Author DeborahAnne MacGillivray Harasses Amazon Reader
By Jane • Apr 10th, 2008 • Category: Letters of Opinion, Misc • •Apparently, there appears to be a breakdown in the comment box on the previous thread. Ms. MacGillivray was the recipient of a three star review on Amazon. She chastises the reader for not understanding the book correctly.
Reba,
Thank you for letting me know you enjoyed “A Restless Knight” so much you read it twice. It’s always nice to hear this. I appreciate when people take the time from their busy lives to let me know what they feel about my books. Sorry, you didn’t let me know before. As it was my debut book, I was very interested in responses.
I think perhaps, as Anne posted, that you are a bit too much in love with Challon, and thus resistant to Damian. It does me credit that I can create a character who conjures such loyalty from you.
….
However, I fear you did missed the point of Damian wanting to fight Dirk. He was not fighting for Tamlyn, he was going to take Challon’s place - to protect Challon.
…
I am think you skimmed the book, sitting in an auto place, worry about big bad men sniggering, and didn’t bother to see why the characters did things, just took surface reactions. You are keying into Aithinne’s POV, which at many times is not accurate to what was really happening.
…..
And where you got he was hung up on Tamlyn by the middle of the, that is SOOOOO wrong. He knew from his return he was mean for Aithinne, she was THE ONE. You are reading your quick assessment into that. He was NOT hung on on Tamlyn at any point after his return and he saw Aithinne. For you to keep saying that, shows how totally you are missing the true emotions of these characters.
As for accusing Athinne of asking Dirk into her room - he is MALE. Male do silly thinks when they are upset and jealous. This is so TM - Typically male. Men do silly things at times of high emotions. Damian is human, not perfect.
…
P.S. Thank everyone for the lively discussion. Sales have jumped!
She has since deleted the review, but not before it came to light that MacGillivray uses yahoogroups and author groups to encourage, browbeat, or by other means, individuals into taking down negative reviews by reporting that the review is a) not helpful and b) abuse. MacGillivray also appears to have taken even further steps to ascertain personal information about Reba
2c. Re: vote down this bitch please
Posted by: “DeborahAnne MacGillivray”
writer@DeborahMacGIllivray.co.uk scotladywriter
Date: Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:17 pm ((PDT))
Well, thanks to XXXXXX our PI , we now have her name, her husband’s
name, her chidrens’ names, her grannies and great grannies name. Her
address phone number and email
lol…quite interesting.
Hilary Sares, MacGillivray’s Kensington editor, purportedly ” is very aware of this situation and said only people with nothing better to do plays in this mess.”
As a reader, I hope that this is not true, that an editor wouldn’t be so cavalier about an author hunting down a reader’s personal information in this manner. I also hope that MacGillivray and her pals would stop using the Amazon system as their own little playground. This sort of thing works to devalue the very product that MacGillivray is working so hard to build up. I’ll be blogging more about this on Sunday.
Jane is a long time romance reader whose passion is, you guessed it, reading. Jane also does not like to talk about herself in the third person, but apparently this is the way that this biography thing works (although in a true biography, someone else would be writing this blurb). Anyway, currently Jane loves urban fantasy authors Patricia Briggs and Ilona Andrews. She's really excited about this year's crop of historicals including Joanna Bourne's The Spymaster's Lady and Sherry Thomas' Private Arrangements and the upcoming Loretta Chase Her Scandalous Ways.
She's looking for a good contemporary author. Email her with a recommendation!
Email this author | All posts by Jane
Based on comments from the last thread concerning Highland Press warning and DeborahAnne MacGillivray…………..
I saw the dialogue on The Romance Room between DAM and Meagan. MacGillivray was up to her old tricks. And one of the Witches of Eastwick backed her. No one from HP has yet addressed the situation. However, MacG is conducting business as normal on TRR, CataNetwork-Authors and CataNetwork-Readers, and other loops where both readers and authors correspond. I wonder what the people on these loops would think if they were directed to Dear Author.
Really? Seriously? Wow. I’m not even going to discuss the typo. I can’t get past the author’s assumption that this reader is some easily cowed female. Nice way to play to the stereotype. I’ve never knowingly read Macgillvray and I certainly won’t now.
For the first time, I’m posting anonymously here. But I wanted to say that writing those letters work. Don’t know if you remember, but PW carried a story about a small press that wasn’t paying its authors ( and actually sued a couple of them), but had a nice distributing deal with Kensington. Some of those authors banded together and wrote letters to that publisher, copying RWA and Kensington. The publisher was kicked out of RWA and disinvited to the national conference. Amazingly, authors started getting paid. The house is now recognized again. And it all started with authors uniting and saying enough is enough, then doing something about it.
Still in awe, I’m just subscribing to this one.
~~Becka
What is the matter with this woman? She is up in arms over someone posting a review over at Amazon?
She needs to get over it!
My god, this has gone from unbelievable, to batshit crazy to…a level I can’t even find an appropriate description for.
Karen Scott also has a nice compilation of Google Cached documents wherein DAM states she is co-publisher of Highland Press, a fact she is now denying.
I agree with the anon about letters. IMO, it’s reached the point where this is far more serious that simple blog fodder. If the folks at Berkley and Kensington aren’t aware of this behavior, they need to be, because it’s gone beyond unprofessional and into criminal. No matter what anyone else says, it does reflect poorly on them as well (not unlike when Cassie Edwards’ publisher defended her, only to backpedal later, though as detestable as plagiarism is, I believe harassment and threats to a reviewer are worse).
Someone needs to Baker Act this nutjob.
So, so not ever dealing with Highland Press. Hell, I don’t even have an interest in Kensington if I have to deal with this woman.
I liked the original title for this second thread better. It might have gotten both Kensington’s and Dorchester’s attention and maybe we would have seen some statement or a disassociation of these publishing houses from this person.
I only had one ‘interaction’ with her when I tried to jumpstart some discussion about Cassiegate on one list she’s on and she shut the thread down with one sentence (and no she’s not the owner of the list)… amazing what people let other people get away with.
Katie — Completely skips Sane-ville and jumps straight into insanity, doesn’t it?
None of Ms. MacGillivray’s comments surprise me. I had several run ins with her on the now I assume defunct Reviewers International Organization. I actually saved all of her emails and ravings to me in case I ever needed them for legal purposes. She is all that is pleasant unless you disagree with her — then you’d better watch out. She is relentless in her threats and “poor picked on me” attitude.
Bunny boilers never just get over stuff. They make things as awful as possible, then someone ends up drowned in a bathtub.
I saw the email that was posted by DAM on The Romance Room’s Yahoo loop. All Megan did was advertise this blog. That’s it. DAM came back with a very rude comment, which in turn Meagan defended herself which she had every right. DAM replied with threats and verbal abuse…and yes, one of DAM’s witches (or butt-kissers…) replied and put all the blame on Meagan.
You know, it just surprises me that with all the accusations being thrown at DAM that she would do something to defend herself. Yet the first words (or email) that came from her were threats! She even threatened to turn her lawyer on Meagan if you can believe that. Why? What did Meagan do but advertise the blog??
