnicity/gender satire problematic, so I&#8217;m not a good barometer.</p>
<p>(Edited once to give proper attribution to Hortense)</p>
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		<title>By: Meriam</title>
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		<dc:creator>Meriam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/?p=5179#comment-167206</guid>
		<description>Yep, I just saw it. What he said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, I just saw it. What he said.</p>
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		<title>By: RfP</title>
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		<dc:creator>RfP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/?p=5179#comment-167203</guid>
		<description>Jon Stewart speaketh the truth. Verily.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jon Stewart speaketh the truth. Verily.</p>
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		<title>By: RfP</title>
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		<dc:creator>RfP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/?p=5179#comment-167201</guid>
		<description>Tonight PBS will show Charlie Rose's interview with David Remnick (longtime editor of &lt;i&gt;The New Yorker&lt;/i&gt;).  The video will be &lt;a href="http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2008/07/16/1/a-conversation-with-david-remnick-editor-in-chief-new-yorker" rel="nofollow"&gt;on charlierose.com&lt;/a&gt; after it airs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tonight PBS will show Charlie Rose&#8217;s interview with David Remnick (longtime editor of <i>The New Yorker</i>).  The video will be <a href="http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2008/07/16/1/a-conversation-with-david-remnick-editor-in-chief-new-yorker" rel="nofollow">on charlierose.com</a> after it airs.</p>
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		<title>By: Hortense Powdermaker</title>
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		<dc:creator>Hortense Powdermaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/?p=5179#comment-167185</guid>
		<description>I subscribe to the New Yorker and assumed it was a satire of pop media racism, but then apparently the Obama campaign people didn't "get" the joke either, since they condemned the cover.

Jon Stewart has a funny commentary on this kerfuffle - a link to that segment of the Daily Show is &lt;a href="http://www.videosift.com/video/Jon-Stewart-covers-the-New-Yorkers-Cover" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I subscribe to the New Yorker and assumed it was a satire of pop media racism, but then apparently the Obama campaign people didn&#8217;t &#8220;get&#8221; the joke either, since they condemned the cover.</p>
<p>Jon Stewart has a funny commentary on this kerfuffle - a link to that segment of the Daily Show is <a href="http://www.videosift.com/video/Jon-Stewart-covers-the-New-Yorkers-Cover" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: ジェーン(Jān)</title>
		<link>http://dearauthor.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fdearauthor.com%2Fwordpress%2F2008%2F07%2F14%2Fliterary-satire-gone-too-far%2F&amp;seed_title=Literary+Satire+Gone+Too+Far%3F/comment-page-1/#comment-167183</link>
		<dc:creator>ジェーン(Jān)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 20:07:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/?p=5179#comment-167183</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Carolyn.  I read the New Yorker, but when I first saw the picture it was online without the magazine's name, and I thought rather New Republic.  It was only when I found it was a New Yorker cover that I knew it was satire.  

Most people in this country don't know The New Yorker and its style or its liberal leanings.  When they see this picture, they'll likely have the same reaction I first did, of thinking it was meant to be a smear.  I think that's just a reflection of how dirty the media on both sides plays.  

The picture is, however, over the top enough that I think most people who see it and not know it as satire would find it distasteful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Carolyn.  I read the New Yorker, but when I first saw the picture it was online without the magazine&#8217;s name, and I thought rather New Republic.  It was only when I found it was a New Yorker cover that I knew it was satire.  </p>
<p>Most people in this country don&#8217;t know The New Yorker and its style or its liberal leanings.  When they see this picture, they&#8217;ll likely have the same reaction I first did, of thinking it was meant to be a smear.  I think that&#8217;s just a reflection of how dirty the media on both sides plays.  </p>
<p>The picture is, however, over the top enough that I think most people who see it and not know it as satire would find it distasteful.</p>
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		<title>By: Seressia</title>
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		<dc:creator>Seressia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 16:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;No one thinks Obama is a Muslim.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

When I saw the image for the first time, I didn't think satire.  I thought "Obama-hater" and "fear-monger," feeding people's misconceptions.  I don't know or care what the New Yorker's philosophical leanings are, I'm giving you my gut reaction--"there they go, making middle America afraid of black people again."

The problem is not what the New Yorker's readers think.  The problem is when someone sees this image, just the cover, and never pick up the magazine and read the article or turn up the volume to hear beyond the "satire" soundbite being replayed on TV.  The problem is what will most average Joe people think when they see Michelle Obama in an Afro a la Black Power militants of the 60's and 70's and Barack in traditional Kenyan garb and they see the flag burning in the fireplace and Osama over the mantel?

