Plagiarism Is a Community Issue
By Jane • Jan 8th, 2008 • Category: Letters of Opinion, Misc • •
“Plagiarism is the academic and literary equivalent of robbery, taking somebody else’s property. If you copy somebody’s test answers, take an essay from a magazine and pass it off as your own, lift a well-phrased sentence or two and include them without crediting the author or using quotation marks, or even pass off somebody’s good ideas as examples of your own genius, you are guilty of intellectual thievery. If you are caught you should expect punishment or contempt or both.” Quote from Robert M. Gorrell and Charlton Laid, Modern English Handbook, 6th edition (Englewood Cliffs, NJ: Prentice-Hall, 1976), p. 71.
WRITING WITH SOURCES: A Guide for Harvard Students, by Gordon Harvey, Expository Writing Program, Copyright 1995.
I can hear it now. But, Jane, that’s Harvard’s definition and we are just talking about romance books. Genre fiction, girl, don’t be so serious. To borrow someone else’s phrase, I am serious as a heart attack.
Of all the things that authors should care about, particularly published ones who make their living off of the written word, it is the theft of their words. If they care about the theft of their own words, then they should be even more diligent in preventing their own theft of other people’s work. Further, plagiarism is an act of fraud on the reading, buying public. When a reader buys a book buy Mary Sue Author, she assumes that Mary Sue Author wrote the words inside the book, unless told otherwise (i.e., through attribution or acknowledgment or both).
I have seen authors get up in arms about the sale of Advance Reader Copies. The weight of the law that I have read indicates that the sale of ARCs is not illegal nor does it appear to be an infringement of copyright. Yet authors are stirred up, arguing in some places that it takes wrongful advantage of the author’s work.
I have seen authors be up in arms against fan fiction writers because while the fan fiction work contains original work of the fan, it heavily borrows from the canon created by the author.
What could be worse, then, than copying someone else’s work and passing it off as your own and ultimately earning money from that act?
What would you think of me if I wrote a book and copied 16 passages from Nora Roberts’ Holding the Dream? Would you feel sorry for me or would you be at the front of the pitchfork line? How about if I started reposting one post a week from Smart Bitches archives but under my own heading and my own title? Would I deserve some gleeful mocking? Oh yeah.
Copyright v. Plagiarism
Intellectual theft is not always a copyright infringement. The US Copyright Act prevents unlawful copying but the Act permits copying without permission in cases of “fair use.” Paraphrasing work without attribution is probably not copyright infringement but it is likely plagiarism. Using four or five paragraphs in a 300 page book of someone else’s material is probably fair use but without attribution it is likely plagiarism. Some even accuse those of borrowing ideas without attribution as plagiarism. An idea is not copyrightable. Alternatively, copying a work and selling it is infringement. I.e., if I took the Smart Bitches work and sold it to someone in a package saying that Sarah and Candy wrote all of the contents that would be unlawful copying but because I wasn’t claiming it as my own, it isn’t infringement.
Every act of plagiarism is not a copyright infringement and every act of copyright infringement is not always plagiarism. However, the US Copyright Act is about the only US law that can be used to prosecute plagiarists.
If you do not register your work for a copyright, you cannot avail yourself of legal enforcement through the court system. “Before an infringement suit may be filed in court, registration is necessary for works of U.S. origin.” If you do not register within 3 months after the publication or prior to the infringement, you only get “actual damages and profits.” What does that mean? Let’s assume I started reposting all of the Smart Bitches posts on another site and charged ads for the site. The Smart Bitches would have to register their work before it could sue me and then all the posts that are older than three months would entitle the Smart Bitches to the ad money that I had taken in.
If they had registered their work all along, then they would be entitled to “treble” damages and attorneys’ fees.
Plagiarism an issue of ethics.
Plagiarism is mostly an issue of ethics. Ethics differ from community to community. Each profession, each group, has its own set of mores. For example, in the legal profession, wholesale copying is encouraged. We are not talk to be original thinkers in law school. When I write a brief for court, I look for an opinion that states my position and follow the pattern of thought and quote from it liberally. Of course, every legal and factual statement needs a citation but its not because judges care about plagiarism but because of the rules of precedence. (I.e., if the court ruled this way before, this is the way it should rule again).
