Update on Amazon Situation: Amazon Petition
By Jane • Apr 17th, 2008 • Category: Letters of Opinion, Misc • •Most of the blogosphere has been mouth agape in reaction to the Deborah Anne MacGillivray harassment of an Amazon reader over a 3 star review that the reader left for a book of MacGillivray’s. In my link backs, though, I saw a post called “Authors Who Bite Back” from Tess Gerritsen’s blog that left my mouth agape. This is a three star review. Three stars! It’s like an average grade. From a reader who loved the first book.
My first reaction to this story was: “What? I can get the bad reviews taken off my Amazon pages? How do I do that?” Because I didn’t know an author could do that. I thought you just had to live with them and suffer heartburn every time you scroll past them.
My second reaction was: “There but for the grace of better self-control go I.”
Because, let’s be honest here. Really. Is there an author alive who hasn’t wanted to hunt down the identities of those who’ve written bad Amazon reviews of our books? Is there an author alive who hasn’t harbored fantasies of revenge, even if it only involves sticking a few pins in a voodoo doll? Is there an author alive who hasn’t wanted to fire back a response along the lines of “what could you possibly know about good writing, you illiterate slut?”
If you haven’t harbored such fantasies, then you’re a far better person than I am.
Now, I’m not saying that Ms. MacGillivray wasn’t out of line here. But her major foolishness was that she got caught at it.
As an astute commenter pointed out,
I guess I would argue that her “major foolishness” wasn’t in getting caught - because that implies her actions would have been OK if she hadn’t been caught. I would argue that her problem is that she crossed the line of what most people believe is acceptable behavior in our society.
Ms Gerritsen defends herself in subsequent posts by saying she was trying to be funny;
Humor involves a certain amount of exaggeration, and the actual story I cited is about the exaggerated lengths a certain author has gone to to protect her turf. Yes, she went way over the line into the creepy. But am I the only one who found black comedy in the story? The only one who could see it as a wacky film about people who get carried away into committing absurdities?
And then says that she was just being honest about her sensitivities to negative reviews written by cowardly anonymous reviewers.
So okay, maybe I’ve said things here that sound neurotic and hypersensitive. But at least, damn it, I’m brave enough to OWN MY OWN WORDS. On this blog, you all know exactly who’s writing these thoughts.
Unlike the cowardly anonymous reviewers who throw bombs and scuttle back under their rocks.
If a reader did this to an author would Gerritsen find the black humor in it? If a reader, to a reader’s group, said “vote down this bitch” and “Well, thanks to XXXXXX our PI , we now have her name, her husband’s name, her chidrens’ names, her grannies and great grannies name. Her address phone number and email lol… quite interesting.”
Please Note that the Following Petition Is not in any way related to Tess Gerritsen, her blog or anything on her blog. Instead the petition is directed at Amazon’s inaction toward Deborah MacGillivray and the unfair treatment of reader, Reba Belle.
In any event, we’ve got an iPetition up for those who believe that Amazon’s inaction toward the author and the banning of the reader are inappropriate. You simply need to provide your name and email address and you are given the choice of signing anonymously. One you hit the “sign petition” button, you are done. You will be directed to a page asking you for a donation. You absolutely do not need to give any money to iPetition.com in order for your signature to show up.
Jane is a long time romance reader whose passion is, you guessed it, reading. Jane also does not like to talk about herself in the third person, but apparently this is the way that this biography thing works (although in a true biography, someone else would be writing this blurb). Anyway, currently Jane loves urban fantasy authors Patricia Briggs and Ilona Andrews. She's really excited about this year's crop of historicals including Joanna Bourne's The Spymaster's Lady and Sherry Thomas' Private Arrangements and the upcoming Loretta Chase Her Scandalous Ways.
She's looking for a good contemporary author. Email her with a recommendation!
Email this author | All posts by Jane
I think this provides some context for her remarks (from her most recent blog post):
WOW, is my first reaction (do you think she says this stuff directly TO her children? — oh, never mind).
Anyway, I guess this is why she conceptualized her reaction as an author “biting back” — because she sees posits the relationship in question as that of reader - author instead of reader - book. And I feel that she’s definitely projecting that on to her response. But to make that the WHOLE substance of the response is troubling, alleged humor or not. I suspect that if a reader had similarly commented about an author, the response would be wholly different, too, and not at all funny to her.
My feeling about authors who don’t like negative reviews is this: don’t read them. They shouldn’t Google themselves and peruse every single comment on their books out there. Because really, it’s a no win for them, a whole lot of suffering and then a possibly embarrassing public reaction. Because as Reba’s review shows, a less than glowing review does not mean that reader is not a fan — it just means they didn’t like ONE BOOK. ONE. BOOK. That’s all.
I signed the iPetition. I’m really getting upset over this whole thing.
I’ve never written a bad review, yes I’ve criticized some issues in a few but that’s the thing - I wrote it, it’s my opinion and if I want to say that I thought this book sucked then I damn well will and I shouldn’t have to feel like I can’t say what I think because some psycho author is gonna go apes and hired a freaking PI to stalk me!
Books are meant to be shared, there will always be different types of opinions on it, and to make such a big deal of one person’s opinion on a certain book just because someone doesn’t like it is just too ridiculous.
I signed too. I told the girl at the bookstore I go to that I exercised great will-power in not throwing the woman’s books somewhere. She hadn’t heard of what DAM had done, but I thought for a minute she was going to go back and pull the books. Not that I expected her too, but she asked the name and almost left me at the counter like she was going back there.
I signed, too, but whoa . . . it scared the bejeebers out of me when a PayPal page turned up. I HATE that outfit!
I want to echo what Robin wrote: please, people, get a grip! These are just reviews! And they are not usually reviews written by literary professionals, either! You, as an author, are probably well aware of your book’s shortcomings anyway. Who cares what these people say?
As far as the child analogy goes. This weekend, I actually had a run-in with someone who made some unkind remarks about my toddler son. I was not at all happy about it, did my share of brooding, and even fanztasized about ways to tell this individual exactly what I thought of her. Then I thought, “well, this is taking up too much of my time. Her remarks were unkind and untrue, and say more about her control issues than they do about my son. Perhaps I should feel sorry for her.” I didn’t tell her off, I didn’t stalk her, or threaten her, or do/say anything to her children. I got over it and, since I’m hardly a model of mature sensibility, I’m sure most people would do the same. Authors, please shrug this stuff off. And if you can’t, then don’t go to those review sites. Have a friend do your Amazon orders or something, but stay away from what makes you needlessly unhappy.
I was with the joking until the part about ” her major foolishness was that she got caught at it.” The later posts also sound very ranty and defensive. I don’t know, I’m not really upset by what she’s saying because I think she’s being open about taking reviews very seriously. I think a lot of people may disagree with her opinion or the way she explained it, but she’s not actually hurting anyone with it. Except maybe herself. Unlike DAM who has caused a lot of harm.
Surely she jest. I finally read a Gerritsen. It was a entertaining read. Didn’t care for how she handled the ending but each to his/her own. There will always be the reader/author disconnect on some things and bad reviews are it. I didn’t take what she said seriously. She sounded like she was joking, venting off steam like anyone would against those who don’t understand “the profession.” I’ve done it on occassion. [g]
As for what Ms. Gerritsen said - as someone we all know says ‘it’s her blog and she can say what she wants to”. Our thoughts and opinions are our own and no one has the right to say we or they are wrong. And that’s that.
In the other matter - I signed too and also posted my thoughts on the whole MacGillivray situation and strongly urged them to take action in this matter.
MacGillivray’s major foolishness was getting caught? ::boggle:: Lost me on that one.
I don’t agree with Gerritsen’s assumption that most/all authors respond to negative feedback in the manner she described. There ARE people in the world with such pathologically weak egos that the smallest criticism is a threat to their very existence, but they’re not all that common, thank goodness. Among the writers I consider close friends, not a one of them is like that. Sure, they’re not jumping for joy at negative reviews, but neither are they getting dreamy-eyed with revenge fantasies of stalking reviewers and torturing their effigies.