You know DAM is not admitting she has done anything wrong. That all of US are wrong for accusing her and ‘lying’, yet in the last blog about Highland Press and DAM, it clearly showed who the true liar was.
The truth hurts, doesn’t it, DeborahAnne?
I sent the links and tried to tell them. I’m friends with the ladies who started The Romance Room and wanted to give them a head’s up - same reason we came forward here - to let people know what’s going on. MacG responded with an attack on my person, followed up by one from her clone. Not sure if my intended message ever made it through. ?? Hope some of them read it though.
And yeah…that’s what gets me the most. She’s acting like nothing’s happening. Highland Press is acting like if they ignore this it will all go away. They are all in denial, and craziest of all - MacG is acting like WE are doing HER wrong in all of this. She’s threatening to get a lawyer involved - to do what? Sue herself? Color me baffled. We have the proof - what exactly does she have? Nadda - not even a leg to stand on.
I didn’t realize that RIO was defunct. I wondered how many people in the many review organizations that DeborahAnne MacGillivray runs/participates/etc has this “clickie” system.
I had an email about who to contact regarding a reader’s distress over the situation. As noted by a previous commenter on the other thread, Steven Zacharius of Kensington invites readers to email him.
I don’t know if DAM has a contract with Dorchester anymore. She seems to reference only Hilary Sares who is the editor at Kensington.
Amazon phone numbers:
Phone toll-free in the US and Canada: (800) 201-7575 or (866) 216-1072
Phone from outside the US and Canada: (206) 346-2992 or (206)-266-2992
Another direct line: (206) 266-2335
and Amazon’s Executive Customer Service Center: ecr@amazon.com (got this via google. who knows if it will work).
readerreviews@books.com (this is barnes and noble).
You might also want to write publicity departments of various publishers and ask them not to use her cover quotes or quotes from review organizations who might be engaged in the whole “clickie” thing.
I’m not sure who else. Maybe some other people have ideas.
I would also add that if you write, be polite and use spell check. :) I think the more coherent, polite (but righteously angry), the more likely you are to be taken seriously.
Um, wow. I’m… I know the book part and review part is horrible. But I really, really, can’t get over how crazy and stalkerish it became.
Really? Really? There have to be legal issues there- and also, how frightening. One “bad” review, resulting in this? I’m horrified.
I agree with KM - Kensington needs to know about that.
I remember reading about this on the Amazon romance forum a while back. Apparently any reviews on Deborah MacGillivray’s books that garner 3 stars (or less) mysteriously disappear.
If all this really is true, I won’t bother sparing her books a second glance in the future. I mean, hello, everyone is entitled to an opinion. If you, as an author, can’t handle that, then you’re in the wrong business.
Those HP authors who are also members of RWA would also do well to write to RWA if they haven’t yet.
From the Code of Ethics
* RWA members strive for excellence and integrity in the profession of romance writing.
* RWA members strive to treat fellow members, RWA staff, and others with respect.
* RWA members observe and adhere to all of RWA’s Bylaws, policies and other rules.
An RWA member shall be subject to disciplinary action if the actions of such member are determined, in accordance with the Disciplinary Procedures in the most current edition of Robert’s Rules of Order Newly Revised, to constitute one or more of the following:
(I’m just copying the most pertinent ones)
# Intentional misrepresentation of RWA membership qualifications or credentials to RWA or to the public.
# Repeatedly or intentionally supplying false or misleading information to RWA.
The more they have documented, the stronger the case, overall.
So this author wants to control how a reader *feels* about a story, to the point of chastising her for her erroneous impressions? Then going so far as to instruct the reader how to interpret the book?
If she wanted better reviews, maybe she should’ve written a better book.
~MacG is acting like WE are doing HER wrong in all of this~
They always do. It’s SOP.
Correcting myself, I said she was with Berkley and Kensington, when it’s Dorchester and Kensington.
Oops.
I absolutely plan to write. Thanks so much for posting the info. Can’t wait to give the man an earfull. Or I guess that’s eyefull, given that it’s written…
If you guys know of anybody else who just lives to hear from irate readers, post ‘em up. 5 mins around my kids and I can do irate all day:P
Barb, I’m not in RWA anymore, so I don’t have access to all the documents, but wasn’t there once a rule to the effect that members can’t harass/stalk fellow members and materially damage their careers? I think I read something like that a few years ago. If I recall correctly, the member who is being threatened has to make the complaint; others can’t do it for her.
Jane: Thanks so much for the links. I will be writing also. And I will not be taking the books I have of hers to a UBS. My sister lives in the country and they have a lot of “sitting around the campfire” nights there.
I have NEVER done this with books before.
KristieJ — I just said almost the same thing to a friend…that the more I read the comments here, the less likely I’ll be taking her books anywhere except to the trash bin. I posted earlier that I’d be taking them to the UBS but I don’t think it’s going to happen…tomorrow is trash day for us so I think I’m just going to chuck all 3 books into the bin!
MacG’s manipulation of the reviews on Amazon goes much deeper. If there is a contest that is judged by individuals and not RWA chapters, she makes sure she is on them and that everyone she knows votes for her…EVERYDAY. Last year, some authors on dial up discovered they could vote more than once a day if they shut down their computers and rebooted. Of course MacG has a phone book of wins in these contests. She brainwashed her “followers” to pad the votes.
That sounds like a certain small press author who’s been known to do the same thing. She’s gone so far as creating dozens of email addresses to vote for herself. When various awards sites got hip and switched to IP voting, she stopped winning. Imagine that.
I just can’t- [shaking head]
**speechless**
Carry on…
Ok, so not only do I think this latest stunt with DAM is certifiably keeeerrrr-azy, but it makes me wonder — since DAM was in charge of the fundraiser for Dawn Thompson, I wonder what happened to all the monies Ms. Mac raised to help Ms Thompson? I know there were names of winners announced that received readings from agents and editors, etc, because those names were posted on Dawn Thompson’s blog on MySpace (I can’t find it on the main page any longer, but I had it bookmarked and so it still shows here).
But did all the funds get to the right place? Or um… did those folks donate to DAM’s bank acct? Hey, I gotta ask what some of us are wondering, right?
Also, is it just me or does anyone else find it a little creepy that DAM still hangs on to the coattails of Dawn Thompson? She still updates the woman’s blog, her website, her Myspace pages (#1) and (#2) and (#3), heck, she’s even set up a permanent obituary memorial on Dawn’s page. I asked on one of the loops I belong to if anyone else found this slightly disturbing that she can’t let the woman rest in peace, and I was told that Dawn Thompson left the rights to ALL her books to DAM and that she (DAM) plans to publish Dawn’s uncontracted WIPs through HP. Another woman backed up the story and said that all Dawn’s royalties will go directly to DAM as well — not to Dawn’s family as I would have assumed.
~shrug~ who knows….just had to get all that off my chest.