In academia, plagiarism is often the subject of zero tolerance policies. At Northwestern University, if you include a quotation without attribution, you fail. At Harvard University, if you are found to have plagiarized, this is the policy:
If the majority of Board members believe, after considering the evidence and your own account of the events, that you misused sources, they will likely vote that you be required to withdraw from the College for at least two semesters.
Since a vote of requirement to withdraw is effective immediately, you lose all coursework you have done that semester (unless it’s virtually over), along with the money you have paid for it. You must leave Cambridge; any return to campus will violate the terms of your withdrawal. You must find a full-time job, stay in it for at least six months, and have your supervisor send a satisfactory report of your performance in order to be readmitted. … Finally, any letter of recommendation written for you on behalf of Harvard College—including letters to graduate schools, law schools, and medical schools—will report that you were required to withdraw for academic dishonest
Plagiarism should not be tolerated by the publishing community
In a profession that makes its money off the written word, the ethical standard should be of the highest form. It should exceed that of what is required by Universities of its students. After all, the student is paying to go to school so essentially the community that is harmed isn’t paying any money to the plagiarist unlike what happens in the writing profession.
When the Opal Mehta scandal shook out, it was discovered that there were about 40 passages that “contain identical language and/or common scene or dialogue structure.” Crown Publishing Group, Megan McCafferty’s publisher, demanded the removal of the Opal Mehta books from the shelves. Originally Little Brown planned to republish the book with the offending passages removed but eventually scrapped the whole deal and also refused to publish the second book in the book deal. Kaavya Viswanathan was paid $500,000.00 in an advance. Whether she returned it is unknown.
To not stand against plagiarism as an author is troubling. Does it mean that authors fear being in that same position? Is it because attribution suggests a weakness in their own authorship? One of the things I loved about Susan Johnson’s older works were the footnotes. I learned so much about small details of history from them. For example, from Forbidden by Susan Johnson:
Daisy’s formidable record of successes in the courtroom, Judge Nott had discourteously suggested Braddock-Black Ltd. would be better served by a “capable” lawyer.
Red-faced and frustrated he couldn’t legally eject her from his court, he’d insisted on presenting his views on women in an inflammatory, avowedly antifeminist, tirade.
“We cannot but think,” he’d expostulated, ignoring the intent of the state law as incidental to his personal attitude, “the common law wise in excluding women from the profession of law. The law of nature destines and qualifies the female sex for the bearing and nurture of the children of our race” (at which point, his disapproval of Daisy’s race was openly evident in his bitter, piercing gaze) “and for the custody of the homes of the world, and their maintenance in love and honor. And all lifelong calling of women…” His voice was beginning to thunder, his jowls quivering in sympathy. “… inconsistent with these social duties of their sex, as-is-the-profession-of-law…” A hint of purple tinged his cheeks, so rabid were his emotions. “… are departures from the order of nature, and when voluntary, treason against it! [FN3]
[FN3] This speech is excerpted from a longer opinion of a Judge Edward Ryan of the Wisconsin Supreme Court in 1875 in denying Lavinia Goodell admission to the state bar. Since law practice on the county level often didn’t require admission to a state or territorial bar, women lawyers were able to practice locally. But the admission of women to state bars became a state-by-state struggle. Belle Babb Mansfield has the distinction of being the first woman in the United States to be formally admitted to the bar. In June 1869, Iowa allowed her admittance. The following year the Iowa State Legislature ensured the admission of women to the profession by removing the restrictive gender language in its admissions statute. Over the next five decades, women were slowly allowed equal rights to practice as attorneys, Delaware having the dubious distinction of being the last state to admit women to its bar in 1923. Montana’s first woman lawyer, Ella Knowles Haskell, was admitted to the bar in 1889.
The ironic thing is that one of the detractions of the Cassie Edwards books is that they are faux Native American and if she had provided footnotes, she could say “look at my sources, bitches.” Attribution can be done. It need not be intrusive nor does it show that the writer is incompetent. I’ve thought Johnson’s footnoted books worlds better than her recent offerings which contain nary of footnote, endnote or attribution of any kind.
Avoiding Plagiarism is an easy task.
In 2002, the Weekly Standard broke the story of Doris Kearns Goodwin’s extensive borrowing from three works published prior to her own 1987 book, “The Fitzgeralds and the Kennedys.” Changes were made to subsequent editions of Goodwin’s work including additional footnotes and an inclusion in the acknowledgments that Lynne McTaggart’s biography “Kathleen Kennedy: Her Life and Times” was the “definitive biography of Kathleen Kennedy and which I used as a primary source for information on Kathleen Kennedy, both in my research and in my writing. Kearns characterized this as a mistake due to the fact that her notes, written in longhand, were not clear on whether the words were a “close paraphrase of the original work”.