To me, negative reviews and oddball writing contest critiques are kind of like someone flipping you off in traffic. Maybe you were driving erratically. Maybe they hate your car or your bumper stickers. Or maybe they’re just damn crazy. You don’t know, and you probably can’t find out without more mental effort than it’s worth. It’s almost certainly a helluva lot more about THEM than about you.
To be on the safe side, listen to feedback from people you trust. If your family and friends tell you that you’re an accident waiting to happen, make some adjustments. And if you keep seeing the SAME person flipping you off and following you to the mall, do call the police.
Otherwise, forget the random flip-offs from strangers in traffic, and move on. :-)
I think for most sane people this borderline a black comedy, not to make light of the whole crazy story but really if you were talking about this in the ladies room and I was in the next stall, I think my reaction to it would be are you f**king kidding me.
Some one mention on the original thread about how time she consuming this was just to read, just think about how much effort DAM is taking from her day just to stalk a review around the internet who gave her 3 stars out of 5.
I have not read any of Gerritsen’s book but I can understand where if you slaved on some thing and some one does not like it your feeling will be hurt, hey we are all human after all, but I think most sane people are able to shrug it off and go on to the next thing there are doing.
Do any of you remember that whole cheerleader thing down in texas yrs ago how insanely bizzar the whole thing was, when people react differently to a normal sitch, you do have scratch your and wonder.
This case was made famous because it’s just so out there.
I signed it too and posted on both blogs to get others to sign it also.
Out of lurk: As a writer, I admit negative reviews aren’t a joy to read. Them I am reminded of the old addage: Opinions are like a$$holes. Everybody has one. You shrug them off and go on about the business of writing your next book. You don’t turn into a shrew and start attacking the people who have paid for — and read — your book. Sheesh. Even if a reader dislikes a book, think about it this way: 1: they read it (yah) 2: they’re thinking about it (yah) and 3: they formed an opinion based on what they read. (yah) Even if they thought it was the writing/plotting of a stupid moron–THEY READ THE BOOK!
And that’s what you wrote it for.
Right?
Hey. That made for a good movie ^-^
I have to disagree with her here. I believe that reviews CAN be learning tools for later books. I have learned from some of the reviews I’ve received. Both good and bad. Some I’ve gotten made me wonder if the reader actually read the book, while others I could tell not only had read it, but re-read it several times. LOL
The bottom line is not every review will be stellar and if you get all crazy over those that aren’t, you are wasting valuable time. Does it bug me when I read reviews from people who don’t like or “get” my work? Sure. But I’ve got better things to do than stalk them, or spend time berating them either in public or in private.
Sheeesh…
I think because I’ve been following this whole drama, I’m quite disgusted by the words Ms. Gerritsen used–foolishness, tut-tutt, slut.
Anyhow. On another update I wanted to point to this new thread on Amazon, which is a HUGE disappointment in terms of Amazon’s actions.
http://www.amazon.com/tag/romance/forum/ref=cm_cd_ef_tft_tp?%5Fencoding=UTF8&cdForum=FxM42D5QN2YZ1D&cdThread=Tx78BFM6KD8WBT&displayType=tagsDetail
I think it’s one thing to discuss the very personal way in which one receives criticism — which Gerritsen has done on numerous occasions, actually (including a blog post about reviewer qualifications, IIRC). I can see where that would be a difficult thing to do.
But whether she intended it or not, I think Gerritsen’s posts come across as dismissive of a whole pattern of behavior toward reviews, other authors, and readers that goes way, way beyond even lashing back at a reader for a bad review. Which is, I think, why Gerritsen’s posts struck me wrong. They came across as a version of the ‘what’s the big deal’ posts following Savage Gate, some of which were based on a similar ‘who am I to judge’ logic.
Which, of course, sounds so reasonable. Except that I don’t think it’s such an extreme thing to judge what has happened on Amazon (not even getting into what happened to other authors) as wrong. And it’s not just wrong, IMO, because of what happened to Reba (although isn’t that enough?); it’s wrong, IMO, because it imperils the validity of every five star review on Amazon, ESPECIALLY those from other authors. It imperils every contest won by a Highland Press, Kensington, or Dorchester author, and every review site where any of the current players are active. Not that DAM gave a proverbial damn about any of that — I mean, aren’t endeavors like these inherently self-absorbed — but I think the effect is undeniable.
So when Gerristen chooses to make light of what I think of as a very serious pattern of ugly and aggressive behavior, it unfortunately comes across as a little bit disrespectful to authors and readers — to the whole basis of the relationship between author and book and reader and book. Is there black humor to be found in what DAM and her cronies have done? Of course. But the darkest humor is achieved when one marries the absurdity of something with its gruesomeness, and IMO Gerritsen’s posts are not in touch with either of those.
One more thing that I’ve been struggling with over the past few days: the DAM domination seems to have gone on for a LONG time, and there’s still a part of me that is working to understand why that is. And what Gerritsen’s posts offer to me by way of an inadvertent explanation is that some authors might be so, well, hostile to reviews in general (except when they are pure gush), that they would go along with what DAM was pressing for longer than they otherwise would feel comfortable with (that they were at least as afraid of moving forward career-wise as they were of DAM). I’m, NOT, mind you, saying that’s what happened, but Gerritsen’s posts make me think about how seductive some of DAM’s mindset could be, how having positive reviews and higher Amazon rankings might feel almost necessary against the understanding that none of it was quite kosher.
Check out Gerristen’s final words on the issue:
If an author as prominent as Tess Gerritsen feels so personally averse to whatever she feels are negative reviews (and was Reba’s review negative to most of us?), and if only her “better self control” is holding her back from striking out at a reader, what am I to think of an author who hasn’t secured that spot on the NYT Bestseller list and who has DAM telling her that this is how she can improve her position? That’s what Tess Gerritsen’s blog posts made me contemplate, and I hate that, because I don’t want to think that DAM stayed in power for so long because what she was doing worked for anyone except her.
So how come we all aren’t clicking the “abuse” or “unhelpful” button on every 4- or 5- star DAM review on Amazon? I mean, if that’s the way the game is played…
I like Tess Gerritsen’s books and I really don’t see any major offense here. DAM’s behavior isn’t funny, but murder, divorce, kidnapping, etc. aren’t funny either. That’s why it’s called black comedy, no? The basis is a serious, even gruesome subject.
I would agree with Tess that reviews don’t teach me anything. They’re opinions, however honest, well thought out and well written. And opinions vary. One review might find fault with a book for Specific Reason A–and make a good case for it. The next might love a book for Specific Reason A, and do the same. Which is right?
Both are, because both are opinions. Should I listen to Reviewer One or Reviewer Two? Neither, because Reviewers Three, Four and Five may have yet different opinions–which are also right. So, I should listen to me because–hey, I’m the writer.
Reviews are not for authors, they’re for readers.
To me, this is only one more reason why DAM’s manipulation and abuse is wrong, wrong, wrong. And I don’t find any humor in the situation.
Jill: The difference between black comedy and DAM’s actions is that comedy is fictional. DAM’s behaviour is having real world consequences. Tess Gerritsen’s words are shockingly crass and if she thinks being obsessed over bad reviews has the slightest thing to do with being a good author, then I am glad I have never read any book of hers and never will.
I’m still waiting for something - anything - to disprove the predictions I made here. So far Reba is the only one who has been punished, and DAM is laughing all the way to the bank, supported by her press, Amazon, her friends and a few morons who just don’t get how appalling, dishonest and dangerous her behaviour is. Although I do have to laugh at the only legal ‘threat’ made over all the hundreds and hundreds of hostile comments seems to be over something that has nothing to do with DA at all. What, Debbie, you don’t feel like using those very liberal British libel laws to shut us all up? I wonder if that’s because you would be very anxious not to have any court examining your actions and your business affairs.