OMG. This is insane. Internet terrorism over a 3 star review? Threats on children of a reviewer? Stalking someone who gave an opinion? Authors subjected to terror treatments if they don’t behave as one person deems? This woman sounds like Hitler of the romance world.
Alyssa and Barb re: conference a few weeks ago - You guys did great. I don’t think any of us were aware of just how bad things were at HP.
I do think the publishers should give some sort of response. If letter writing does not succeed, take it to the next level. Didn’t SB get in the newspaper about the CE scandal? Uh huh… Wonder how internet terrorism will sound on CNN. Bodice ripper jokes will take on a whole new meaning.
RT next week should be interesting.
This goes so very far beyond disturbing.
I wasn’t aware of any problems at HP at all. It’s a shame, I have always liked Leanne Burroughs, but this doesn’t make her look good at all.
Unless they want to send the message this type of behavior is okie dokie, they better.
I’m disgusted. This whole situation has turned into a four alarm blaze.
I read her first book and disliked it severely. After posting my review for it (on my blog) I received some interesting feedback via email about my take on the book (why I was wrong), and also from people informing me that Deborah has been getting negative reviews removed from Amazon.
After looking into it, I saw that this was indeed true. And that some of her friends (authors also) had gone so far as to tell reviewers that posting negative reviews messes with the authors livelihood. Because you know they won’t sale books if the reviews are bad.
ETA: Sorry, I see I am late to the party and the previous tidbit has already been mentioned.
Anyway, I’m glad that it was finally brought to the attention of a larger more popular blog. Maybe now something can be done about the vile actions of the author and her fans.
Wow…it occurs to me that if the reader so badly misinterpreted this author’s book, perhaps this author failed to word her book in a way that a reader could not mistake. I’ve always been of the opinion that bad books are the fault of the writer, not the reader. And she didn’t even say it was a bad book, she just said it wasn’t as good as the first one… Frankly, I’m floored her publisher won’t take action… astonishing. Well, that’s one author who won’t get my money. And perhaps I’m only one little reader, but we add up.
To repeat/follow up on what I said in an earlier post miles up in the other thread: documentation, saved emails and Google cache is a wonderful thing. And those police reports and restraining orders are looking like a better idea by the moment.
Whoever suggested it for the authors involved, pulling/locking your credit reports is a brilliant idea as well. Yes, it sounds extreme, but seriously — if this sociopath is willing to break federal laws over a three-star review, I shudder to think what she’s capable of when something truly serious goes down… in flames, like her career, perhaps?
Is anyone keeping a list that identifies the flying monkeys? Not so much the clicker lemming types, but those in the upper echelons who capitalized on this? I want to be sure that none of my money goes into their bank accounts either. I’m not out for revenge — God will provide that. I just don’t want to waste my money on what must be inferior work, since the authors aren’t secure enough to let it stand on its own merits.
As some have already mentioned, this isn’t an author vs reader, or an e-publisher thing. It’s a personality/ego issue; proving once again that given enough time and opportunity, people will ruin everything. Their alleged fame and power didn’t change the basic personalities of DAM and her henchwomen. It only magnified their character flaws exponentially. I’d be willing to bet that they behave egregiously in all areas of their lives. It’s just more visible in this one.
And for those who don’t want to inflict DAM’s verbiage on others through a UBS, but hate the waste of tossing a book or the blasphemy of burning it… might I suggest campground outhouses? There’s always a dearth of toilet paper out in the woods, lots of wasted pages per book, and book pulp is biodegradable. You’re using something evil for good. It’s the ‘green’ thing to do. Not to mention an appropriate ending for the words of someone who is obviously deranged and batshit crazy.
Diane
I know I shouldn’t laugh at this, but this DM person is beginning to remind me a really bad anime villain — the evil green-haired high school girl who controls a clique of like-minded girls and mistakes that for having real power. In the anime, of course, they quickly find out how very small their sphere of influence is. I have the feeling that might happen here as well.
Grow up DM, and lose the green hair.
I have a feeling my ass would be truly unhappy with me if I wiped my shit with that shit.
I know Burroughs has a reputation as a very nice and professional person, but I don’t see how it’s possible that DAM could do what she’s been doing for all this time without Burroughs’s knowledge, at least, and blessing, at worst. I mean, who told DAM that the author on the other thread didn’t want to go out with her at a conference? How does DAM know about all this other stuff and how does she get away with continuing to represent herself as co-publisher in the way she does without at least tacit cooperation by Burroughs? I can’t figure out how DAM can continue to operate as she does without Burroughs by her side. Anyone have any insight they can shed on this?
And I’m also very curious about what other authors are involved, both those whose participation is limited to clicking and those who are actively supporting and defending DAM’s actions. I get the sense that there’s a pretty wide network of people who are assisting her to varying degrees. Again, any insights to share?
Chiming in late… since I rarely reply and was just directed over here by someone who knows I wrote for Highland Press. I wasn’t going to comment, but I don’t want it to be thought that I condone any of this behavior or was involved in the ‘protest of reviews’ (Yeah, I know I’m small fries, but still! I’m President of my chapter and trying to keep a clean reputation here! LOL).
A couple of years ago, when I first was starting out getting pubbed, I wrote a short story for a Highland Press antho. I don’t generally write sweet, but I decided to write one so my conservative relatives had something to read (sweet and in print).
To this day, I have yet to see a dime for that book. I tend to think of it like a ‘free read’ I wrote. Well, without the being free part. :) I do understand that an author needs to make $20 or so to be cut a check from them (I believe). Apparently, the antho I was in hasn’t made enough yet.
I haven’t subbed my work there since, and don’t intend to. I’ve moved on to other publishers I’m truly happy with (Samhain and Cobblestone Press). I was rarely on the HP loops and haven’t read the digest in gahd knows how long. Had I been on the loops, I probably would have spoken up on how utterly wrong it all was. It’s a bit…horrifying.
Just commenting to subscribe, but how come so few authors with HP are actually making money? Could it be that the only marketing that’s done is to benefit the owners? Gosh, we’ve never seen *that* with an epress before, have we?
I’d sure like to know what happened to the money raised for Dawn Thompson and I also find it creepy as hell that DAM is updating Thompson’s blog *as* Thompson. As for her having the copyright on those stories…it would be incredibly mean to suggest that there might have been some kind of influence exerted on a sick woman. I would never do that, not at all. Suggest it, I mean. I’m sure it was just a friendly gesture towards a friend. Very sure.
I’m a fairly high ranked reviewer at Amazon (top 100) and am horrified by this whole mess! I hope this woman gets what is coming to her. Stalking her readers because they don’t like her book? WOW! It’s because of crazy people like this that I’m afraid to review books I disliked!
[...] Dear Author (part I) Dear Author (creepy part II) [...]
Nobody seems to know the answer to this qiestion, it does make you wonder if the money ever got to where it was supposed to.
And yes, I too will write. This woman can’t be allowed to get away with this.
Somebody, should write to Galleycat about Deb.
At first , I thought this was another April Fool’s post , then of course, I realised that it is not April 1st and this is for real.
