I was also intrigued by Meljean’s comments on the idea of ethics as “personal” (meaning I’ll probably do a whole post on that topic at some point) and on Shannon Stacey’s comment that authors may have felt that readers wanted to sit over their shoulders to observe or monitor process. I had wondered about that, actually, and I’m glad someone commented on that.

I wonder how much frustration comes from miscommunication and paradigm differences. For example, while authors might feel that readers shouldn’t be involved in discussing what plagiarism is in fiction, since so much of it seems to be caught/alleged/reported by readers, it seems to me — as a reader — that we’re already part of that equation. Different paradigms, different perceptions. And, on top of that, how do our individual interactions affect our general perceptions and expectations of different “groups” (authors, readers, bloggers).

Anyway, thanks again, everyone, for some good food for thought.

In the example of the reader who wrote me an extremely over-the-top, personal and very ugly note–that would be contact 13 from that same reader on this same subject in the last four months.

Good Lord. I’d think one would be enough. More than enough. Sorry to hear about this.

I didn’t see it as shutting down discussion when someone dared to ask her about a passage in her book. I read it as a challenge by someone wondering about possible plagiarism. After I went to the original threads on the Brockmann board I was clearer on the questioner’s motivations, but I still think that kind of question could have been asked and answered through a private email exchange. Readers popping up on author blogs asking for the provenance of particular sentences or paragraphs seems like a bad idea generally, but in that case it struck me as stemming from the heightened emotions about plagiarizing and I’m not surprised PBW read it as accusatory.

I have to confess that to this day I am amazed at the shit storm that one question started. Particularly since the question itself was as the result of someone else’s statement, as fact and in a public venue, that a passage in Evermore had to be lifted from a text book because the author “clearly hadn’t been alive” during the time the character is talking about.

What on earth???

This same person had said in a previous post on whether CE has committed plagiarism or not,

I find myself agreeng(sic) on the out of copyright not being unethical. She did not publish the entire protion(sic) as her own, she took segments and formulated a plot and charazcters(sic) of her ow(sic) around them.

My motivations, which are spelled clearly in my comment, were and are to educate fellow readers to the fact (which up to then I had considered blindingly obvious) that no, authors don’t need to be there in order to paint an accurate and realistic picture of a particular time or event. That’s what research is for indeed. And no, research does not equate cut and paste from your sources, with or without acknowledgment. And not just yes, but hell yes, writers do care about accuracy and research in their DETAILS and BACKGROUND.

That aside, I have to say that from the first read I felt the tone of PBW’s post in the same vein as Janet does, and that I believe she closed comments not because of my question—which she so graciously answered—but because of SandyW’s comment, which reverses the argument and exposes the bias in the use of the term “witch hunt.”

I think some of this is simply organic. Reading is a kind of intimacy, and can foster a personal connection in the reader’s mind. It can be a good thing, or a bad thing.

Romance by its very nature adds a click. The books are about relationships and again intimacy. Emotions and more emotions.

The writer isn’t the book, but writers and readers often can–and do–link them like Siamese twins.

It may be a matter of finding boundaries there, as Jane said, but everyone’s going to have their own personal sense of where their boundaries are.

There are writers I can’t read. I knew one who was renowned for her sensitive characters and heart-warming situations. In reality she was known as a staggeringly insensitive woman, hugely egotistical and cold. I saw her humiliate a reader more than once at events. I doubt those readers felt inclined to read her again. I know I didn’t.

But I haven’t been able to enjoy a Woody Allen movie–and he’s brilliant, imo–since he cheated on his wife with her daughter.

I guess you could say, in these cases, my personal boundaries were crossed.

In the example of the reader who wrote me an extremely over-the-top, personal and very ugly note–that would be contact 13 from that same reader on this same subject in the last four months. This I document and make sure my publisher also has documentation.

Let me tell you, that is PERSONALIZATION.

The reader who writes she hated the book, and I’m a crap writer and probably a lousy human being? That I ignore.

Put that on a public blog that I frequent? I’m probably going to address it.

This fear has been bolstered, as someone said above, by the initially dismissive and patronizing reaction by Signet in denying any wrongdoing. And then it was bolstered even more by one disingenuous response from Cassie Edwards herself denying the need to cite sources, and then by the self-pitying and irrational response alleged to be from her. It was necessary for SBTB to continue to press the issue, and for us, the people who read and comment on that blog and others, to sustain it, because no one in a position of authority or directly involved wanted to. There was little or no comment on this in the mainstream press. There continues to be very little to none. Paul Tolme, one of the plagiarized and infringed authors, treated it publicly with bemusement and basically as a joke. No other author plagiarized by Cassie Edwards that I know of has spoken up. Of course it helps her that she stole so much from dead people who can’t defend themselves.