Nora: I haven’t and likely will never reach your lofty heights of success, so I will say that reviews can sometimes teach me something, especially when they agree over negative points (it’s the ones which compliment or criticise the same things which make me pull my hair out.) I agree with you that reviews aren’t primarily for authors though. I want to scream every time an author bitches about a review not being ‘constructive’. Too bad - you should have looked for constructive crit before you published, because afterwards is too late.
A review is only ‘bad’ if it doesn’t tell other readers what the reviewer found fault with. I’ve read very good ‘negative’ reviews of my writing (here and here, if anyone’s interested) which I felt were balanced and well-supported, laying exactly why another reader might or might not enjoy the story. That’s exactly what I aim for in my own reviews, and I admire it when other people achieve it - even when they’re poking my babies!
I signed the petition. I don’t know why an author has to take Amazon reviews so seriously - they’re up there primarily to guide the buyers not the authors. Its usually pretty obvious when someone hasn’t read the book or thought about their review much. Thats the only thing I’d call a bad review really. Everything else is just a review doing its job, positive or negative.
I signed and a friend who doesn’t hang out online much but does buy from Amazon also signed. She did not like what DAM had done.
However, I am having a very strong reaction to Tess Gerritsen’s remarks– in part because I’ve bought and enjoyed her books for a number of years and I expect authors I enjoy to have more insight. And in part because I deal with a lot of people who have done wrong in one way or another. And the ones who have the least chance of ever becoming more responsible citizens are those who are just “sorry they got caught.” Big ole crocodile tears of self pity added.
No, in my circles “only getting caught” just means that the person “only did wrong” or there is nothing to catch.
Anyone who thinks it is a joke about someone being threatened is just as pathetic as the person who was responsible for the threat.
KristieJ and Nora sum up my stance on this. While I have a number of Tess’s books in my tbr pile, I haven’t read one yet, but I do lurk on her blog regularly and I *really* don’t think she’s condoning *at all* what DAM did.
I’ve signed the petition.
Hmmm, wonder if Ms Gerritsen would have a problem with someone who didn’t like her blog trying to find out information about her family and then make threats. Her post seems to trivialize a serious matter. Oh well, as others said there were some authors who didn’t see anything wrong with the whole plagerism scandal either.
If reviews don’t teach you anything and seeing a bad one drives you nuts (and lets face it, everyone will get a bad review once in awhile) it seems to me that the smart thing would be to ignore the reviews. Not hunt the reviewer down, threaten to set fire to her house and send a plague of locusts to her crops..
Tess used a poor choice of words, but if she isn’t doing that, just saying she knows how it can happen (if you a completely neurotic ditz), it doesn’t effect my desire to read her books.
Ann, I don’t think it has anything to do with ‘lofty heights’. It’s my stance that if a writer tries to please reader/reviewer one, she will undoubtedly displease reader/reviewer two. Now if a flood of readers/reviewers say the same basic thing, have the same basic opinion/complaint–THAT may be worth listening to.
I firmly believe we can’t write with a reader over our shoulder.
I also firmly believe that whatever works for any individual writer is absolutely correct for that writer. So those who find something to learn and apply from any review that works for them is a good thing.
From Tess’s blog I’d have to say I don’t take reviews as deeply or as personally as she does. Not that a crappy one doesn’t sting, because boy, it does. But then it’s over, and I move on. The fact that the book failed for that reader is a tough one, but there’s not a thing I can do about it but hope the next one works better for her.
I haven’t and I don’t understand the reaction to those who do.
Do I like getting negative reviews? No. When I read something alone the lines of This author couldn’t write her way out of a way paper bag, my knee jerk reaction very well may be, Oh, yeah? Can you?. I might flinch. I might wince. But then I’m going to think about the emails I get, comments people post on my blog, or conversations I’ve had with readers at booksignings.
Apparently some people think I can write my way through wet paper bags, because otherwise, I wouldn’t be selling books.
That’s enough for me.
As a reader, I haven’t loved every book I’ve read. As a writer, I can’t expect every reader to love every book I write. This isn’t the fate of the world, or a writer’s career we’re talking about. It’s just one person’s opinion.
Personally, I do think a thoughtful, critical review can be something a writer can learn from. I use too many dialogue tags and I murmur/mutter way too much in my write.
Does that mean I think about negative or critical reviews, while I’m writing? No. But when I’m going through and doing rewrites, sometimes something will catch my eye because of comments made in reviews, and I’ll address it.
But regardless, no writer can please every reader. It isn’t going to happen.
My last post on this topic: just wanted to clarify that I agree with Kristie J, however badly I phrased my comment earlier. It’s her opinion. OTOH hand Gerritsen did say that:
When you publish your opinion for Internet consumption, be prepared for the critics. That goes with the territory, too. Carry on.
From what I have read from Gerritsen’s blog, she has a deep seated distaste for the citizen review, believing that the consumer rarely has the knowledge to know good writing from bad. I sometimes believe that to be true because the Duran book, which I did not respond to well, drew raves from other authors. I got the sense that there was something I was missing in that book that others could see and if I were a writer, or trained as a writer, I would have a greater appreciation for Duran’s book.
The point I think that Gerritsen misses, or that she thinks is unimportant, is that a reader’s emotional response is a valid measurement of a book. What I mean by that is a reader, like me, will find it hard to articulate the craft issues in a book that lead to a negative emotional response. We might be able to point to only a few scenes that exemplify what we do not like about a book and then we might mis-describe our emotional response, but that doesn’t invalidate the response. It simply means we aren’t skilled enough to state exactly where the author went wrong, in our opinions.
So to that end, I see the dissonance, not in the negativity of the reviews, but in the citizen reviewers difficulty in articulating their issues with the books. It is one reason why I think that getting to know a reviewer becomes really helpful. When AAR used to be the guide for my reading purchases (particularly of unfamiliar authors), I gravitated toward certain reviewers, like AAR Rachel, because overtime I recognized that her emotional responses were likely to be similar to mine. So I was less wrapped up in what the craft issues were, but rather what her emotional response was.
I’m not sure if I am even articulating my point well. Basically I am trying to say I think that Gerritsen would rather people not discuss their emotional response in critiquing a book but I think those emotional responses have value to other readers.
Yeah, I guess there is black humor to be found in the story, if you’ve the stomach to wade through all the sewage. An author and her posse, desperate to hit the big time (or to prop up fading careers) via…Amazon reviews? That is pitiful enough to be funny, as is the utter banality of the published details of the conspiracy. Despite all their public posturing, they’re revealed as mere playground bullies.
Undercutting the fun is the thought of all the enemies on their list who have been harmed, in however minor a way, by these vendettas.
I hate bullies (small-time or otherwise) and the weakling hangers-on who enable their behavior. Roast ‘em figuratively online, of course, but boycott ‘em as well. Don’t let this childish and petty conduct pay off.
Both quite true, IMHO. Is crap all too often embraced and lauded by readers? Yes. Does their lack of discernment make their reactions less valid? No. Reactions translate into name recognition and sales, or lack thereof. Reader reactions make or break a writer’s career. That’s the long and the short of it.
I’ve learned things from reviews as well. Though, actually mostly from emails readers have sent me. I tend to use character’s names too much, and now that it’s been pointed out to me, it’s an issue I’ve worked on.
The very first negative review stung, and stung badly. Subsequent ones haven’t bothered me as much. Of course, the ones that make me question whether the reviewer read my book are annoying, but not enough to make me want to hunt anyone down.
Speaking as a reader, a writer (though as yet unpublished) and a reviewer, I think that while it is true that writing can make one more aware of craft issues when reading a book, I don’t think it means that non-writers aren’t qualified to review a book, or even that writers and non-writers will necessarily have different opinions.
Taking your example of Meredith Duran’s book, while it is true that some writers have fallen in love with the book, I’m sure there are also writers who have not, and if we aren’t hearing from them it’s more likely because many writers don’t like to put negative opinions of books in the public sphere.
At the same time, I recently discussed this book with my friend Jennie F., who has done conversational reviews here with me in the past, and though she isn’t a writer, Jennie said that she enjoyed The Duke of Shadows very much and gave it an A- grade.