It is scary and outrageous! Unbelievable. Not only for the nazi-like attitude towards how a person should read a book without any regards to personal interpretation or personal likes or dislikes but also for the stalking of the family of said person! This is sick.
Bad reviews can discourage people from buying books. That’s not good for business. Not nice but not surprising either that Amazon allows them to be removed.
This debacle should be a salutary lesson in what can happen when an author starts to believe the hype about themselves. My advice? When you get a five star review don’t break out the bubbly, get someone to tip a bucket of ice cold water over your head instead to cool down any delusions of grandeur. And when you get a bad review, buy yourself some chocolate or a new pair of shoes. I work on the principle that I’m better than my bad reviews, but not as good as the five stars imply. That way I stay nice and sane.
Has anyone seen this gem from our Debbie in reply to this?
http://www.publishersweekly.com/blog/880000288/post/460020646.html
So much irony you could keep a tribe of blacksmiths happy for a year.
I completely disagree. It’s not bad for Amazon’s business because it’s not like Ms ‘I’ve got a PI and I’m not afraid to use them’ is the only romance author on their list - not by a country mile. What *is* bad for their business is if people buy products based on false or manipulated recommendations and find they were ripped off. Over and over in the discussions I’ve read about this topic over the last few days, I’ve seen readers - customers - say they were fed up with Amazon’s reviews for misleading them and deciding to take their business elsewhere.
If bad reviews were really bad for business, then Amazon wouldn’t have a reviewing process at all. I know if I buy from Amazon, I have a chance to see what other people thought of a product, and I can use that information and other sources to make an informed decision. If Amazon is the main source of proper opinion, I tend to give them my business.
Really the only people hurt here are the readers who are being misled, and the authors who are shredding their reputations by associating with wotsherface and playing her game. That’s a lot of people, though, to make up for the insanely inflated ego trip of one talentless writer with dubious ethics and the manners of a ferret.
Lynne, I have a vague recollection of something being worded that way, but I think it’s one of those things that was reworded at some point. However, I did take a quick look at the P&P this morning, which contains a more complete version of the Code of Ethics. Section 16.3 of the P&P addresses the Code of Ethics and specifically spells out the procedure a member must take in filing a complaint against another member and as you stated, the victim must be the one to file and sign their name to the complaint as well as providing any substantiating documentation.
And can I just take a moment to choke on my coffee on the diatribe from the PW blog? Oy.
I’m a little worried about collateral damage–on that link to Amazon Reba described some outrageous activity but she also listed of people she said associated with DA and I’d bet the farm and all its animals that Emma Holly has nothing to do with this. (Or Barbara Pierce).
Speaking of collateral damage and war on fools, when I see stuff about letter-writing campaigns and mentions of online torture, I think dang, I wish I saw the same outrage and action taken for subjects like real torture and even the smaller idiocies like http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24057277/
or maybe (since we’re talking writers and writing) situations like the one Azteclady describes here http://karenknowsbest.com/?p=1113
but yes, right, people can multi-task and maintain outrage at all levels of idiocy.
Still, at the risk of sounding as pious and self-righteous as DA herself, don’t lose sight of the big shit in the world that’s worth throwing energy and resources at.
hey, and since we’re talking perspective, did the mysterious “Take a look at the big picture” ever fully explain herself? Because that was some cool james bond shit happening. all of this is just Stealth promotion!!! Hollywood-level PR geniuses at work, people!!
DAM has gone past the boil the bunnies stage to finding a horse head in your bed ala Godfather stage.
The message boards are going crazy over this at Amazon and many people are not only emailing, but calling Amazon directly. Wonder what happens next?
In the past few days I’ve had several emails from authors with HP, asking me what they can do. I think it’s because I posted here and I was involved in the Triskelion bankruptcy. I’ve received enough information to know that this is very real, and not a bit scary.
Honestly, it’s like something out of a novel (hmmmm!)
My experience with Trisk won’t help much, because that was a bona fide bankruptcy, a completely different matter to the situation at HP. And despite the company having problems, what did for Triskelion was a combination of bad management at the top level, and the collapse of the very expensive print program. Triskelion went into mass market paperback and lost a bomb.
The invective in the DAM and HP emails I’ve seen is pretty bad, and I’ve noticed that the more agitated DAM gets, the less she uses her spellcheck. So get her riled, wind her up and let her go. I’m guessing her friends are sitting on her at the moment, or she’s made a deliberate decision not to post any more.
I won’t break any confidences, or pass anything on except general observations, in fact, if it makes the recipients feel better, I’ll delete the emails I have.
But having seen the punitive release clause on the contract (they have to pay to get their rights back, and it isn’t a paltry sum. And the contract runs for seven years) I’d say the only way forward, if you want to leave and they won’t let you, is for the authors to remove or minimise the HP books on their websites, to give any future publishers a sporting chance, and don’t promote them any more.
Sigh. It’s about all you can do without getting into heavy litigation. If HP want to try to make you promote, and that’s in the contract too, they may (if you’re lucky) regard it as a breach of contract and give you your rights back. Royalties aren’t exactly stellar, so there will still be some sales left in your book.
Otherwise, until HP closes, you’re pretty much stuck with ignoring it or paying for legal advice or the fee to end the contract.
But that wasn’t personal. It was just business.
Given that it seems the geniuses running HP seem inclined to “punish” people who complain by ending their contracts–shades of Brer Rabbit–that might be another way to go…?
I know this press is being discussed at Absolute Write as well. It might be worth forwarding your contract to Jim McDonald or Victoria Strauss and seeing if they have any ideas to offer (not that Lynne’s advice isn’t sensible or that she doesn’t know what she’s talking about, I don’t mean that at all, just that they might have some ideas too).
Anyone who wants to be amused– go to Amazon and plug into the search box the following ISBN: 978-0974624938
Here’s a partial list of authors: Leanne Burroughs (Author), Deborah MacGillivray (Author), Kristi Ahlers (Author), Cissy Hassell (Author), Diane Davis White (Author), Michelle Scaplen (Author), Jacquie Rogers (Author)
Here’s a partial list of reviewers: Leeanne Burroughs, Deborah MacGillivray, Kristi Ahlers, Diane Davis White “Historical and Contemporar…
I just tried to find the other authors at the Highland Press web site and it was down.
Edited to add that all profits from this book were to go to fight breast cancer.
Ann Sommerville said earlier:
I object to this. My ferret has lovely manners!
But all this? Batshit crazy makes the poor bats an injustice.
~they go ballistic and will spam all your reviews with no votes, draw in friends to attack~
Beyond ironic to object to this practice while advising others to do the same.
It’s just not about reviews. Reviews are the McGuffin here. It’s all about power and ego. It must be a huge rush for a certain kind of personality to have others scurrying around to do your bidding, to feel potent enough to insult readers and reviewers publicly, and have others lined up to do the same along with you. And to lord it over other writers, squishing them when they question or object.