The Crimson reported on the Opal Mehta issue,
Based on the scope and character of the similarities, it is inconceivable that this was a display of youthful innocence or an unconscious or unintentional act,” a representative for Random House said in a statement on Tuesday, April 25. In a letter obtained by The Crimson, a Random House lawyer put it more bluntly, writing to Little, Brown that “we are certain that some literal copying actually occurred here.”
Cassie Edward’s Shadow Bear appears to have at least 16 passage of literal copying. Is it longhand notes the reason for the borrowed texts? Can 16 passages be an unconscious or unintentional act? She wasn’t 19 when the book was published like Viswanathan. She is a New York Times Bestselling author with 99 romances published, the majority of them about Native Americans.
Ironically, Kearns herself complained another author used her work without attribution:
“There’s nothing wrong with an author building on material from a previous book. That’s the way history is built, as long as you credit the source. . . . I just don’t understand why that wasn’t done.”
Jane is a long time romance reader whose passion is, you guessed it, reading. Jane also does not like to talk about herself in the third person, but apparently this is the way that this biography thing works (although in a true biography, someone else would be writing this blurb). Anyway, currently Jane loves urban fantasy authors Patricia Briggs and Ilona Andrews. She's really excited about this year's crop of historicals including Joanna Bourne's The Spymaster's Lady and Sherry Thomas' Private Arrangements and the upcoming Loretta Chase Her Scandalous Ways.
She's looking for a good contemporary author. Email her with a recommendation!
Email this author | All posts by Jane
In a profession that makes its money off the written word, the ethical standard should be of the highest form. It should exceed that of what is required by Universities of its students. After all, the student is paying to go to school so essentially the community that is harmed isn’t paying any money to the plagiarist unlike what happens in the writing profession.
But academics are also part of a “profession that makes its money off the written word”. And a university degree is training for entering that profession (although students may not see it that way), so the punishment is intended as a signal that plagiarisism won’t be tolerated even among apprentice academics. One might also think of plagiarism by students as something which potentially brings the whole system of academic education into disrepute and thus lowers the “value” of a university degree.
In any case I don’t think the issue of money and the direction in which it’s flowing is really relevant to the ethics of this. In academic subjects plagiarism could possibly be considered the equivalent of a medical doctor not adhering to the professional standards required of someone in that profession. Any breach of those standards would be considered very wrong, regardless of whether the doctor was being paid by the patient or not. Similarly, lawyers would be expected to maintain the same standards of ethics whether they’re being paid or working pro bono. And I’d imagine that trainee doctors and lawyers who didn’t live up to those standards would also be severely punished, even though they weren’t being paid, because their behaviour would suggest they were unfit to enter those professions.
Well, I think my stance on plagiarism is pretty much clear from the Gemmel thing.
I agree with you that plagiarism is damaging on many levels. The readers feel betrayed, because they paid for original material. (I went rabid when the Lanaya scandal happened, because Gemmel is one of my favorite authors. I couldn’t see anything but red for three days.) The publisher, as in Viswanathan’s fiasco, is ridiculed for not catching the plagiarism and often has to eat the costs. The author from whom the plagiarist stole - and it is theft, no doubt about it - feels victimized.
But what kills me on a purely professional level is how can you just copy and paste somebody else’s words into your manuscript? Forget for a moment that it’s morally and legally wrong. Professionally it’s simply incomprehensible.
I sit there and tug and smooth every sentence. I nip at it an rephrase it and mess with it endlessly. Oh look, here it says he is listening to her spiel, I used spiel four pages up, it’s an unusual word, better change it to chatter. Hmmm, obsidian eyes might be pushing it, maybe they should be coal black. Oh look, this dude is ‘riding a flightless bird that can’t fly.” Kill me now. This process stops only when I have to send the manuscript off to the publisher, and then I screw with it some more when it comes from the copy editor. That’s why reviewing galleys is so hard. You sit there and twist your hands into a pretzel, because you see stuff you’d like to change but the train has sailed.