There are also a slew of five star reviews of the book on Amazon (which I guarantee Meredith hasn’t done a thing to manipulate, because not only is she not the kind of person who would do so, she has also been much too busy working on her PhD and on her next book), and I doubt all those reviews on Amazon are from writers.
Actually, thinking about it further, Jennie F. and I often agree in our opinions on books even though I am a writer and she isn’t one, so I think that in itself goes to show that there’s not a clear or consistent reader/writer split when it comes to opinions of books.
Absolutely.
I think you do a very good job of articulating whether a book worked for you and why or why not, Jane. I do take your point though that writers who have taken writing classes and workshops or have read writing manuals have access to some technical terms of the craft, and can more easily discuss things like exposition, or omniscient voice, or objective correlative, or what have you.
On the other hand I also think that some terms like cliche, or narration, or dialogue, have entered the everyday lexicon of most people, and we all know what they mean, and readers can discuss them and point to them as well as writers can.
I think that is a key and crucial point with which I wholeheartedly agree.
Well, I think readers often are skilled enough to do this, but I agree with you that even when they are not, it doesn’t make that emotional response any less valid.
I signed the petition and blogged about it on myspace.
‘Cause if you wanna mobilize some folk… myspace, yo. I’m just sayin’.
Because most people have the self-control necessary to NOT sink to DAM’s level. And perhaps I’m being uncharacteristically optimistic here, but most people wouldn’t even think of using the underhanded tactics that DAM uses. If we do, then we’re no better than she is. I don’t know about other people, but I need to look at myself in the mirror every morning to put on makeup.
As for reviews, I take them all in stride–good and bad. Then again, I don’t see my writing as my baby. Honestly, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I don’t write books to please other people. I write books to please myself. Since reading taste is subjective, trying to please everyone is just not doable.
Nora hit the nail on the head for me:
I signed the petition, thanks for starting it. Bullies suck!
I’d also say that it’s a little difficult to find someone who has a review website, or who reviews for a website, who isn’t at least a little bit a writer.
Also, what percent of people with books published have degrees in English? I know it isn’t 100%.
I’m a writer, and although I’ve been peeved or nettled by what I saw as thoughtlessly negative reader reviews on Amazon and elsewhere, it would never occur to me in a million years to hold a grudge against the reader reviewer.
I enjoy Tess Gerritsen’s books, but seriously I am less likely to want to hang out with her now should we intersect at a conference or event. No, Tess, not everyone is as thin-skinned and petty as you are about this particular thing. Hate to break it to you.
Otherwise, forget the random flip-offs from strangers in traffic, and move on. :-)
Absolutely. As an author, I look for a consensus of opinion in my reviews. If I hear the same things repeatedly, then I give it some credence. Well, let me qualify that. If I consistently hear the same negatives, I give credence. Do any of us really, deep down believe the crazy-flattering, positive things readers say? I mean, seriously? I don’t think so. I think we all take that stuff with a big grain of heroi — salt.
The truth is, half the reviewers I know are writing books, and so…yes, sometimes there is a little bit of that jealousy and frustration that creeps through — why is this person getting published when I am so much better??? And there are reviewers who just get tired of hearing other reviewers fawn over a particular writer. Someone who hates Evanovich because everyone else loves her. Hey, that’s human nature. It ain’t always sapphire eyes and sweet sentiments.
But the smart writer — the healthy human — knows better than to take any of it too seriously: the good or the bad. You can’t please all the people all the time. That’s a fact. No matter how good you are, not everyone will care for your thing.
But the main deal is you never respond to a crackpot reviewer because a) you don’t want to encourage them, and b) it’s undignified.
Not that three stars is a crackpot reviewer at work. In fact, the especially puzzling thing here is that three stars is a perfectly respectable review. What kind of a nut has a meltdown over three stars?
Josh, apparently one whose pathology demands there be no dissent.
Right on, sister.
Josh, apparently one whose pathology demands there be no dissent.
I’ll just say one final thing, and then I’ve got to get back to work — this blog is waaay too tantalyzing.
For those of us writing for small and indie presses, our only real opportunity for reviews — especially at first — are citizen reviewers. Some of the smartest — and most entertaining — reviews I’ve ever read (and received) have been from citizen reviewers. These reviews — blog reviews for example — are, in my opinion, the cyber equivilent of word-of-mouth. They can’t be bought or manipulated, and I think they make a huge difference in the success of a small or indie press writer.
These are people who don’t get paid, who review strictly out of passion for the stories. That enthusiasm is priceless. And I do mean that literally.
Personally I think citizen reviewers, both at Amazon and on blogs, are changing the face of reviewing for all time. And that is not a bad thing.
I signed. :)
I’m not suggesting readers do it for spite, although that does have its appeal. I’m saying that if Amazon is rewarding DAM for her bad behavior and doing nothing but punishing Reba–the aggrieved party in this fiasco–maybe the best way to bring our issues to Amazon’s attention is to manipulate the system and mess with DAM’s (and her gang’s) numbers. Then when she goes to Amazon to complain about how there’s a campaign to ruin her career by abusing their flawed system, Amazon might actually take notice and do something to change things.
Ms Gerritsen seems to miss a huge point on her comparison of her books and children. Her books are a commodity, she is earning money from their sale. Hopefully, her children aren’t for sale.
Also, I agree reviews are for the readers (consumers) not for the writer. I don’t need to be a mechanical engineer to know a Yugo car is bad.
Or would this give credence to DAM’s claims of harassment and the like? IMHO, escalation is rarely an appropriate
solutionresponse. From what I’ve seen, a calm, rational response usually infuriates someone like DAM because she doesn’t understand why others are not as petty and vindictive as she is.EDITED because I didn’t like my initial word choice.
What would this have to do with being a writer?
You’re probably right, but it would seem like cosmic justice to change the system by using her tactics.
And hey, I’m all for infuriating the woman…
Not everyone is going to like everything you right. It’s kinda a fact of writing life.
I know as an author that work of art is your baby for a long time, but there is someone out there who is going to someday read something I write and think “This writer sucks. I can’t read past the first page of this drivel.”
Well then dear reader, move on. Nothing personal.
Just my humble opinion, but it would be better and more interesting if technical skills in reviews were equal to the emotional response. Frankly, I never really pay attention to reviews. If someone talks about a book, I check it out with several sources before I consider buying. Most books I do not buy by review, although any kind of review brings attention to a book. A friend and I used to read all the bad reviews at All About Romance, because we learned a lot more about writing from them than say average scored books and up. Reviewers are always more specific about what they don’t like than like! Of course I am a writer and skills mean as much to me as story. Example: Meredith Duran’s book.
I’ve written a few reviews on Amazon, praising books, giving 5 stars and I’ll see negative responses, which I assume are people who know and do not like me personally, and so they click *no*—smiling.
Amazon is a slick commerical site, designed to sell books to readers and make money. All rating systems could be manipulated, and not just by people who are out to remove bad reviews. Just think of the good reviews written by friends! I remember, once upon a time, a bestselling author asking friends to go review her book. This kind of stuff goes on all the time.
She’s missing the point. This was NEVER about reviews. I know very few professionals, and even very few readers, who take amazon reviews seriously. My one small book, ages ago, still has a perfect rating.
What this was about was absolutely off-the-hook behavior and blatant exploitation of the system for a variety of nefarious reasons. It was about stalking, and personal gain via blatant manipulation and threats.
It’s not about a notably faulty review system or the reviews in it. It’s about how bizarre, unprofessional, and scary a few people became in exploiting it.
Reviews don’t kill people. But we’ve discovered that nutjob psycho reviewers threaten to. So let’s boot them, eh?
Yes! I’ve always thought this was a lousy metaphor.
I like to think I bust my ass just as hard as Ms. Gerritsen when I work on a manuscript. When it’s done, I celebrate for accomplishing something I consider big. After all, I spent hours creating fictional worlds, people and plots while neglecting the real world and real people in my life so I could type THE END. However, despite my dedication in creating that book, it’s a product not a person. I might cringe at a bad review. The book won’t. It doesn’t care if it gets thrown against the wall or someone says it sucks. I as the author might, but it’s my job to stay realistic and objective about the product I created and understand, that like any other consumer good out there, my book is as much a target for criticism as for praise.
