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	<title>Comments on: Looking Past the Ivy to See the Writers</title>
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		<title>By: scene girls</title>
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		<dc:creator>scene girls</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 21:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>That&#039;s some excellent information you&#039;ve gathered on , but how do you find the time to gather it all??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s some excellent information you&#8217;ve gathered on , but how do you find the time to gather it all??</p>
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		<title>By: Racy Romance Reviews &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Review, The Lost Duke of Wyndham, Julia Quinn</title>
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		<dc:creator>Racy Romance Reviews &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Review, The Lost Duke of Wyndham, Julia Quinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:30:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] not because Quinn got her undergrad degree at an Ivy League university (I work with a number of pretty [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] not because Quinn got her undergrad degree at an Ivy League university (I work with a number of pretty [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Review, The Lost Duke of Wyndham, Julia Quinn &#171; Racy Romance Reviews</title>
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		<dc:creator>Review, The Lost Duke of Wyndham, Julia Quinn &#171; Racy Romance Reviews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 02:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] not because Quinn got her undergrad degree at an Ivy League university (I work with a number of pretty [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] not because Quinn got her undergrad degree at an Ivy League university (I work with a number of pretty [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Yasmine Galenorn</title>
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		<dc:creator>Yasmine Galenorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 06:25:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/?p=4999#comment-167567</guid>
		<description>I find it interesting that people didn&#039;t notice my qualifiers (and that my actual response to the blog post was far longer than what is clipped here) that college doesn&#039;t work for *all* people, and that part of the value I see in it is to expand horizons in ways other than educational. I would never blanketly say a college degree is required for being a writer--in fact, my own is in theatre, not writing, but my years spent in college (a state college) were priceless in terms of opening up new experiences for me. 

Yasmine</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it interesting that people didn&#8217;t notice my qualifiers (and that my actual response to the blog post was far longer than what is clipped here) that college doesn&#8217;t work for *all* people, and that part of the value I see in it is to expand horizons in ways other than educational. I would never blanketly say a college degree is required for being a writer&#8211;in fact, my own is in theatre, not writing, but my years spent in college (a state college) were priceless in terms of opening up new experiences for me. </p>
<p>Yasmine</p>
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		<title>By: Doreen Alsen</title>
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		<dc:creator>Doreen Alsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/?p=4999#comment-164727</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m late to the party because I thought about things too long.  This thread pushes so many buttons for me.  My husband taught English and American Lit for too many years to count.  He finally retired (I am a child bride.  Really.) and one of the reasons he retired was that none of the kids coming out of high school knew how to write anymore.  He wasn&#039;t teaching about literature, his great love (besides me) he was doing remedial work teaching people how to make a sentence.

And college writing is nothing like telling a story.  It&#039;s about having an opinion and using other people&#039;s opinions to prove your opinion is right.

It&#039;s a sad state of American education that people have to go to college to learn how to make a sentence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m late to the party because I thought about things too long.  This thread pushes so many buttons for me.  My husband taught English and American Lit for too many years to count.  He finally retired (I am a child bride.  Really.) and one of the reasons he retired was that none of the kids coming out of high school knew how to write anymore.  He wasn&#8217;t teaching about literature, his great love (besides me) he was doing remedial work teaching people how to make a sentence.</p>
<p>And college writing is nothing like telling a story.  It&#8217;s about having an opinion and using other people&#8217;s opinions to prove your opinion is right.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a sad state of American education that people have to go to college to learn how to make a sentence.</p>
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		<title>By: Monica Burns</title>
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		<dc:creator>Monica Burns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/?p=4999#comment-164698</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And is educational pedigree actually being used as a marketing technique? You don’t see “Harvard-educated” splashed across the front of Julia Quinn or Eloisa James’ books. No, it’s “bestselling author of X and X” or the usual blurbs from other romance authors, just like it is for every other writer.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s a technique that&#039;s been used enough to make people aware of the authors&#039; education. I knew about the education background of all three authors mentioned in the post. I think the way the marketing was used in the cases of JQ and EJ  provided them with an expanded range of &lt;strong&gt;potential &lt;/strong&gt;readers. As referenced earlier, it was used in JQ&#039;s Time Magazine article. With EJ, her &quot;coming out&quot; as a romance writer made national news as I recall. With that information out there, it gets passed on over an extended period of time, which generates continued publicity. 