So, faced with potential indifference from readers, and with real indifference from the rest of the world, many of us wax indignant perhaps more heartily than we would otherwise. We have severe doubts that Edwards’ readers will desert her. We also have severe doubts that her publishers will do much of anything. And we know that many if not most of the authors whom she plagiarized simply are not in a position to mount a lawsuit to punish her.

But it’s the likelihood that the readers won’t care that is particularly galling. Because it says something about romance readers that most of us do not want to hear. We want to promote the world of romance as more tasteful and intelligent than that. Yet if we are truly confident about the worth of romances and of genre fiction in general, we can admit that some of it is trash. And that some romance readers do not have refined, discriminating tastes. And that they do not care about the ethics of their favorite authors. And further, that some romance writers may not be moral or law-abiding people. In other words, that there is nothing special or different about romance as a genre that exempts it from normal moral standards, or that makes us, the readers and the writers, all best buddies with but one opinion on everything.

I’m saddened to hear the same tone in some of the posts here particularly by Jane and Janet. Because of DA, I’ve tried more books by more new authors than I ever would have picked up otherwise. Some I’ve loved, some I’ve hated, some have been OK but I still love the reviews, discussions, and information. I guess I’m just a DA fangirl.

Speaking for myself, I can tell you that I blog first because I want to, and second for other readers, not for or because of authors. So having authors (or other readers) dump on me or DA or critical attention to Romance wouldn’t scare me away from blogging. Some of the comments I’ve been privy to have been eye opening in a good way, actually. What’s been unexpectedly disorienting is the sense that I’ve gotten from some quarters (and I’m just saying this is what I’m taking away, not trying to make any accusations) is that crapping on bloggers and readers is more of a priority than talking about plagiarism. Which creates this sense in me that some authors don’t take writing or the genre seriously. So in turn I find myself wondering: if they don’t take these books seriously, if they don’t communicate respect for professional authorship or for the genre, why should I? And while I realize that I should be able to separate these two things, right now I can’t completely do that, can’t answer that question satisfactorily, and that’s a bummer for me, both as a reader and as a writer.

Ultimately, it will probably come down to remembering that the real value of this for me is being able to talk about books with other readers (including authors who are, in those conversations, readers) and going back to that place where I don’t think of author x as the one who said that what Cassie Edwards did was okay, or that authors who stand against plagiarism (which, you’d think, would be seen as standing up for authors in a big-picture sense) are attention-seeking divas, or that readers who keep talking about it are power-mad witch hunters, etc.

IMO, DA provides information. It might not be information that everyone wants to read, but then, that’s the beauty of the back button. Just click out of the website if you don’t want to know what’s been written or if something offends you. (Thankfully, I’m not one easily offended—okay, except by the reader who sent me a note saying that since I wrote erotica, she was expecting someone beautiful. WTF?? But I’m not bitter.)

At any rate, I said all this to say I’ve never understood people who come to sites like DA and SBTB, get offended by something they read, spew their disgust…and keep returning to post even more comments about how disgusted they are. Again, the back button is a wonderful tool!

Sigh, why did I follow that link to Eloisa James site.

Yeah, me too.

I don’t know how to organize all of my responses to Janet’s post and the links to other sites.

Margaret Atwood’s defense of “Atonement” made me buy “No Time for Romance” and it sits somewhere in the TBR pile. I will never be able to read “Atonement” just for pleasure because I don’t think that the acknowledgement was sufficient.

The day that Amy’s research uncovered the passages copied from “Laughing Boy”, I wondered how many other blogs would inspire a reader to do that much work. Plagiarism hurts. There have been so many publishing scandals that it is easy to look at my bookshelves with a jaundiced eye. But the discussions here, at SBTB, at AAR and at TeachMeTonight have been wide ranging. I’ve appreciated all of the input from authors, editors, readers, lawyers, academics, … These discussions revive/reinforce my love of books.

Just over a year ago, my favourite SFF blog (Emerald City) quit publishing with the saddest comment – “Some people have been saying nice things … Other people have been saying how it won’t be missed”. So, it is not only the romance community where there is a backlash against a blog that reviews its genre. I’m saddened to hear the same tone in some of the posts here particularly by Jane and Janet. Because of DA, I’ve tried more books by more new authors than I ever would have picked up otherwise. Some I’ve loved, some I’ve hated, some have been OK but I still love the reviews, discussions, and information. I guess I’m just a DA fangirl.

Sadly, there was sniping galore that I was referring to in that later assertion, lol.

And just as sadly… sigh… yeah, I can imagine. I’ve seen comments over this that have totally blown my mind.