How in the world can you pick up chunks of somebody else’s word and stick them into your own work without making the words your own is beyond me. Especially in Edwards’ case, where the prose is so obviously stilted and academic in tone. Can she not tell the difference in the narrative? Is she that tone-deaf?
All writers steal to a small degree. We do it unconsciously - sometimes a phrase or sentence gets stuck in your brain and you use it because you love it, not realizing where you got it. Sometimes writers steal consciously: I wrote a book about a swamp and one of the source books described cypresses as “tinseled” with spanish moss. Oh, I loved it. I wanted to use it so badly. I got so weirded out by whether or not it would be plagiarism, I asked my agent, who stated that as long as I was not quoting the sentence verbatim, but only using the turn of phrase, I was safe.
Most writers I know go through this sort of process. I know none of them would ever dream of picking up and plunking a chunk of somebody else’s words into their work. It’s not their words. It’s wrong, wrong, wrong, ethically, legally, personally, but it is simply impossible professionally. The fact the passages are there verbatim, to me means that Ms. Edwards does not edit her manuscripts. You would actually have to actively try to keep the plagiarized passages intact, because they stick out like a sore thumb and most people would reword them on edit.
In case of Viswanathan I understand how it happened. She was young, she was under a huge amount of pressure from her parents and her publisher, and I firmly believe that she was somewhat pushed toward imitation, if not outright plagiarism, by her packager. Ms. Viswanathan didn’t struggle for years to break in. She didn’t have five trunked novels under her bed. As a result, she simply didn’t have the skills to write and edit the manuscript. That doesn’t mean she was right to plagiarize, but I do believe plagiarism in that case occurred due to inexperience and lack of understanding more than anything else.
But Ms. Edwards has been writing for years. She ought to know better.
As I said, unintentional plagiarism does occur. But cases like this, cases of intentional plagiarism, of direct and unquestionable copy-and-paste, they should be ridiculed. They should be held up to light for everyone to see. Because you know what, if you copy and paste somebody else’s words into your manuscript again and again, you’re not only dishonest, you’re also don’t give a damn about the quality of your work. You’re a hack.
Nicely done, Jane.
I think that’s one of the biggest fears I have as an author - that I will subconsciously ‘lift’ something and be smacked for it later. It’s not my goal to plagiarize anyone, but like Ilona said, sometimes we fall in love with turns of phrase and ever since Opal Mehta, I wonder if it’s my brain shooting it out, or if I’ve read it in a hundred different places.
But to knowingly sit down and copy someone else’s stuff? No way, no how. That’s the same as fraud.
“I think that’s one of the biggest fears I have as an author - that I will subconsciously ‘lift’ something and be smacked for it later.”
Me too. I stress out about it a lot.
That’s why blatant plagiarism makes me rant - which I resolved not to do ever in public.
Thanks for the in-depth and thought provoking article, Jane. I dislike it when I see my random (and not very meaningful) blog posts, which usually take me only a few minutes, not a few months, to write being used by those spam sites to draw Google hits. I can’t imagine how much worse it is to have words you’ve carefully crafted and spent so much time on, as Ilona spoke of, liberally used as if they were the writer’s own.
I don’t worry about unconsciously taking someone else’s words because I can’t even remember whether or not I brushed my hair this morning and I sincerely doubt my brain is memorizing paragraphs of someone else’s text while I’m reading.
I don’t worry about words or turns of phrase because I know that those do not constitute plagiarism.
Plagiarism CANNOT be done accidentally. It’s a conscious act of copying. As a former teacher, I spent entire semesters trying to UNteach my high school students the bad habits they learned in elementary school that led them to plagiarize without knowing what they were doing.
My daughter’s school is a great example. She’s in the 4th grade. A few weeks ago, she was required to write a RESEARCH PAPER to accompany her Science Fair project. I asked the teacher if she’d instructed the students on HOW to write a research paper and she told me, “No, they can just look up information on the Internet. No need for a bibliography.” In other words, she was giving them blanket permission to plagiarize and no instruction on how to properly paraphrase or do footnotes or at least acknowledge the original writer of the information. When this starts this young, how does a high school teacher with one semester to “teach the research paper” in addition to all other studies undo all that bad learning?
I had to take the time to show my daughter how to do a rudimentary, but correct research paper and though I didn’t include the bibliography, she made a list of the sites we used to gather our information. But I didn’t do a very good job of it, truth be told. I’m on deadline.