The educational hook might not be used on the back or front of a book, but it&#039;s seen in other publicity efforts. The question is whether or not the marketing actually creates a bridge for new readers to cross over and read the author. But then that&#039;s the same marketing question one asks for &lt;strong&gt;any hook&lt;/strong&gt; one uses in promoting an author. Most marketing is not easily quantified, but every little bit counts toward the bottom line. I don&#039;t see the educational hook as being any less valuable than a cover quote for the same author. It is what it is----a marketing hook.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And is educational pedigree actually being used as a marketing technique? You don’t see “Harvard-educated” splashed across the front of Julia Quinn or Eloisa James’ books. No, it’s “bestselling author of X and X” or the usual blurbs from other romance authors, just like it is for every other writer.</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s a technique that&#8217;s been used enough to make people aware of the authors&#8217; education. I knew about the education background of all three authors mentioned in the post. I think the way the marketing was used in the cases of JQ and EJ  provided them with an expanded range of <strong>potential </strong>readers. As referenced earlier, it was used in JQ&#8217;s Time Magazine article. With EJ, her &#8220;coming out&#8221; as a romance writer made national news as I recall. With that information out there, it gets passed on over an extended period of time, which generates continued publicity. </p>
<p>The educational hook might not be used on the back or front of a book, but it&#8217;s seen in other publicity efforts. The question is whether or not the marketing actually creates a bridge for new readers to cross over and read the author. But then that&#8217;s the same marketing question one asks for <strong>any hook</strong> one uses in promoting an author. Most marketing is not easily quantified, but every little bit counts toward the bottom line. I don&#8217;t see the educational hook as being any less valuable than a cover quote for the same author. It is what it is&#8212;-a marketing hook.</p>
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		<title>By: Gillian</title>
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		<dc:creator>Gillian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 16:21:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/?p=4999#comment-164692</guid>
		<description>Count me in as one of those who has a problem with this post, but for a reason that I feel has not yet been articulated. (Full disclosure: I went to Princeton and loved it. I&#039;m one of those who could have stayed an undergrad for ever.) The simple fact that the column was written at all is the problem for me, because where is Ivy League education being used as a marketing technique &lt;em&gt;within the romance genre&lt;/em&gt;? 

Jane wrote:



&lt;blockquote&gt;I agree that it is a marketing technique and a good one from a marketing and authorial standpoint. But only because we readers respond to it in a positive way. I.e., we readers elevate authors who have the pedigree.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



So which readers are elevating authors with this pedigree? No one in this blog&#039;s audience, it seems. And is educational pedigree actually being used as a marketing technique? You don&#039;t see &quot;Harvard-educated&quot; splashed across the front of Julia Quinn or Eloisa James&#039; books.  No, it&#039;s &quot;bestselling author of &lt;em&gt;X&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;X&lt;/em&gt;&quot; or the usual blurbs from other romance authors, just like it is for every other writer. Are there readers out there who check out author bios when they&#039;re deciding whether to buy a book? From everything I&#039;ve read online, it seems like the front and back covers and the first few pages are what help make that decision. So my first thought about this post was, &quot;Why are we having this discussion at all?&quot; I agree that such marketing happens in other genres, such as literary fiction, but I just do not see it in romance.

As for the authors mentioned, I had no idea of educational backgrounds except for Quinn. And I think the only reason I know that Julia Quinn attended Harvard is because I remember being struck after reading &lt;em&gt;Splendid&lt;/em&gt; that here was a young woman only a little older than I was with a similar educational background. And it was her youth (very clear from the author photo) that was as much of a draw as her Ivy League education. 