Bad reviews suck. We’d all like to think we’ll write something everyone will love. Realistically, that will never happen. Austen, Bronte, Shakespeare, Twain and Fenimore-Cooper all had their detractors. So will the rest of us. It comes with the territory. I’m sure if Fenimore-Cooper would have called Twain out as an illiterate slut (yes, I got the SNL nod) for the roasting he got on The Leatherstocking Tales (and Twain is unequaled in roasting people, IMO), I’m sure dear old Sam would have handed James’s ass back to him in pieces and told him to suck it up.
Sorry, but I don’t fit into Gerritsen’s general assumption. I didn’t like some of the reviews I received, but I’ve never felt strongly enough about them to stab voodoo dolls, fantasize about calling reviewers names and certinaly never entertained the thought of stalking anyone. I created a product and put it up for sale. Someone bought it. At that point, I believe that reader/consumer has every right to express their opinion, good or bad, about the item they bought with their hard-earned cash. Some commentary is useful, some not, but unless it dips inappropriately into personal territory (flames, name-calling), the reviewer’s remarks are valid IMO.
I signed the petition. Keeping my fingers crossed that Amazon will at least blink at it.
You’re articulating your point well, Jane. While I don’t find Gerritsen’s comments shocking or inappropriate, I agree with you here. A reader’s emotional response doesn’t just have value, it’s everything.
I don’t buy the crazy weed that says that only authors have the authority to write a review. Are you writing your book for other authors or are you writing your book for readers to enjoy? I think it is terribly elitest to claim that just because you are not part of the biz, you don’t have what it takes, nor do you have the right to, write a well thought out review.
I have to say after reading Tess Gerritsen’s blog from the links you left I was a little irritated. I’m all for taking responsibility for your opinions, but who in their right mind would post their personal information on the internet just to prove they’re not scared of owning their own words? I may enjoy posting at here and at Smart Bitches but I’m certainly not going to post all my information out there for everyone to see. That would be stupid and just invite psychos.
I’m not a writer and definitely don’t want to be one, but I am a reader. I understand that the author may be hurt by bad reviews but your book is just a product. I say that meaning no disrespect, but it’s true. (keep in mind that I mean this only from a reader standpoint) Once you’ve published your book it is just a product to be consumed by me. When I don’t like a book I don’t temper my view by thinking about how long it took you to write it. Maybe someone else loves it but the point is that I didn’t. I don’t expect you to care about my opinion on it, but don’t expect me to care that you regard it with the same level of affection that you do your own kids.
I just don’t understand how someone can take it so personally that they would lash out at the reader. It may sound harsh but I really think a lot of authors need to develop thicker skin. It’s a business! I don’t stalk my boss when he says the proposal that I spent forever working on isn’t good enough and needs more work. I move on because it’s my job.
I know I sound down on authors but I’m not. What I’m trying to say is that I have just as little emotional attachment to their feelings as they do to me. When I say I love Nora Roberts (and I only use her name because almost everyone has heard of her and she’s the only author that I started reading in junior high and still love to this day) I mean I love the product that is associated with her name. I don’t know her so I can’t say I love her, only what her name represents to me. When I dislike an author I mean I dislike the products I associate with you. It’s nothing personal it’s actually VERY impersonal. I think of authors the same way I do any name brand. I consume your product but have no concept of you beyond a shadowing figure behind your name. Reviews and opinions are just for other readers that may have the same quirks about what bothers them in a story. They just want someone to connect with so they can see if they’ll be wasting their money or not. It’s nothing personal.
Not only that, it is often true that the very same writers who say only other writers’ opinions of books are valid, don’t put their own opinions of books out there unless those opinions are positive.
If (A) only writers are qualified to review books and if we therefore had a world where only writers reviewed, and (B) writers in that world would not put out any negative reviews, then it follows that (C) all the reviews in that world would be positive.
Think about that: a world where books were only extolled and never criticized. How would we be able to know what books to buy?
I signed the petition because I find this entire situation appalling, including Tess Gerritsen’s response on her blog.
As I said on the other thread on this topic, I’m an avid reader. I’m also an occasional reviewer. I’m moved to write my opinion on a book when I’ve either been very stirred by it or quite disappointed by an author whose works I have loved in the past.
Not being an author (and no real aspirations beyond a “gee, maybe someday,” or “I could write better than THAT,”) I know that I do not and will not ever fully understand the mental and emotional input that goes into producing good work. And I fully agree with those authors who have posted here that they cannot produce books for their critics, but must write for themselves.
But people like me, as individuals who spend our very hard-won money for a book, want to at least feel that our voice is heard by someone. My example of this is the whole LKH situation, where for many of us a much beloved character, developed over a series of truly engaging books, was gutted and turned into a horrific parody—from strong moralist to walking vagina. Our massive cry of “oh please no!” was not only ignored, it was derided. We were told that our opinions were completely worthless because these books weren’t being written for US, but for LKH and if we didn’t like them, we must not like to think too deeply. But presumably LKH makes her living from us. So my contention has been that when there’s a massive outcry about a book or series from its readers, perhaps the author might want to take note.
OTOH Ms. Roberts is quite right. Reviews are for the readers. And unlike some of you, I *have* used the Amazon review system heavily over the past few years to determine whether or not I want to try a new author. As I said in the other thread, I’ve found some amazing authors such as Ilona Andrews and Patricia Briggs that way. And I’ve been really disappointed a few times. I was putting that up to different tastes. Now I suspect the whole system. As a non-insider, I have no other real guide to help me find great new fiction in the genre’s I love. So I admit I’m feeling all asea over this whole thing, and I bet I end up missing some really worthy books because of it.
DAM is about right. Add an ‘n’ and you get my feelings on it.
Janine, I just agree. Negative reviews give meaning to the positive ones. I buy from Amazon reviews. If the negative ones were routinely deleted by heartsick authors, there’d be no point looking at them.
(My own children have had the odd dodgy review. But who really needs Additional Maths?)
It’s one thing to write for yourself (this, I wholeheartedly agree with); it’s another thing entirely to criticize readers for their response to your writing (this makes me stop buying your books).
Not from me, she doesn’t. Not anymore, at least.
Then I’d be getting all my books from the library and there’d be a lot less authors writing for a living.
I have signed a petition and emailed Amazon to no avail. I am new to posting here, I usually post over at Amazon. At this point I am doubtful that anything subtantial is going to change at Amazon despite our outrage. Please check out the Reba Update thread, and Help My Reviews are being deleted thread at Amazon (romance forum). I am saying this not to be a gloomy guss but to perhaps suggest that this needs to be brought to the attention of the media and interested political attorney generals. This is an election year and cyber bullying is a relevent topic. I think once Amazon finds itself smack dab in the middle of a major controversy, with words like harrasment, stalking and cyberbullying mabey then they will take some positive action. I also want to know if Reba would be ok with this, I am ready to write a letter to the State Attorney General for the State that Amazon is based out of and send an email to media, but I am not the one that was subjected to the harassment. What do you think Reba?
I don’t think you are alone in this, Jane. I very much judge a romance by the emotional response it elicits in me.
And no matter how technical a review gets, it’s still about one thing. Did the book hit you in the right place?
~Did the book hit you in the right place?~
Agree squared.
And that right place will often vary from reader to reader. Just another reason why reviews are for readers, reviews are subjective, reviews are about how THAT book hit THAT reader. Or didn’t.
I write for a living, and I very much appreciate craft, beautiful language–or the strong, sure use of language. But I can easily find a book that has excellent craft, a strong use of language, and doesn’t hit me in the right emotional spot.
Not a bad book, just not the book for me.
Admittedly I can find a book that hits me emotionally, but is so poorly written–imo–it diminishes the rush. So that’s not the book for me, either.
But as I said on the other thread, this whole DAM/Amazon deal was never about reviews. It was and is about an individual’s need for power and control, and her complete disregard for others. It’s always about power and control with bullies.