I think they'll go, "oh yeah, he did wear that when he went to his Muslim homeland, and didn't people say that he wasn't even born in this country, and Michelle did do that terrorist (!) fist thump thing  ON TV."

I think we've shown here and elsewhere that you can say something until you're blue in the face, even present evidence, and people will still beleive what they want to believe--and it's usually the worst.

I'm waiting for the cover of McCain using a walker with a bottle of Alzheimer's medication in his hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>No one thinks Obama is a Muslim.</p></blockquote>
<p>When I saw the image for the first time, I didn&#8217;t think satire.  I thought &#8220;Obama-hater&#8221; and &#8220;fear-monger,&#8221; feeding people&#8217;s misconceptions.  I don&#8217;t know or care what the New Yorker&#8217;s philosophical leanings are, I&#8217;m giving you my gut reaction&#8211;&#8221;there they go, making middle America afraid of black people again.&#8221;</p>
<p>The problem is not what the New Yorker&#8217;s readers think.  The problem is when someone sees this image, just the cover, and never pick up the magazine and read the article or turn up the volume to hear beyond the &#8220;satire&#8221; soundbite being replayed on TV.  The problem is what will most average Joe people think when they see Michelle Obama in an Afro a la Black Power militants of the 60&#8217;s and 70&#8217;s and Barack in traditional Kenyan garb and they see the flag burning in the fireplace and Osama over the mantel?</p>
<p>I think they&#8217;ll go, &#8220;oh yeah, he did wear that when he went to his Muslim homeland, and didn&#8217;t people say that he wasn&#8217;t even born in this country, and Michelle did do that terrorist (!) fist thump thing  ON TV.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;ve shown here and elsewhere that you can say something until you&#8217;re blue in the face, even present evidence, and people will still beleive what they want to believe&#8211;and it&#8217;s usually the worst.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m waiting for the cover of McCain using a walker with a bottle of Alzheimer&#8217;s medication in his hand.</p>
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		<title>By: carolyn Jean</title>
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		<dc:creator>carolyn Jean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well, I would just reiterate my first post about the power of images. We can go back and forth on this, and of course everybody here is great, and has made excellent points!

I've worked in advertising for years, and I feel very confident in saying the image will be the thing that will sticks deep in peoples minds, and that image will influence people in the end.  Maybe not you all, but it will have a powerful influence. This is a psychological fact my colleagues and I exploit quite often. 

So I just hate that the EFFECT, unintended or not, right or wrong, understood rightly by liberals and conservatives or not, is to paint this patriotic couple as terrorists and non-Americans to a larger number of people than you would ever believe!  Sad but true!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I would just reiterate my first post about the power of images. We can go back and forth on this, and of course everybody here is great, and has made excellent points!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve worked in advertising for years, and I feel very confident in saying the image will be the thing that will sticks deep in peoples minds, and that image will influence people in the end.  Maybe not you all, but it will have a powerful influence. This is a psychological fact my colleagues and I exploit quite often. </p>
<p>So I just hate that the EFFECT, unintended or not, right or wrong, understood rightly by liberals and conservatives or not, is to paint this patriotic couple as terrorists and non-Americans to a larger number of people than you would ever believe!  Sad but true!</p>
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		<title>By: Leah</title>
		<link>http://dearauthor.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fdearauthor.com%2Fwordpress%2F2008%2F07%2F14%2Fliterary-satire-gone-too-far%2F&amp;seed_title=Literary+Satire+Gone+Too+Far%3F/comment-page-1/#comment-167071</link>
		<dc:creator>Leah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I thought it was funny--like an SNL opening skit (generally the only funny one on the show).  But then, that's not me on the cover.  I can see how others might be offended, especially if they just hang on to their initial reaction.  I don't think it's going to have a wider impact on the campaign. though...or at least it shouldn't.  Most people I know here in Red State land are more concerned abt. their jobs, their inadequate incomes, their health coverage and their military family members.  No one thinks Obama is a Muslim.  RfP is right about the hectorers and the haters--and neither group is as representative as they might like to imagine. This should be a non-issue...but to counteract any unintended damage, perhaps they should do a similar one of McCain</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought it was funny&#8211;like an SNL opening skit (generally the only funny one on the show).  But then, that&#8217;s not me on the cover.  I can see how others might be offended, especially if they just hang on to their initial reaction.  I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s going to have a wider impact on the campaign. though&#8230;or at least it shouldn&#8217;t.  Most people I know here in Red State land are more concerned abt. their jobs, their inadequate incomes, their health coverage and their military family members.  No one thinks Obama is a Muslim.  RfP is right about the hectorers and the haters&#8211;and neither group is as representative as they might like to imagine. This should be a non-issue&#8230;but to counteract any unintended damage, perhaps they should do a similar one of McCain</p>
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		<title>By: RfP</title>
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		<dc:creator>RfP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 06:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think it’s a sad commentary on our level of political engagement that “discussion” has largely been a debate over whether the piece is satire or not.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Remember that's how it gets framed.  Everywhere.  Here: "Satire Gone Too Far?" (sorry Jane).  By radio.  By newspapers.  I haven't seen the TV coverage, but I bet most of it's identical.  That facile media response is a huge part of the problem.