I think that the question of whether a college education makes you a better writer is a completely different question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Count me in as one of those who has a problem with this post, but for a reason that I feel has not yet been articulated. (Full disclosure: I went to Princeton and loved it. I&#8217;m one of those who could have stayed an undergrad for ever.) The simple fact that the column was written at all is the problem for me, because where is Ivy League education being used as a marketing technique <em>within the romance genre</em>? </p>
<p>Jane wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>I agree that it is a marketing technique and a good one from a marketing and authorial standpoint. But only because we readers respond to it in a positive way. I.e., we readers elevate authors who have the pedigree.</p></blockquote>
<p>So which readers are elevating authors with this pedigree? No one in this blog&#8217;s audience, it seems. And is educational pedigree actually being used as a marketing technique? You don&#8217;t see &#8220;Harvard-educated&#8221; splashed across the front of Julia Quinn or Eloisa James&#8217; books.  No, it&#8217;s &#8220;bestselling author of <em>X</em> and <em>X</em>&#8221; or the usual blurbs from other romance authors, just like it is for every other writer. Are there readers out there who check out author bios when they&#8217;re deciding whether to buy a book? From everything I&#8217;ve read online, it seems like the front and back covers and the first few pages are what help make that decision. So my first thought about this post was, &#8220;Why are we having this discussion at all?&#8221; I agree that such marketing happens in other genres, such as literary fiction, but I just do not see it in romance.</p>
<p>As for the authors mentioned, I had no idea of educational backgrounds except for Quinn. And I think the only reason I know that Julia Quinn attended Harvard is because I remember being struck after reading <em>Splendid</em> that here was a young woman only a little older than I was with a similar educational background. And it was her youth (very clear from the author photo) that was as much of a draw as her Ivy League education. </p>
<p>I think that the question of whether a college education makes you a better writer is a completely different question.</p>
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		<title>By: Janine</title>
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		<dc:creator>Janine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 22:44:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If we’re going to do the college argument, then I’ll say that colleges would be far better served if they all had apprenticeship programs to send the students out into the real world. One learns a whole lot faster being knocked around by reality than studying about it in books. A writer who learns her craft from college still needs life experience before she can write a word. Unless, of course, she’s writing about college. “G”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

IMO the ideal college education would be a mixture of a varied academic curriculum as well as apprecnticeship programs.  Yes, one learns a lot by being out in the real world, and there are times I wish my alma mater had provided me with more of that.  But my more old fashioned academic curriculum really widened my horizons, taught me how to think critically and how to research, all of which have served me in good stead.

I&#039;ll add that I loved college, and would happily have spent many more years there, not as a graduate student or as a professor, but as an undergraduate, if I could have afforded it.  I loved the wide array of subjects my university made available to me -- after the more limited selection of classes in high school the scope of the subjects at college seemed breathtaking.  There are so many subjects I would have loved to learn more about that I did not take even one class in because I only had room for so many electives.