But sooner or later enough people join together (and its always called ‘lynch mob’ by those who are faced with the consequences) and it’s your bunny in the crock pot.
Thanks for making me smile, Nora. You rock! LOL!
I used to belong to RIO and witnessed first-hand some of DAM’s rantings. Only then she was condemning authors who posted glowing reviews of their own books and people who would post negative reviews of a competitor’s book. Seems she’s changed her views since becoming published.
She’s the reason I got out of RIO. I wanted no part of being associated with her. I had a feeling she was going to be big-time trouble and I see my hunch was right.
Translation: “I’m so incapable of taking any criticism whatsoever that I assume that every person who gives me criticism is too young and stupid to know what they’re talking about.”
Tip for Deb MacWhatshername supporters:
Please figure out the gender of the person you are insulting before you harass them via email. I can’t take you seriously if your grammatically incorrect and illogical sentences make me wonder if I should make concessions since you appear to have a double digit IQ.
And have the guts to sign your real name and email address.
I am agog. To say I’m sorry for the readers and writers who have been harassed does not seem like enough.
To pay this much attention to Amazon reviews, though! To abuse someone — well, to abuse them, PERIOD — but for three stars? What do you get for one star, I wonder? Authors responding to reviews are looked down on, but that seems tame compared to berating reviewers, abusing reviewers, deleting reviewers, and TRACKING DOWN A REVIEWER’S PERSONAL INFORMATION? That is, truly, crazy talk.
Yeah, it’s a bit annoying when you get some hatchet job review, or see a review that is clearly about something unrelated to the book (say, a shipping error, or that you broke up with the reviewer back in high school), but you scowl, or laugh, and then get on with your day, right?
Right?
It disturbs a lot me that there is any group that does something else, or that they think it’s normal professional behavior.
I’m horrified.
I am so enraged that this woman would stalk a reader, harass, and threaten her children. Why? Hiring a PI? I’m sure a lot of people have said what I feel.
This reader has gone through hell and I’m sorry to see it happening in the romance community. My heart goes out to her and she, understandably, has said she’ll probably never read another romance.
It doesn’t matter what circles you move in…there will always be those who celebrate others’ misery.
Before the snarks start…I’m not enjoying this situation. Nor am I laughing at anyone. I am HORRIFIED. There is no celebration in my heart for abuse of trust between an author and her reading community. I read the author’s replies before she deleted them. My opinion of the author is related to her words, her actions. None of the other comments have swayed me one way or the other.
Things are really blowing up on Amazon.com - it is everywhere that McGillivray has been. Not just her own books anymore, but the other authors who are benefiting (or at least were benefiting)from this whole “clickie” thing.
Any word on this from the McGillivray camp? Anything at all? Are they really ignoring this?
Not just Switzerland. We got 23 cm (9 inches) of snow yesterday.
Vile, disgusting and seriously pathological.
From DAM’s rant in the PW blog:
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Since when is a review not a presentation of the reviewer’s opinion of the work? What color is the sky in DAM’s world? (I assume the night sky there never contains fewer than three stars!)
From what I’ve seen, MacGillivray may benefit from having fifteen-year-olds tell her how to write her books.
Certainly she’d benefit from having fifteen-year-olds and maybe even five-year-olds tell her how to treat other people.
She clearly doesn’t have the first idea.
The good thing about the PW quote is that it is consistent with all the other statements that are attributed to MacGillivray.
But it’s different for her, dontcha understand? She’s speshul
People like this are why I often cast longing looks at Bertha, my Big Black Baseball Bat.
Doing a bit of research on my own, I found a blog where a reader credits Deborah MacGillivray along with several other writers for teaching her how to work the Amazon system. She outlines how it works. In case the post disappears, I am pasting it here.
Here is the link. http://online-interest60.blogspot.com/2008/03/rowena-cherry-remarks-50-ways-to-help.html
Sweet jiminy CHRISTMAS–who’s got that kind of time??
*is still boggled*
Holy Baby Jesus Hot Glued to the Creche!
The sad thing is people who are doing great work (hello, Angela James?) are going to be lumped with this crackpot because, frankly, when melt-downs happen in epublishing they tend to have this flavor.
Which leads me to belive there are two types of epub: those started to be good businesses putting out good books, and those started by batsh*t crazy control freaks who can’t work with others and want pretty desperately to be “real writers.”
Unfortunately, lately the nutjobs outweigh the serious businesspeople. But it’s very, very healthy to be getting it out there. You have to lance that boil, no matter how nasty the mess is.
I’ve been following this train wreck, speechless, but this has to be addressed:
wth? How can that be right? As a single mom, (and someone who got caught up in a ten year legal battle over a deceased parent’s will) this hits a big hot button for me. Who the hell is she to deprive this author’s family of any/all benefits from her writing?
Then, again, given everything else I’ve read here, why should I be surprised at this.
This cracks me up.
Not nearly as bad as some of the other stuff that happened. But another 3 star review of a MacG book was posted. Her posse checked the reviewer’s other reviews and saw many were of YA books, and basically accused her of being too young to have a valid opinion. http://www.amazon.com/review/R3EMBVZRRAX32T/ref=cm_cr_pr_cmt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&ASIN=0821780360#wasThisHelpful and http://www.amazon.com/review/ROVX1AS4T6IFM/ref=cm_cr_pr_cmt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&ASIN=0821780379#wasThisHelpful
Chipping in late with this but just had to add how horrified and alarmed I am by the whole thing. Any business that threatens their own suppliers is on a slippery slope to rack and ruin imho.
Also wanted to add that if Ms MacGillivray does go ahead and use a PI, it’s gonna cost her a LOT of her own money to do so and for what result, exactly? Plus, if enough of us writers squawk about this situation she can hardly take legal action against us all without it costing her entire life savings…
HP really isn’t an epub though, they’re a small press. Though maybe they’re trying to go into epubbing? I’m not sure. But I’ve never thought of them as an epub. So I’d hope it wouldn’t reflect badly on the epubs that are in their stride.
I think you’re right, I don’t know that their books are available in anyting other than print (I tried to talk one of their authors into suggesting she get her book in “e” so she can get sales in Amazon Kindle and she didn’t seem to think this would happen any time soon)
You’re right. I believe they only do trade paperbacks.
Apparently this “clickie” campaign is really helping skyrocket their careers too. They’re still mid-level, at best.
LaNora, is there something you want to confess? Has the secret to your success been, all along, not your writing but manipulation of book reviews? I knew it!
Honestly, if I can’t hack it in my writing career with my own talent, marketing, networking, and business smarts, then I don’t deserve a career. That’s how I feel, anyway. But I’m not of the gestapo tactic school of authoring.
[...] Now, I’m a romance writer and if you are too, no doubt you’ve been following the Highland Press kerfluffle and in particular the odd behaviors of Deborah Ann MacGillevray. As I personally have no dealings with either of these parties, I can’t comment and won’t - but being that I recently signed with a brand new e-publisher, anything that happens in the e-pub world is something I sit back and take note of. The old adage “being forwarned is forarmed” comes to mind. It’s time comsuming, but you can follow along with the latest train wreck here. [...]