I signed the petition.
Nora, I agree with you about how a book hits you emotionally. If that isn’t present, it’s worthless to me.
I think Tess Gerritsen was having some fun. I don’t think we should get too upset about it. Save being upset for Amazon and DAM.
I will not be signing the petition. I am inclined to actually do the opposite the more you enshrine Reba as some kind of saint.
I have silently been watching the earlier trashfest for a while. Quite a few of you have done exactly what the author Deborah MacGillivray is accused of doing. The responses here have been way out of control. Off this site, I saw you all whip up mob mentality so that positive reviews of this author trashed and silly negative reviews posted, well-timed to the threads here in such numbers that the reviews were not even read and the negative reviews were not truly about the book but just slams about the author. Hmm… so what is all this talk about how awful Amazon review system is? It is awful, but not when you use it for own personal vendettas? Or all this talk about how a reader should be able to post their reviews without retribution? But somehow it is fine when it is YOU doing the retribution. You don’t even have to read the reviews because YOU are an omnipotent all-knowing judge. Two wrongs do not make a right.
I have seen a serious lack of moderation from this website that let everything degenerate to a lynch mob mentality.
Reba is making quite a name for herself with her claims and irresponsible out of control behavior. As is this website. If she is being stalked common sense says to call the authorities, not whine about what a poor martyr you are to get attention. Amazon banned her. She can whine poor me all she wants but Amazon did this for a reason. Just because she whines doesn’t mean she did not do something that warranted this action even if YOU do not know the reason. Amazon does not owe her or anyone an explanation. It is their website. You can bet Amazon looked into what Reba was doing. It’s Amazon’s website, not Reba’s personal podium, and when you go to Amazon, you play by their rules. Seeing the quickness of Amazon’s action, it casts suspicion on the veracity of her claims of how slow Amazon is to investigate. Amazon tracks everything that happens on their website.
Two wrongs do not make a right. At first I was horrified by the accusations made against Deborah MacGillivray but right now I am just as horrified by the immoderate actions of people ranting about her photos and where she lives etc. that pose more questions to this whole mess. I want a lot more information before I make a decision. Unfortunately the mob mentality as witnessed here with one or two exceptions has led me to believe that this website is not a good well-balanced source of information for making decisions.
Not one instance of verifiable proof has been provided to substantiate anything and it can’t be done in this setting. I will opt out of this lynching with a reader.
I will not be signing the petition. I am inclined to actually do the opposite the more you enshrine Reba as some kind of saint.
I’d be more inclined to respect your opinion if you had the guts to sign your name.
Quite a few of you have done exactly what the author Deborah MacGillivray is accused of doing.
Quite a few people have done exactly what the author Deborah MacGillivray is accused of doing, but how do you know that they are people who post here? This story is on a lot of blogs and websites. The person who posted the 1-star review accusing the author of cheating certainly wasn’t a poster here.
Just because she whines doesn’t mean she did not do something that warranted this action even if YOU do not know the reason.
Actually, we DO know the reason, so does Reba, who has shown considerable remorse. Our basic problem is that, in meting out the punishment, Amazon failed in any way to take into account the provocation that triggered Reba’s actions. Not only that, but Amazon have so far failed to deal with the perpetrator of that provocation.
Two wrongs do not make a right.
We agree on that much, at least. But whose is the bigger wrong?
At first I was horrified by the accusations made against Deborah MacGillivray
So those accusations don’t horrify you now?
Seeing the quickness of Amazon’s action, it casts suspicion on the veracity of her claims of how slow Amazon is to investigate.
While Amazon dealt with Reba summarily, they’ve not been in any hurry to investigate the perpetrator, even though they know that Reba has filed legal papers.
Ignore this… just editing to delete a duplicate post. Sorry.
I’m confused, where did people talk about where MacGillivray lives or her photos? Or did I misunderstand that statement? Is there another thread running around here that I missed?
There are two previous threads. One is titled “Author DeborahAnne MacGillivray Harasses Amazon Reader ” (see link at top right). That thread is itself a continuation of “Highland Press Warnings”.
Thanks.
Jane wrote:
But that’s not really the job of a reviewer, is it? Reviews are primarily written for readers, after all. They aren’t meant to take the place of the author’s crit group or crit partner, even though they might contain criticism which the author might find helpful.
And the old “my books are my children” metaphor? By now I can’t help chuckling whenever it pops up somewhere because inevitably I think of a certain passage of Thackeray’s “The Newcomes” (published in the 1850s!!!) that starts with: “I think I see such a [critic] — a Solomon that sits in judgment over us authors, and chops up our children.” In other words, that metaphor is such an old hat!
Of course, bad reviews smart. Of course, I yelled at my computer when I first saw certain amazon reviews of “Castle” (No, I did NOT put electrical lights on that 1827 Christmas tree, you [add unflattering name]!!!), but beyond that? Eat some chocolate, if need be; vent your anger on the hapless dust bunnies; watch the final scene of North & South to cheer yourself up; and then just let it go. Life is simply too short to agonize over a review on amazon.
We periodically have discussions of how much to moderate various discussion threads here at Dear Author on our email loop. It is always a very difficult decision and speaking only for myself, I often weigh in on the side of freedom of speech even when I don’t like or agree with what is being said on the site.
Jane has made an effort to redirect the conversation in a constructive direction with posts on how Amazon’s reviews system could be improved upon, and on all the positive things going on in the online romance community right now.
But there is really only so much the Dear Author bloggers can do about what other people post, and still nurture an atmosphere where people can converse freely and openly. I think doing the latter is valuable since I generally view censorship as something that can do more harm than good.
To the two anon readers: Using the word ‘lynching’ regarding the expressions of disgust and attempts to support the many victims of Deborah MacGillivray - not just Reba, but other bullied reviewers and hapless authors - is dangerous and offensive hyperbole. The worst DAM is going to suffer is a blow to the ego (and I would hope, some legal investigation). Not exactly the same as being strung up from a poplar tree. Not exactly the same as having your family threatened either.
I couldn’t give a toss if DAM gets all butthurt, or exposes herself to investigations. My sympathies lie with those she’s threatened, and those she’s cheated. All Reba did was choose a method of trying to expose this appalling woman’s appalling actions, which violated Amazon’s rules. Not broke the actual *law*, which DAM did.
Blaming the victim is graceless and vicious. And in your case, gutless. Sign your name, own your views.
Nora: I reread what I wrote and realised I’d come off sounding snotty. I apologise for that. I only meant that at your stage in your career, you have editors and confidence in your craft which I don’t have, so I have to rely heavily on the feedback I get on my writing. Often the views are too conflicting or untutored to be much use, but because I have a number of readers who write as well or better than I do, I frequently pick up useful advice from them. Also, it never hurts for me to see how well some experimental idea or technique works. I’m still a newbie at this game.
On the subject of author’s feelings versus reader response, I wrote a piece last year in which I said:
I think Tess Gerritsen and DAM need to learn that lesson. If you want unconditional adoration of your writing, that’s what your mother is for. Snotty reviews hurt, but that’s what you use your private journals and private emails to vent about and get it out of your system. Tracking your critics down and killing their dogs, metaphorically, mean you’ve lost all sense of proportion
Ann, I know you are a writer, but I think you demean your craft when you compare buying a book to buying a toaster. Yes, someone had to conceive of the idea of a toaster, then create one. But after that, millions of them, all identical, can be turned out from a factory.
While I’ve read some books that seem factory-made, most are unique. Some are lovely, some are poetic, some flow past like a stream. Ok, a few are awful. But even the bad ones transport me to a different place, show me different outlooks, teach me new ideas.
My toaster just turns my bread brown (well. . . black. It has 15 different done-ness settings all of which burn the bread if you don’t watch it like a hawk.) Since I hate putting PBJ on plain bread, I use my toaster.
But I love books. They’re not a hobby, they’re a necessity. I read every day, because I love the printed word. I consider well-written books to be as much art as any painting. Just painted with words, not lines.