The thing that this highlights to me is that the problem isn't only with debating satirical merit versus talking about issues; there's also a horrendous lack of nuance and humor in discourse.  (Yes, humor.  Some countries manage it.  Including the US, in days gone by.)&lt;blockquote&gt;Salon has an interesting take on this issue, arguing that the Bush administration has made liberals so terrified of right wing smears that we’ve lost the ability to see satire for what it is (and by extension capitalize on it).&lt;/blockquote&gt;Oh, absolutely.  Unfortunately that train of thought never seems to stick or make a difference.  The left has been incredibly incompetent at holding up its end of the conversation over the last many years (not only during this administration), and the result is a dangerously flat national discourse.

The same thing is visible all the time online.  Usually the two most loudmouthed groups are the no-holds-barred haters and the uptight self-righteous hectorers.  And what the uptight ones go on about is mostly points of style--always a weak position in an argument.  I think all sides have got flabby at having a genuine argument.&lt;blockquote&gt;A satire that appears to be liberal, but reinforces a republican campaign strategy.&lt;/blockquote&gt;CJ, you're saying it's good satire, but Evil Overlord Newhouse chose it anyway for his message of hate and fear because EON knows all voters are complete sheep who won't get it, so he doesn't care that the *real* message makes him look stupid?  OK, I suppose that's possible.  But....

Funny juxtaposition.  I've never imagined &lt;i&gt;Daily Kos&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;New Yorker&lt;/i&gt; sharing a lot of readers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think it’s a sad commentary on our level of political engagement that “discussion” has largely been a debate over whether the piece is satire or not.</p></blockquote>
<p>Remember that&#8217;s how it gets framed.  Everywhere.  Here: &#8220;Satire Gone Too Far?&#8221; (sorry Jane).  By radio.  By newspapers.  I haven&#8217;t seen the TV coverage, but I bet most of it&#8217;s identical.  That facile media response is a huge part of the problem.</p>
<p>The thing that this highlights to me is that the problem isn&#8217;t only with debating satirical merit versus talking about issues; there&#8217;s also a horrendous lack of nuance and humor in discourse.  (Yes, humor.  Some countries manage it.  Including the US, in days gone by.)<br />
<blockquote>Salon has an interesting take on this issue, arguing that the Bush administration has made liberals so terrified of right wing smears that we’ve lost the ability to see satire for what it is (and by extension capitalize on it).</p></blockquote>
<p>Oh, absolutely.  Unfortunately that train of thought never seems to stick or make a difference.  The left has been incredibly incompetent at holding up its end of the conversation over the last many years (not only during this administration), and the result is a dangerously flat national discourse.</p>
<p>The same thing is visible all the time online.  Usually the two most loudmouthed groups are the no-holds-barred haters and the uptight self-righteous hectorers.  And what the uptight ones go on about is mostly points of style&#8211;always a weak position in an argument.  I think all sides have got flabby at having a genuine argument.<br />
<blockquote>A satire that appears to be liberal, but reinforces a republican campaign strategy.</p></blockquote>
<p>CJ, you&#8217;re saying it&#8217;s good satire, but Evil Overlord Newhouse chose it anyway for his message of hate and fear because EON knows all voters are complete sheep who won&#8217;t get it, so he doesn&#8217;t care that the *real* message makes him look stupid?  OK, I suppose that&#8217;s possible.  But&#8230;.</p>
<p>Funny juxtaposition.  I&#8217;ve never imagined <i>Daily Kos</i> and <i>New Yorker</i> sharing a lot of readers.</p>
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