But I’m hyper sensitive to this issue because I’m a writer and because I’ve had my work plagiarized (by a fan fiction site, btw, so that’s a double whammy for me.) There is no excuse for it, there is no situation where it is acceptable. Authors, even of genre fiction, can put attributions in their Acknowledgments, at the very least. It’s not that hard to do.
I’m with you Julie I can’t remember the exact words used in the books I’ve read. However I do fear that there will be enough similarities for it to be close enought to get me deep trouble. So I can identify and share Jill’s fears.
Jane, great article.
There’s a reason they flunk out college students who plagarize — because it’s wrong. Especially when all that’s needed to properly recognize a work is quotation marks, attribution on the page, and a three-line bibliography at the end. I wrote a hundred bibliographies in college. They don’t take that long.
Of course, you can’t exactly do that in a novel, but there had to have been some way to acknowledge the other work.
That being said, I’m with Jill. I worry about subconsciously using popular phrases in my books. I think it’s partly inevitable, given how electronic and focused on pop culture our society is. But I would never, ever knowingly plagarize.
And really, don’t people know better by now? With the Internet and all the readers out there, somebody somewhere is going to notice if you plagarize.
Not to distract from a weighty topic, but how did the photographer get the cat to stand still for that photo? Mine freaks out when the vacuum cleaner comes out, even if it isn’t turned on.
Deaf cat? :)
And Julie Leto’s comments are terrific. Made me feel a little better. I like that plagiarism is a ‘conscious’ move and not a subconscious one. I have trouble remembering where my car keys are (and I’m holding them) so I like to think that this wouldn’t happen to me, but it’s one of the ‘Big Fears’ of an author, I think. We are proud of our work and want others to love it. Plagiarism makes you a leper in the writing community.
Jennifer, if a phrase is popular, then that means everyone is using it and it’s not plagiarism.
The fear that authors have of unconsciously copying someone else’s work is the EXACTLY the reason why people poo-poo the seriousness of plagiarism. It CANNOT be done accidentally! Get it out of your head NOW. It is IMPOSSIBLE.
Even if you did somehow lift one full sentence–one full sentence is not enough within the context of an entire novel to be plagiarism. It has to be paragraph after paragraph…sentence after sentence…passage after passage. Even if the copying is not concurrent or word for word.
But one sentence isn’t going to do it and I sincerely doubt that anyone could do more than that as an accident.
Honestly, people believing they can accidentally do this JUSTIFIES writers who plagiarize their most used defense–it was an accident! I didn’t mean to!
You CANNOT do this accidentally. It’s impossible. Plagiarism is the WILLFUL act of copying someone else’s work. It’s sitting there with the other person’s work right next to you, typing in the passage or using the cut-and-paste feature from something you’ve read online. You’d think that Nora’s situation and this one we’re looking at here would prove that.
And so it should.
I just wish it made those writers lepers in the READING community.
~Honestly, people believing they can accidentally do this JUSTIFIES writers who plagiarize their most used defense–it was an accident! I didn’t mean to!~
Word!
Here’s an example. I just opened a book on my desk and read the sentence:
“Good afternoon,” she said with a welcoming smile.
Pretty innocuous stuff, right? Anyone could have written it. Anyone. I probably have in some form or another. If someone else types that sentence today in their current WIP without reading this post, then they have not plagiarized. Hell, even if they did read this post and purposefully put that sentence in their book, it’s still not enough to prove plagiarism. Nor should it be. It’s just one little sentence amid thousands in a book!
Even if it were one entire paragraph, it would not be enough to prove anything.
But we’re seeing examples here and have seen them previously with the Opal Mentha book and Janet Dailey’s thievery of Nora’s books that it’s not just one paragraph or one sentence…it’s entire passages.
In the case of the person who stole from me, they thought they’d be clever and put “based on the novel by Julie Elizabeth Leto” on there, as if this attribution would be enough to make me feel honored that they’d otherwise stolen my work, changed the names of the characters and the situation and pawned it off as their own. It did not make me feel honored and several cease-and-desist letters later, the crappy fanfiction was taken down. I still go looking for it every once in a while. I’m not the only author this has happened to.