Did want to chime in here again since I heard from a couple more folks about this part:
The reason (I heard) that DAM updates all Dawn Thompson’s sites so often is because the more books she sells of Dawn’s, the more money SHE (DAM) makes off the deal. She is now the alleged OWNER of all Dawn’s books, past, present and future and I’m told she is set to receive ALL royalty payments for ALL DT’s books — not just the uncontracted ones she’s planning to publish at HP.
OMG is that… a…a…HEADLIGHT coming towards us? Stand back!! It’s a big old train and the wreckage could be pretty DAM huuuuuuge on this baby.
My gawd, the CRAZY…it burns. What I’d like to know is where this nutjob and her hyena pack find the time to write, or hell, even breathe? Seems to be an awful lot of work in manipulating Amazon reviews, abusing HP authors, insulting readers and stalking reviewers. And DAM (this acronym seems very apropripate)still has time to create romance covers with hanged heroes (and win awards for them). This group may not have a clue how to act like rational human beings, but they can certainly multitask.
I doubt there is a review out there bad enough to damage or affect book sales in the way that Deborah MacGillivray has done with her actions and words and those of her minions. If she had any sense, she’d be working frantically on damage control and telling the flying monkeys to kindly STFU as they’re making things worse.
Considering her reaction to a reasonable, polite review with an average 3-star rating, I can only shudder to imagine her response if one of her titles had been reviewed by Candy and Sarah over at the Smart Bitches. I suspect we’d see a suspicious and frightening mushroom cloud billowing up in the distance.
Kate, the thing is the stalking of a reader, implied threats to her and her family is something very, very serious. Anybody who has no problem crossing the line to imply a threat towards people over something as paltry as a review may not have problems crossing the line to carry through a threat to something a little more important, like a threat to her career.
That’s what worries me.
I think what’s really disturbing is that somebody can actually focus THAT much energy on something like a review~when there definitely are more important things in the world.
Man, can you imagine the impact this chick could have had if she focused on her energy and enthusiasm on something that really, really mattered?
Her posse checked the reviewer’s other reviews and saw many were of YA books, and basically accused her of being too young to have a valid opinion.
Boy, that’s totally legit . . . (sarcasm)
Says the 25-year-old (who is still probably too young to have a valid opinion) who runs a primarily-YA review website.
Anyway, carry on.
LOL @Holy Baby Jesus…
This has to be the most mind-boggling thing I’ve ever read. And to think, I was whining about losing my 1/2 star on Amazon and thought that was crazy and petty.
The sad part is, I buy a lot of books from Amazon and rely on reviews quite a bit. I guess I’m just naive, but it never occurred to me that authors would be unethical enough to manipulate the system this way.
I’ve got some rather ‘enthusiastic’ fans, but I would never encourage them to even write a review, let alone go on a campaign like this. I for one, assume (and hope) that my readers have LIVES. I would think something like this would lose you more readers than you would gain. I know if I were on a reader list and an author suggested this I probably would never read her again.
This is a hoot. A Big FUCKING HOOT!
My friend’s wife is a writer and she told us about this. How the BITCHES over here are whopping up on each other.
Imagine that one bunch of stupid, silly ROMANCE WRITERs whopping up another bunch of dumber stupider ROMANCE WRITERS. U ought to contact the WWE, romance writers in the ring would be a big draw. Picture it. The ROMANCE WRITERS v. THE OTHER ROMANCE WRITERS. On team could dress up in those pink dresses where tits hang out, the side in blue dress with their tits hanging out there. Just like on the covers. Be the HIGHEST RATED SHOW EVER!
Maybe u want to srart out in rollr darby. Wear them little sorts.
We knew along this was a lark. No one is serious about working here. So lets get some fun going. I’ll call the WWE. Buzz here wants to know who represents the Dippy romance writers. Ah heck, we tell to find a big one and call
See ya on tv.
Thanks, Jethro, now kindly take yer smart lurnin and go jump in the cement pond.
Didn’t DM get funds from the Stephen King Foundation for medical bills for Dawn Thompson? How was that money spent?
Lord people please let that be a lesson to you when you choose a small/e-publisher!!! Wake UP! Just because someone CAN publish your book doesn’t mean you should let them! Do your homework, ask around, and if no one has ever heard of Sassafrass Press* RUN LIKE HELL! Don’t be so freaking grateful that someone said yes that you hand over your firstborn child, don’t negotiate, don’t ask questions and don’t READ before you SIGN!
DAM aside…did we learn NOTHING from Triskelon?! I have a friend who writes for HP and their days are numbered (the publisher at the least since folks don’t normally WANT to write for you when you DON’T pay them).
——
*Sassafrass Press is a fictional publisher pulled out of my imagination. Please do not Google or attempt to query.
Aww, isn’t that sweet? He’s talking LOLcat.
Boy (yup, little boys indeed),
Come back when you learn how to spell. Bring your charge card for the PayPerView. I know you’d be stupid enough to actually pay for it. Care to reveal your wife’s and her friend’s names? Thought not.
DS~
Hi **waving** I just want to clear this up before I get lumped into this catagory of stalking reviewers…***shaking head sadly*** I never condoned this behavior and I never, ever gave reviews away. I took my reviewing seriously when I was doing it full time, I once was a reviewer for RT. Just wanted you to know that I am not part of that pack, and when asked to click “No” or report a bad review…I did not participate. Although I would report back to the group that I did so as to not get a slamming e-mail. There were even a few times that I clicked yes the review was helpful when they wanted it reported.
I am a firm believer that if you stand behind your writing you can take a bad review. I have reviews that span from 5 start to 2 stars. I have not freaked out nor have I demanded the review or rating be removed. I did post on the previous thread so please, pretty please don’t lump me in with this group.
Ja(y)nes, ya know, it would be lovely if there was some way to keep those with those double-digit IQs Ann referred to from posting. I know! A password sort of thing that is actually an intelligence quiz~if they can’t put 2+2 together or name the first American president or spell C-A-T without a dictionary, then they can’t post!
To Mr/Mrs. The boys want you, just a couple of things.
~Sorry, I’m not so sure you’re the friend of a husband of a writer~I think you are a writer or a crony and trying to blow smoke.
~If you actually think this comment is going to do anything but make the commenters here do more than laugh at your idiocy, well, you obviously are off-target.
~FYI, if you’re questioning somebody’s intelligence or calling them dumb but can’t be bothered to spell out a simple word like Y-O-U, your insults lose an awful lot of impact.
Now that you’re done questioning OUR intelligence, why don’t you go find some nice little glass box to throw your stones in, okay?
~LaNora, is there something you want to confess? Has the secret to your success been, all along, not your writing but manipulation of book reviews? I knew it!~
Oh noes! I have been found out!
~Maybe u want to srart out in rollr darby. Wear them little sorts.~
Golly, Jim-Bob, you’re so cute.
Maybe that girl defending er momma can join up? I like them spnky.