So yeah, while I agree with you that school (even high school) ought to do a better job of preparing students for the real world, I also wish that the real world presented us with more opportunities for old-fashioned academic schooling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If we’re going to do the college argument, then I’ll say that colleges would be far better served if they all had apprenticeship programs to send the students out into the real world. One learns a whole lot faster being knocked around by reality than studying about it in books. A writer who learns her craft from college still needs life experience before she can write a word. Unless, of course, she’s writing about college. “G”</p></blockquote>
<p>IMO the ideal college education would be a mixture of a varied academic curriculum as well as apprecnticeship programs.  Yes, one learns a lot by being out in the real world, and there are times I wish my alma mater had provided me with more of that.  But my more old fashioned academic curriculum really widened my horizons, taught me how to think critically and how to research, all of which have served me in good stead.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll add that I loved college, and would happily have spent many more years there, not as a graduate student or as a professor, but as an undergraduate, if I could have afforded it.  I loved the wide array of subjects my university made available to me &#8212; after the more limited selection of classes in high school the scope of the subjects at college seemed breathtaking.  There are so many subjects I would have loved to learn more about that I did not take even one class in because I only had room for so many electives.</p>
<p>So yeah, while I agree with you that school (even high school) ought to do a better job of preparing students for the real world, I also wish that the real world presented us with more opportunities for old-fashioned academic schooling.</p>
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		<title>By: Patricia Rice</title>
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		<dc:creator>Patricia Rice</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 19:50:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;ll buy &quot;intellectual curiosity&quot; but I won&#039;t buy &quot;college.&quot;  Yes, some students profit from college. Of course, they do.  I only went so I could have a degree to prove that I could do what I was already doing (accounting, at the time).  It was a waste of time and money and I was teaching the kids around me while I was doing it, but society requires that sheepskin for certain professions, so I got it.  I guess it proved that I&#039;m a stubborn witch, but it didn&#039;t make me a writer!

If we&#039;re going to do the college argument, then I&#039;ll say that colleges would be far better served if they all had apprenticeship programs to send the students out into the real world. One learns a whole lot faster being knocked around by reality than studying about it in books. A writer who learns her craft from college still needs life experience before she can write a word. Unless, of course, she&#039;s writing about college. &quot;G&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll buy &#8220;intellectual curiosity&#8221; but I won&#8217;t buy &#8220;college.&#8221;  Yes, some students profit from college. Of course, they do.  I only went so I could have a degree to prove that I could do what I was already doing (accounting, at the time).  It was a waste of time and money and I was teaching the kids around me while I was doing it, but society requires that sheepskin for certain professions, so I got it.  I guess it proved that I&#8217;m a stubborn witch, but it didn&#8217;t make me a writer!</p>
<p>If we&#8217;re going to do the college argument, then I&#8217;ll say that colleges would be far better served if they all had apprenticeship programs to send the students out into the real world. One learns a whole lot faster being knocked around by reality than studying about it in books. A writer who learns her craft from college still needs life experience before she can write a word. Unless, of course, she&#8217;s writing about college. &#8220;G&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Christine Merrill</title>
		<link>http://dearauthor.com/feeder/?FeederAction=clicked&amp;feed=Articles+%28RSS2%29&amp;seed=http%3A%2F%2Fdearauthor.com%2Fwordpress%2F2008%2F06%2F10%2Flooking-past-the-ivy-to-see-the-writers%2F&amp;seed_title=Looking+Past+the+Ivy+to+See+the+Writers/comment-page-3/#comment-164633</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine Merrill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 18:59:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I would wholeheartedly agree with the Galenorn statement, if we could substitute &#039;intellectual curiosity&#039; for &#039;college&#039;.  I don&#039;t think you can be a good writer without being an observer of the world, and a life-long learner with insatiable curiosity.

Going to college is often a sign that an individual has these behaviors.  Or it can help foster the behaviors, if they are not already formed.  But it is not the only path to enlightenment.  

To see both sides, and recognize learning and respect wisdom, gained or existing, outside of an academic setting is a way to use the critical thinking skills we were supposed to be getting, while in school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would wholeheartedly agree with the Galenorn statement, if we could substitute &#8216;intellectual curiosity&#8217; for &#8216;college&#8217;.  I don&#8217;t think you can be a good writer without being an observer of the world, and a life-long learner with insatiable curiosity.</p>
<p>Going to college is often a sign that an individual has these behaviors.  Or it can help foster the behaviors, if they are not already formed.  But it is not the only path to enlightenment.  </p>
<p>To see both sides, and recognize learning and respect wisdom, gained or existing, outside of an academic setting is a way to use the critical thinking skills we were supposed to be getting, while in school.</p>
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