In a less publicized situation, a very good friend of mine had a reader contact her because she saw a similarity between an online story she wrote for eHarlequin and a ebook just about to be published by a well-known ebook publisher. The “author” had changed the names and added her own lingo, but it was crystal clear that the rest of the book was stolen from my friend. Luckily, RWA acted quickly upon the complaint, tossing the plagiarist out of the organization. And the ebook publisher immediately pulled the book. That was the end of the story, but it totally convinced me that plagiarism is always willful, never accidental and should never, ever be minimized as a crime of intellectual thievery.
I’m passionate on the subject. Sue me. :-)
Thanks, Nora. Your “word!” is powerful on this subject, in particular.
I probably need to shut up now. When my blood reaches this temperature and no sex is involved, it’s not a good thing.
I don’t really get the sense that plagiarism makes writers lepers in the writing community. IIRC, Dailey had alot of sympathy from BOTH writers and readers during the Roberts/Dailey plagiarism issue.
Also, I know from personal experience that even authors are upset when plagiarism is exposed.
Jane, did you raise your question about whether other authors “care” about this issue because there haven’t been a ton of authors coming out on these message boards, or because you’re actually seeing authors defend CE?
Because every author I know sure as hell cares about it, and every other instance of plagiarism we’ve all heard about. Maybe they’re not here railing about it, but I don’t know a single one who’s nodding her head going, “ah, well, these things happen.” People are (as they should be…as I am…) disgusted and angry.
Three of the four of us involved in my multi-author blog have been plagiarized. That’s 75%. I wish I could bold that…I can’t, so I’ll shout it: SEVENTY-FIVE percent.
That makes me sick. And you can bet we’ve raged about it among ourselves, to our friends, to our editors, agents and attorneys. The fact that we haven’t gone on blog message boards and screamed about it does not mean it makes us any less furious. (It could just mean we’re too busy fantasizing about the appropriate tortures and just desserts being visited upon the thieves who do it…or sticking pins in the voodoo dolls our plotting pals buy for us in New Orleans. Eh, Jules?)
Silence does not always indicate apathy. In this case, it could merely mean that a lot of people, as I did yesterday, were just shaking their heads in disgust and turning away to quietly mourn the fresh heaping of disdain brought down on all our heads by someone who damn well should have known better.
Okay, I’m back.
Jane, I never heard ONE WORD of sympathy for Janet Dailey. I’m a very active member of my local RWA chapter, as well as a long-distance one and among the 200+ writers in those two groups, no one said a single word in defense of this theft. In fact, the whole debacle is regularly brought up to newbies so they know they’d better watch their step.
Just this morning, before I started posting here, I posted a message to my RWA chapter encouraging people to come here and to Smart Bitches to bear witness on this situation and to LEARN from it.
I’ve heard nothing but outrage when it comes to plagiarism–except, as evidenced here, when people refuse to accept that accidental plagiarism does not exist.
Good job, Jane. Thanks for clarifying an issue that so many people do not understand.
While plagiarism can’t be done accidentally, it can be done in ignorance. As a college professor, I don’t receive many students who have been taught by teachers like Julie Leto. I get what she’s experiencing with her fourth grader, but it’s gone on all through high school. In fact, I’ve SEEN my foster children do it–just cut and paste their “reports”. More egregiously, I’ve dealt with a student who came to me asking me for help in another class (geology) and we worked out that the ONLY way to get an A in that class was to plagiarize. That all her attempts to do what I’d taught her to do and NOT plagiarize were exactly what was getting her the C while the other plagiarizing students were getting the As.
So, from a *student* POV, they’re taught to plagiarize. And it kills me, because I have to try to beat it out of them every single class, every single semester. Even students who have had me before, even when I explicitly say “No research AT ALL”, I get the plagiarism. And sometimes, they legitimately don’t know that they’re doing it because they don’t know what it is.
I can see CE actually thinking that because she’s copying the scientific stuff, the “lives of Native Americans” stuff, that it’s not plagiarism. I can see that she would be horrified if someone accused her of what Janet Dailey was doing to Nora Roberts, copying the actual love story, the interactions between characters, but not having a clue that what she IS doing in copying the academic stuff is wrong.
By NO means am I justifying what she does. I think it’s sickening. But my experience with my students, with the education system, and with the perceived difference between “creative” work and “scientific” work leads me to think that SHE might think that it was no biggie.
re: lepers — I always felt peeved when I saw books by a plagerist who shall not be named on the bookshelves, hitting best seller lists. It is sad that the crime of plagerism doesn’t stop a writer’s career cold. Writers care, but readers very rarely know.