Snicker. Isn’t he, though?
LMAO. Oh, man you gotta love it.
Hi “The boy wants you” !
Or should we call you “Sockpuppet” or just plain old “Deborah” instead?
lol
I’m going to butt in again :)
Janet Reid posted this fabulous article this morning about big and small publishers who can and WILL pull the plug on authors for behaving badly. It made me smile.
Guess it’s time to start penning some letters…
@The boys want you
I prefer men, thank you kindly. And as for why…I think you just provided ample reason.
My name’s Ricky. Look me up when yall cum to WV. Lunch over girls. Got to hit them baccer fields again. Yall can cum help put it out. RIde along behind the tracter and drop the plants into the ground. Ain’t hard. Won’t hurt you hands.
Shiloh said,
It is scary as HELL–the blurring in reality to the point where a 3 out of 5 stars will roll down hill all the way to threatening the reviewers family? The boil-the-bunny crazy point was reached and left behind a while back.
Unfortunately, it seems that more often than not, this level of ‘enthusiasm’ is closely tied to an ego of gargantuan proportions, and therefore tied to the aggrandizement of the persons self image.
Dear Ricky,
Repeat after me:
Not to go on All-Fours; that is the Law. Are we not men?
I don’t know why I’m wasting my time, he won’t get it…
“Male do silly thinks when they are upset and jealous…”
Ricky - Here’s the deal. You are using the same email address as a previous poster. I don’t want to embarrass her so please refrain from posting non contributory comments because I don’t want to ban this email address.
Ha, Meriam, snap!!!
[subscribing to this clusterfuck]
I’ve said nothing in this discussion thus far, but this has pushed me over the line. Kristi Ahlers, it’s this kind of gutless turd behavior that enables the tyrants of the world. If a few people would speak up and say, “NO, this isn’t right,” the tyrants would be shut down pretty quickly. I know this from experience. But when you and others go along, or even PRETEND to go along, you are guilty of enabling the tyrant and cannot separate yourself from the guilty parties. Sorry, but your own words have lumped you in, despite your plea to be excused. This is all sickening.
Hmm…
The syntax and grammar… it burns.
Someone catch my rolling eyes, please.
“Boy”/”Ricky” is DAM. No one else’s grammar is that bad. Just ignore it. I’m from WV so can tell you we’re not all hillbilly dipsh*ts. I think that distinction is reserved for internet bullies.
just as an aside, you can subscribe without commenting by entering your email address in the box below. You have to be a) unsubscribed and b) not logged in.
Since my name is mentioned by “anotheramazonreviewer” in message #69, I need to come forward with my side of the story.
I contributed to the 50 ways to promote your book, but DID NOT suggest the clicking thing. I was like QuietOne when I first joined the Ladies in Waiting Yahoo group. I truly thought that they were such a nice, supportive group…and the vast majority were. I confess to clicking on some Yes buttons for Amazon reviews. It seemed like a harmless way to help an author. However, I never really did agree with clicking on the No buttons and didn’t do that.
Over time I began to see a pattern of written abuse and endless self-serving requests from DM. I posted less and less to the group. Never one to like confrontation or unpleasantness, I faded to lurk status for the most part. Then, suddenly, DM deleted her review of my book, telling me by email that her NYC editors told her to do so. I thought those editors had something against me personally, silly goose that I am, and she didn’t say a thing to make me think otherwise. I was hurt and confused at that point. Why should big NYC editors have something against me? I wracked my brain and could find no reason for it.
Then my privileges on the group were set to “no mail.” A fluke, I thought. I reset them to digest. The next time I looked, they were reset to “no mail” again. After resetting it several times, I finally got the hint. Duh, I was no longer welcome, so I left the group.
You see, I am a trusting soul, who doesn’t believe people are bad until it hits me over the head. Well, my eyes are open now as a result of what I’ve been reading these past few days. Who knew? Not me. I found out later that DM must have discovered that I have been friends with Ginger Simpson (of stolen cover fame) for several years, and so I became tainted by association. I would and will support Ginger in any way as I believe she is an innocent victim, just as I was an innocent dupe. I am just sorry for any of the good members who may suffer needlessly over the actions of a rotten apple in the bunch.
Now, if something happens to me, tell the police. She knows my address too!
Oh thanks, now I have this image of DAM typing furiously on the keyboard, her fingers worn out. “No time to spell, must appall the world faster…”
You know I hate to see people bashing all epubs/small press because of this. Not all of them are bad. You just have to do your research. The epubs that have their sh*t together just keeping getting better and more impressive. So we can’t lump them all in the same category.
(((Wow, all the way down to Florida, Barb! Carefully handling Barb’s rolling eyes)))
LOL. Sorry, it’s lunch time at this roofer’s job. Life wouldn’t be funny without a few transgendered sockpuppets.
Question: Is Ms MacGillivray situated in Great Britain? Because that’s what her Youtube thingie says. But we all put weird things in our profiles for YouTube/MySpace, so I’m not sure whether that’s correct or not.
Nah, I’m not stalking her ;-). I’m actually trying to find out more about that $100 raffle fund she held for the sick writer because I had an acquaintance who paid for a similar raffle and wanted to ask her whether this was the one.
~Ricky - Here’s the deal. You are using the same email address as a previous poster. I don’t want to embarrass her so please refrain from posting non contributory comments because I don’t want to ban this email address.~
God, some people are stupid. Perhaps she should have said her name was Dick.
Dicky, Nora. She’s a boy still.
@ChoptLivers: OK, I laughed out loud at that comment. At this point, I can so see it. :P
You know, curiosity got the better of me and I dropped by the HP authors yahoo loop to see what kind of discussion was going on in there. Or if maybe I’d been put on ‘no mail’ like someone above. I’m still on digest… but, I can’t find any messages. Like any. Old or new. There’s only the option to post. I wonder if they deleted them all? Or maybe my Yahoo is just on crack today.
Through the grapevine, I’ve heard she’s in the midwest.
Okay, none of this is funny…but this did make me fall out of my chair…
Thanks, Jethro, now kindly take yer smart lurnin and go jump in the cement pond.
According to what she has said in the past she lives half the year in the US and half the year in Britain or Scotland (forget which).
Edit: Right. I meant England or Scotland and misspoke.
According to Myspace, she lives in UK and KY.
Scotland is part of Britain, just saying.
Fascinated by all of this, really. I am wondering what will happen as a result. Surely, with the power of the people - so to speak - unleashed, there has to be action taken by the distributors, Amazon, etc?
I am so, so glad I do not typically review historicals! :P
I cannot fathom why any author would respond in such a manner to a reader review.
Readers hold the ultimate court of opinion! Much like patrons of fine art, the artist may know what their painting means, but the patron is invited to their own interpretation.
Within that dynamic is where the real beauty resides.
I always try to temper my own reviews with polite objectivity, not because I am an especially nice person, but because I admire the creative process, the effort and the spark that manifests something from basically nothing but an idea. Even if the resulting book is, in my opinion, abysmal, the author might glean an insight from my constructive criticism and create something wonderful in their current work in progress.