Of course, like the guy said upthread, opinions are like a**holes, but that’s mine.
Throwmearope: Did you read the whole article?
My point is that everyone who creates, invests emotional and intellectual energy, whether it’s in a better toaster or a wonderful book. But then the item is mass produced (either in a factory or in a printing house) and released to a consumer overwhelmed with choices. The emotional connection the creator has with the product, isn’t the same as the consumer’s connection with the product. Sure, a good book is going to be more intellectually and emotionally fulfilling than a toaster, but if it’s a bad book, I have no more compunction in telling a friend it’s tripe and avoid it, than I would in telling that friend the toaster I bought is garbage. I don’t connect with the creator, I only connect with the experience I have personally with the item. User reviews report on that experience, and aren’t meant to be part of enhancing the creator’s experience. The mistake too many of us creative types make is in thinking that they are.
This seems like Deja Vu. Questioning a reader?
I read the excerpt that was posted, I didn’t follow the link to the entire article. But that’s ok, I like it when a published author smacks back at me. The first time an author snapped at me on the SB site, I squee’ed all over myself.
I realize authors are just people, but I think the act of creativity transcends the mundane. And trust me, toasters are mundane.
ETA: Not that I want anyone stalking me or anything like that. But a snappy retort–I’m cool with that.
I just wanted to know if Throwmearope had read only what I’d quoted, or the whole article. There was more to my point than what I’d quoted. Her points were quite valid, but I don’t think my article argued against them.
You’re trying to conflate my dialogue with a reader with what DAM is doing to critics. For what purpose, I can only speculate.
Who are you again?
Throwmearope: I’m sorry if I came off as trying to smack you. I wasn’t. I thought you made some good points. I didn’t feel that they were necessarily in contradiction with the points I made. More a different aspect of the entire creative/consumer response issue.
[I should point out too that I am only self-published - at least until May 13 this year!]
Toasters might be mundane, but the process of creating one isn’t. As you’ve found, getting it wrong is as common as writing an unentertaining novel, but just as no one sets out to write crap, no one sets out to make a bad toaster. The intent, however, doesn’t change the reader’s experience. They’re still stuck with a lousy romance and burnt toast.
When a group of people are united in their outrage over what they believe is wrong or offensive, those who don’t share that outrage–or are connected to the parties found offensive–tend to refer to the group as a lynch mob. Which I take as shorthand for: you’re all a bunch of brainless meanie sheep.
And on the internet, they tend to do it anonymously, thereby having the freedom to say whatever they like about whomever they like with impunity.
I’m not holding a rope. I’ve written no reviews, done no clicking, and every comment I’ve made has been made under my name. And I believe, based on what I’ve read here and on Amazon–some of which were DAM’s own written words posted on Amazon’s forum–that DAM should face consequences for her actions. From the information I’ve read and weighed, it’s my opinion Amazon has acted incorrectly thus far in this situation.
I signed the petition.
I can and do think for myself.
It’s my stance that if a writer tries to please reader/reviewer one, she will undoubtedly displease reader/reviewer two.
I am one of those “overly sensitive” authors who gets fairly messed up over negative reviews. Realizing this, I purposefully avoided being published for decades–I knew I couldn’t stand the heat. As the proud (?) recipient of a 2-star RT review, I can understand where Tess is coming from when she opines that she wishes she could lash back–has no ever ranted and raved in the privacy of their own home against a reviewer who got your decade/intent/brand of prophylactic wrong? Or someone who plain old didn’t care for explicit sex, gore, or quirky characters?
But there’s the rub: preferably it’s the privacy of your own home, or to your fiends, where you rant. I’ve always known it’s a cardinal no-no in the publishing world to even respond to a reviewer, whether that review is good or bad, much less threaten them. It’s just not done. It’s never even occurred to me to do that.
True, we can avoid googling ourselves and searching for reviews, and believe you me, I now do avoid googling myself. I’m learning to “suck it up” and work within the parameters of my own particular thin-skinnedness (thin skinniness?). After throwing my WIP across the room, then shoving it under the bed and tossing all research books into the closet, I get it out of my system…after a few weeks… :)
But yeah, these (PW, RT, AAR, HNS) are “legitimate” reviews by critics in the know–negative Amazon reviews are more easily shrugged off and not taken so to heart.
While I agree with the concept that reviews are for readers, authors also need to utilize them for their websites, as blurbs on book covers, and to send our publishers. That is why we sometimes google for them, because we often aren’t even told they’re posted yet.
I firmly believe we can’t write with a reader over our shoulder.
Thank you, thank you, I’m printing that and taping it to my monitor. I’ve been writing with a reader looking over my shoulder lately: “Hey what a great idea–oops, someone won’t like that. What about–nope, people who wear hats won’t like that. Hey, how’s about–nope, robotic cyborgs from Planet 9 will take offense with that.” It just gets ridiculous, and can definitely stymie the creative process.
And isn’t that why we’re writers to begin with–we’re creative, and oftentimes sensitive? Of course, fiction writing is a business where we sell a commodity, but it’s a business peopled by artistic impressionable folks who basically sit alone all day in sweatpants envisioning what it’d be like to whack a pirate with a Persian shamshir. So some emotion is bound to enter into the picture when an injustice gets us riled.
I agree with you 100%, Nora. These accusations are really insulting because the majority consensus from posters on this issue has been that, in Ann Bruce’s words, it is “petty and vindictive” to resort to DAM’s tactics of personally threatening people who don’t agree with her or posting fake reviews (to either insult or praise an author). Most of us have also signed our posts with our real names–many people on here who are also authors.
Yes, one commenter pointed out how easy it is to obtain personal information on DAM through the internet and suggested that we could give her a taste of her own medicine very easily to make her understand how serious and frightening her own private detective work on Reba truly was. But more than a few posters dissuaded this line of argument because most of us agree that it isn’t appropriate and it is exactly these kind of personally threatening tactics that we are so vehemently arguing against.
I, for one, am personally insulted by your posts, anon, because you’ve come in here and made blanket generalizations about the majority of posters on this issue which are completely untrue and not to mention insulting. I’d never heard of Deborah until this issue came up but I’ve seen the evidence with my own two eyes and I believe what she did is wrong and that she should face consequences for it. I will never read or buy one of her books. Therefore, understandably, I will never review one of her books. I don’t care if my favourite author or my personal idol stands up tomorrow and defends DAM, I will still think her behaviour is despicable.
I may only be a reader but I can think for myself. And yes, I did sign the petition under my own name: Erin Johns.
On the subject of anonymity, I have this to say.
I know of people who had bad experiences as a result of using the internet and I respect their desire to avoid using their real names, where they have an identifiable pseudonym that they use whenever they participate. Anybody who comes across these pseudonyms can use Google to find those other places on the internet.
Those who simply use pseudonyms (especially untraceable identities like anon) to express strong opinions have to be judged accordingly. Even where I agree with them, I know that I cannot regard them as well as I would if they were more open.
As for myself, I started posting anonymously because I wasn’t sure if it was a safe place or not, but even then I had an identifiable pseudonym. Eventually, I decided that if anybody who knew me personally were to discover my ramblings on the internet, they’d eventually figure out it was me anyway, so I abandoned anonymity.
Eventually, I realized that as there are a lot of people in the world called Peter Harris, several of whom are on Wikipedia, it was actually quite difficult sometimes to find stuff relating to me. Hence I now use my middle name away from Amazon. No other Peter Harris on the internet shares my middle name. If another one (or an imposter) shows up, so be it, but meanwhile I’ve complete exposed myself to any dangers that may arise. So far, it’s not been a problem.