I raise my question for a number of reasons. First, because I know of authors who have complained about the expose of Cassie Edwards and because of past exposes both on this website (not me but the person who actually discovered the plagiarism) and others. I have seen many attempts to “shoot the messenger” in these cases. It was done here. It was done at the SB site recently.
Second, because I have seen comments by individuals, not necessarily authors, who believe that the issue of plagiarism is one between the offending writer and the victim (hate that word) writer.
Third, because silence by the majority of authors on this subject does not create an atmosphere conducive to either the expose of the subject nor the castigation of the offending writer. Additionally, attacks on the people expose the “borrowing” give support to the idea that it is wrong to expose it and wrong to talk about it.
Fourth, because silence by authors gives tacit approval and perpetuates the idea for readers that this plagiarism thing is no big deal. Many readers follow authors’ leads.
There are alot of posts about power and there is a suggestion that we bloggers have power in this community. Maybe we do. But in the community of romance, there is no more powerful voice than an author (which is why when authors post anonymously at AAR and others they would use Anon Author - they knew it had gravitas). Exponentially, there would be no more powerful voice than a chorus of authors who would rise up and say this is wrong. It provides a powerful disincentive to the author and it educates the reader.
I agree with Sarah. Makes me want to throttle teachers who do not understand the difference between using sources and plagiarizing–and I, too, saw other teachers reward this bad behavior out of ignorance. It’s incomprehensible.
But once a person is out of school and once they take a position as a writer, they need to learn what plagiarism means. Can you imagine an accountant going to work with H&R Block without first studying the tax code? It’s sort of the same thing. Writers need to know. And if you don’t know, ask. And raspberries on the editors in this situation…I mean, the examples are so clearly didactic, couldn’t they tell they’d been lifted from a scholarly text?
Maybe, if nothing else, this example will be a “teaching moment” for all the writers out there who are researching their next novel.
Interesting blog and interesting points of view. I just want to say that just the other day, my 5th grader was asked to write a paper, and on my reading his rough draft (he actually had to do a bibliography) I noticed that the report was pretty much a copy and paste job which led to a very interesting and lively discussion of what plagarism is, and why its not a good thing.
Much to his disgust, I made him rewrite the paper. Ok, I sat with him for 6 hours as he rewrote the paper. Now I come to find out that his teacher would have been fine with the cut and paste job… but I wasn’t and I want him to be able to do a real paper, that won’t get him kicked out of college, if he ever gets there.
This has been great, and who says romance discussions has nothing to offer in the real world.
Jane, it takes cojones to speak up. When I protested the plagiarism of my story on that fan fiction site, I got pummeled. Destroyed. Not by other authors–by readers.
Now, I pretty much decided that I don’t want the kind of readers who can’t understand the basic principle of right vs. wrong, but it was a risky position to take. I didn’t stay for the blood bath, either. I posted my opinion, argued once, then left that community to their own devices.
Authors who do not speak up, IMO, do so because they are afraid of the fallout from readers. Maybe readers won’t buy my book because I spoke out against the plagiarist, who is their favorite author. Readers have threatened to not buy our books for lesser reasons, that’s for sure. Just the other day I read a rant about readers who won’t buy books with certain words in the back cover copy…even though authors do not write back cover copy and oftentimes have no control over what is written there.
That was at AAR, if I remember correctly.
So don’t take silence as tacit approval. Silence is sometimes just CYA. Me, I’m an opinionated so-and-so. I don’t much care if people don’t buy my books because of something I said because I don’t say things I don’t feel strongly about. I respect people who have an opinion, even if I don’t agree with it.
Thinking about my post, I want to post a clarification. Plagiarism is wrong, whether done in ignorance or not. That’s why I make my policy very clear in my syllabi, then teach the difference between plagiarism and good citation methods, then punish plagiarism if I find it, whether or not I deem it ignorance. So I’m not trying to excuse CE at all. Just saying that that might have been her personal justification. It’s wrong, and should be punished somehow, but I can see her being shocked! shocked, I tell you!! at the flap because she doesn’t think that she did anything wrong. ::shrug:: Who knows–it’s not like she’s speaking up.
I don’t see silence as approval. What can I add to this? It’s wrong, it’s inexcusable, and as Julie rightly pointed out, it is impossible to do by accident. What else is there to say?
Trust me, they are out there.