Oh, and can we please call these other people in question something other than witches. Not trying to get all PC on folks, but it’s not fair to real witches. :D
Cerri
Disgusted Romance Author,
I agree that it’s always best to stand up when bullying happens, but for some people, it’s not so easy. For some people, simply NOT doing what you’re expecting to do is standing up and it takes a great deal of courage to do so.
Would I have handled it the way KA did? Clicking yeses, but not nos? Nah. Of course, I doubt I would have lasted two days in such a group, believe me, my mouth would have gotten me in trouble. Speaking up is something I come by very easily.
But considering just how extensive this bullying/terrorizing is, I can understand why some people don’t say anything. Again, I don’t condone just taking it in silence, but I’m also not going to tell somebody how they should have acted in each individual instance~unless I’ve been in their place, I really don’t have any ground to stand on.
Now if KA had been part and parcel of the stalking all negative reviewers, making threats, etc, I’d see it differently. But just because she didn’t have it in her to stand up to bullying? I can’t lump her with people like DM over that.
At this point I really appreciate it that some of these authors have the guts to come out *with their names* and admit that they had any participation with DAM. IMO that takes a good deal of courage, especially given what we’ve seen (even if there’s some CYA involved, as well). I’d hate to see us create a space in which authors who know what’s been going on from the inside don’t feel safe getting out from under DAM. Ahlers posted in the other thread, so I mentally pulled her out of the pile. And as someone said above, it seems unlikely that Emma Holly is involved (she has more than one one star review on Amazon, lol), and I have no idea who Barbara Pierce is, but it would be easy enough to check her reviews, too. Once you understand how this works, it seems that it’s not too too difficult to see which authors are getting preferential treatment, so to speak.
ETA: We’re trying to check the SPAM folder regularly, because as Jane said yesterday, it’s very aggressive (I have to fish my own posts out on occasion), so if you don’t see your message post here right away, give it a bit before you try to repost or rewrite.
Nah, I don’t see EH involved in this. She strikes me as too private a person.
My comment is to Disgruntled Romance Author with regard to your response to Kristi Ahlers.
Until you’ve walked a mile in someone’s moccasins, I don’t think you can judge the impact that DAM had on the authors at HP. Although she claims now that she isn’t the co-publisher, she had control of the loop, spoke her mind freely, expressed acid opinions, and berated those who didn’t participate in her schemes. Recently, another author was removed from the loop because she dared disagree with DAM in an off-loop email. What was the infraction? If one isn’t involved in managing the press, how can she have that kind of power?
If you pissed off DAM, you felt her ire. So, don’t condemn Kristi for trying to survive in a publishing environment into which she had locked herself for seven agonizing years. It didn’t take long to see who ran the dog and pony show at HP. New and unexperienced authors probably never heard of ‘clickies’ and believed DAM’S BS. I was a previously published author and I’d never heard of them, but we aren’t so stupid that we couldn’t wise up. Hell, haven’t we all had bad reviews. You suck ‘em up and move on. Not one of us is everyone’s cup of tea.
I’ve never met Kristi personally, but my impression is that she is a very moral and caring woman who has stood alongside her friends and offered unconditional support. She doesn’t deserve to be lumped in with DAM for having a moment of trusting judgment. There were no red flags when most of us signed there. We didn’t get the big picture until we joined the loop and got slapped around a few times. By then it was too late. I hope it never happens to you. It’s very easy to look down noses and judge, but until you’ve been there, done that, you have no idea.
Somebody correct me if I get something wrong, but I’ve been trying for days to string so much crazy loose information into a single coherent picture here, and it ain’t the easiest thing in the world to do:P
What’s going through my mind right now is best summed up by Ann Somerville’s comments in post #47:
Oh dear, I feel another rant coming on:P
To expand on that just a bit (or a lot, depending on how long I can type)…
Most of the readers that I’ve discussed this with seem to regard Amazon reviews in much the same way that I always have, and that’s NOT as a reliable source of information. A distinction needs to be made between consistently reliable sources for book reviews, and a system that I’ve always regarded more as a “shopper’s guide” - like Consumer Reports. I don’t see a book review posted at (and these are just for instances) The Romance Reader or the All About Romance websites as being quite the same thing as Amazon reviews. Just the most obvious things to me, the reviewers at both of those sites seem to strive for a certain level of professionalism in their reviews, and they are always legitimate book reviews by someone who you know has actually read the book, accompanied by some sort of rating system. I’m not saying that Amazon doesn’t have those, but we do know that there isn’t any kind of fully transparent quality control system for those reviews in place there, and that the rating system is open to manipulation by “clickies”, who can cause negative reviews and ratings to disappear by voting that they are not helpful, or boost the positive 5 star ratings by voting on them as being helpful. I can’t recall when exactly I noticed this, but I did notice it well before all of this s#!@ hit the proverbial fan.
There are often instances - especially with older books - where I have had difficulty in finding reviews on any of what I consider to be the legit review sources, and then, and ONLY then, will I go to Amazon, and begin the often tedious process of wading through the gushing fangirl BS, looking for legitimate reviews. The objective is sort of twofold; I’m looking for some good books to read, but I’m also to trying to figure out when & where it’s wisest to spend my dollars, and when it’s wisest to simply keep them in my pocket.
I’d say it’s not too much of a stretch for anyone to figure out that from Amazon’s perspective, it’s always best for them if I go ahead and spend my money - hopefully by ordering the book in question from them. They may have a hope or intent that the buying guide they provide, in the form of customer reviews, is an honest and reliable system, but it’s a win/win situation for them either way, since it’s the public perception of it being honest and reliable that counts.
I don’t have that perception of it and never did. I prefer to get my book recommendations from sources who have nothing gain or lose whether I buy a book or not. Unfortunately - and nobody was more shocked than I to find this out - a lot of people do have that perception of Amazon reviews. They don’t (or didn’t until recently) realize that a book review can appear to be legit, when in fact, it’s nothing of the kind. And even if they did realize that, they might still have been missing the fact that a book’s 5 star rating may come from one or two - or even ten - such reviews, that simply got a ton of “helpful” votes. And any reviews that might have balanced that high rating out into more realistic territory, could have their impact on the ratings nullified altogether by “unhelpful” votes.
I suppose some sort of evil genius kudos should go to DAM and her toadies for figuring this out and using it to advance what might have otherwise been a pretty dismal career. I, as a reader, am being confronted with the fact that someone who I simply presumed to be a reasonably competent writer, because she was published and I’d heard of her, was in fact a two bit, functionally illiterate hack, with about zero talent and no PR skills to speak of.
She appears to have built her entire career on nothing more than customer/ratings manipulation. And I can’t help it - I gotta ask at this point, did she get this coveted NYC contract that I’ve seen so much crowing about, due solely to this kind of manipulation?
Because, if so, it’s got to stop. It may not have reached that point yet, but as a reader, I don’t appreciate a talentless hack being allowed to get away with racketeering her wa