On Amazon, I am listed as P D Harris “Pete the music and horse racing fan” (Leicester, Engfland). In its way, that is just unique as Peter Durward Harris. I’d still like to use my full name on Amazon, but if I change the P D Harris, I’ll lose my “Real Name” badge. Nobody has ever figured out the significance of this badge, but Amazon have intimated that the presence or absence of a “Real Name” may affect product page placement of the writer’s reviews. In other words, I might end up with fewer spotlighted reviews if I lose my badge. So the other way to show my full name would be to lose my other moniker (which I don’t want to, because that’s the way a lot of customers remember me) or to add my full name to the moniker (which would not look good - it would be clumsy and untidy). Amazon only accept “Real Name” details taken from credit cards. I still had two at the time the system was introduced, but had them taken away a month later when I was declared bankrupt. If I ever manage to get another credit card and I can get it to say something better than “P D Harris”, I’ll be able to put that on my Amazon reviews and still keep my “Real Name” badge. I rather suspect I’ll have to settle for Peter D Harris, but that would be OK.
One way or another, my internet identity keeps me from going over the top. I know that any troblemaker - or any potential employer - can easily find whatever I’ve put out there. So I just make sure that if I really don’t want something to come back to haunt me, I don’t put it anywhere on the internet. It’s that simple. It doesn’t stop me putting strong views across where I feel the need arises, but it does mean that I restrain myself in ways that I might not in a verbal exchange.
Ann Bruce:
Late and irrelevant, I know, but the mention of an English degree was referring to what Jane said about a “trained writer”. How do writers get training? Workshops, classes, even degrees in writing and MFAs. Or, if a fiction writer can learn to be a writer by just doing it (as many do), why can’t someone who is a review writer?
I went back and read the only Amazon reviews I ever posted. All four (I’m a piker compared to some of you) expressed my reaction as a reader to a) the advertising for the book versus the actual content, b) the content of the book, and c) the execution of the book’s central idea(s).
Were my reviews meant for the writers? Only insofar as I praised them and didn’t feel like going to their websites to say so. And only insofar as I criticized them for not delivering on the implied promises of their books. My reviews were posted because I wanted to enlighten other potential readers, to tell them, yes, this is a neat book, or no, this does not do what it says it will. If the writers were offended, too bad. I am offended as a consumer when I plunk down my money for a product that does not live up to its advertising.
I also am a writer, and I know that I am personally rather sensitive to criticism. But I view that as a flaw in myself, not an admirable quality that should be enshrined as proof that I am a creative type. Anybody seriously thinking about voodoo dolls ought to grow up. You cannot control the world, only yourself.
At base, the reason we’re so sensitive about our writing is that it is self-revelatory. I didn’t put my baby out there for you to criticize; I put myself. And that’s what hurts. Until we stop and think, well, but maybe I wasn’t at my best. Or maybe this reader just doesn’t like me, and so what? Or maybe it was an off day for both of us. And so on.
I have used Amazon reviews to evaluate expensive music products, electronics about whose technology I knew nothing, and more. The reviews have proved very valuable to me, especially the negative comments. The more specific the comments are, the more helpful they are. So I am grateful to reviewers who take the time to explain what went wrong for them. Even if it’s a novel and they just did not like the snippy heroine and bland hero.
I enjoy Tess Gerritsen’s books, but seriously I am less likely to want to hang out with her now should we intersect at a conference or event.
That would be unfortunate. Tess is a blast to hang out with, and one of the kindest people I’ve ever met in this business.
And for the record, I thought DAM’s reaction was psychotic.
Nor should you, IMO. Ever.
In my ideal world, authors write what they’re inspired to, and readers respond as they’re inspired to. And we do that in a parallel fashion, with reader and book in dialogue but NOT negotiation. I don’t think less of an author who doesn’t read reviews of their work, and I don’t EVER want the burden of having an impact on an author’s writing UNLESS I’m personally asked to provide that kind of critique. I want readers and authors to have the greatest possible freedom, and I think that comes only when we’re each acting from an autonomous space.
Will that mean that a negative review might sting? Of course. As much as I believe that I am talking only about a book when I write a review, I know that as a human being, an author might smart from something I have to say. However, as I’m not writing my reviews for authors, I don’t really want to think about the author as I’m writing them. However, that doesn’t mean I won’t show respect to the BOOK as a reviewer.
And similarly, I don’t want authors thinking about anything I (and I use that pronoun generally — I don’t really think my opinion matters much to anyone but myself, outside, that is, of situations where I haven’t been asked or paid for it) might have said about their book. That doesn’t mean we won’t affect each other if we interact directly, and it doesn’t mean I won’t express my opinion, but I’m primarily articulating that opinion because I have it and feel strongly about it.
I didn’t really think all this out until I started reviewing, and I know it’s changed how I see authors, a bit, forcing a wider separation than I might otherwise have. I know that once my review comes out that an author might see it, but I don’t want to breach what I see as my responsibility to a) the book, and b) other readers, by bringing the author into my reviewing process. So it would be weird to think that authors should bring readers into their writing process.
But didn’t those accusations come in the ironic context of complaining about baseless accusations? I’m only surprised that it took a while for the nasty grams to start arriving, and I’m not surprised at their direction, because they’re similar, IMO, to the stuff that was being said about those of us who were outraged at the Cassie Edwards situation, too (and DAM was waving that flag with righteous vigor, IIRC). That some people might be doing whatever on Amazon is probably inevitable, but I know it’s not something that the vast majority of us here have advocated or participated in, because, hey, if that’s the path we felt comfortable taking, we could have skipped all the public discourse — like, you know, DAM and her friends have (except for the public and semi-public threats and pleas, of course) — and gone for the subterfuge.
Hi,
I have to disagree with you assesment areader. I don’t think Reba is trying to play the role of an attention grabbing matyr or a saint. Quite frankly, I imagine if Reba had her druthers none of this would have happened to her at all.
When Reba initally started having problems with her review, she came to the Romance Forum (Amazon) and discussed it. After reading through the thread and seeing it get openly hostile, I made a personal choice not to purchase any thing from the author in question. That was sometime last summer. In 2007.
It wasn’t until another participant in the forum started the thread Help My Review is Being Deleted, in the spring of 2008 that Reba stepped forward and let everyone know what had been happening to her. These are not the actions of a person seeking the limelight. She has been apparently quietly trying to work within the system and I don’t really blame her or discount her for speaking up.
I haven’t read all of the threads here yet, but I do know from postings on romance forum that Reba does not want anyone to stoop to the level of DAM. And there is not a THING wrong with wanting Amazon, in light of what has happened to hold everyone to the same standard and take positive action.
DAM’s own words damned (pun intended) her plenty. The Google cache of her deleted comments told me all I needed to know about how she operates. Everything else was just a confirmation.
And I’m still hoping to hear some kind of explanation/apology from Catherine Spangler. That she hasn’t responded is very disappointing to me.
I have to admit that I really am appalled by the reaction to Tess’s comments. I have been reading her blog for almost a year and a half, and I find her candidness and honesty refreshing. So she doesn’t like to read bad reviews, who would? She never ONCE condoned what Deborah Anne MacGillivray did, and only said that she could understand the urge of wanting to find out who was trashing her… that’s all.
Jane, I wonder how you would react in a similar situation in your own profession? Would you just be happy to take criticism, or would you feel burned by it and want to know who said it? Would you ever go to the lengths that DAM did? Of course you wouldn’t, and neither would Tess. But you can’t honestly tell me you don’t understand where she was coming from? I think anyone who says otherwise is lying.
I applaud Tess for having the courage to say what she thinks, and I hope she continues to do so in the future.
Kyle K -
I, too, hope that Ms. Gerritsen keeps blogging. I actually think its foolish if she allows a few comments here that disagree with her stance on things to drive her away from blogging. I also think its a bit (not sure what the appropriate word is here) rude? inappropriate? for her to claim that Dear Author is the reason that she would stop blogging.
But I think we are conflating a couple of things here.
1. I disagree with your characterization of Ms. Gerritsen’s statements and “understanding the urge of wanting to find out who was trashing her.” Reba Belle’s review was three stars and hardly a trashing review. Ms. Gerritsen’s statement that DAM’s major foolishness is getting caught does seem to condone the action. It implies that she would find DAM’s actions reasonable if only she hadn’t gotten caught doing it. What DAM did at best is unethical and at worst is felonious. The idea that authors think it is appr