I don’t see silence as approval. What can I add to this? It’s wrong, it’s inexcusable, and as Julie rightly pointed out, it is impossible to do by accident. What else is there to say?
Charlene, I don’t think it’s so much “having” to add new verbiage to the debate so much as it’s adding one’s voice to the chorus against plagiarism. As a reader, I hope there is substantial discussion about this case, in forums (fora?) wider than a few romance-review websites. Because I don’t think Edwards should be able to continue publishing plagiarized words, and I’m worried that readers and publishers will shrug it off. (See also: Kensington’s signing Janet Dailey to a new contract in 2001.)
Chicklet, I’m continually amazed that Dailey’s career has gone merrily onward. I don’t buy her books any more and never will again. I can’t stop buying Cassie Edwards books because, um, I already don’t. *g* I do wonder if Dailey’s ability to continue publishing would have had a different outcome if the plagiarism case happened today.
Excellent article, Jane. No one can claim ignorance now (don’t think they had a leg to stand on before, frankly)
Jane, again, I definitely don’t see silence as approval. There could be any number of reasons for authors not to discuss this issue here, beyond your question about whether they even care, or Julie’s that they’re worried about covering their own asses.
I love your site, and SBTB, and I know a lot of other authors do too. But I also know a lot of other authors who do not. They don’t want anything to do with it. They don’t visit, don’t pay attention to what’s happening here and would never dream of commenting.
A lot of authors have no idea this is happening. I could contact fifty writer friends/associates/loop & chapter mates right now and ask if they knew anything about this issue at all and be told no by the majority of them.(Then I’ll tell them…)
I know authors who hate blogs in general. They don’t do them, don’t visit them, don’t comment on them. Ever.
I know authors who’ve had the “don’t make comments on the internet, they never go away” lesson ingrained in them. (You’d think I’d be one of them given some of my early career foot-in-mouth moments.)
Maybe some authors would respond to a journalist’s request for a comment on this. But there are a lot who would simply find it unthinkable to seek out a public forum to voice an unsolicited opinion on any issue.
A lot of people were raised with Mama repeating Thumper’s motto: “if you can’t say something nice…” and they apply it to every aspect of their life, including their professional one. (My Mama taught me to not be walked on and that I had the right to voice my opinion no matter how unpopular it may be…I suspect Julie’s did, too. And Nora’s.)
And yes, you’re right, some authors might be feeling a little pity about the public flogging, and they’d rather not jump onto her back, too, despite how they feel about the core issue.
None of these things mean they do not care about plagiarism.
As I see it, this goes both ways. Just as everyone has a right to express his or her opinion, they also have the right to not express it. Those who don’t choose to shouldn’t be judged as apathetic co-conspirators for their silence any more than those who do choose to should be called rabble-rousing shit-stirrers.
The issue of authors actually defending this action is entirely different. As I said before, I haven’t seen that at all in this particular situation (fan-girl readers? Yes. No verbal defenses or “pleas for understanding” by other authors.) You say you have seen it in the past, and I am truly sickened by that. It’s indefensible by anyone, but especially by other authors who you’d think would be the first line of defense against plagiarism.
Nora is the one who knows best about her own case, and I’m sure she felt backlash she never expected and that we’ll never know about. But I can only back-up what Julie said: I don’t personally know any author who can see Dailey’s name on a bestseller list and not want to get a big black Sharpie and scrawl “Thief” across it.
I agree with post #26. As an editor, I’ve found instances of blatant plagiarism in several manuscripts. One author posted a message to their web site that included my personal contact information, claiming I’d ruined their publishing career. I was getting death threats!
Just as students don’t understand what plagiarism is and why it’s wrong, many readers don’t. All they see is an attack on their favorite author.
This [plagiarism] is wrong. Wrong. WRONG.
Said “plagiarism is wrong” at SBTB. Said it in detail on my own blog. Saw more than one author saying it at SBTB. But there’ll be a fair few who won’t say anything because they’re scared to, and a fair few more who won’t say anything because they don’t know about it.
Julie Leto Said:
And I can completely understand why. When something has been done to you or someone close to you, it will make you passionate about it.
I think plagiarism is wrong, wrong, wrong. No gray area IMHO. However, I may not have the passionate feelings you do regarding it b/c I’m not a writer and have never been plagiarized. I have my own “issues” that I am passionate about b/c they effect me or my family.
Those with experience with plagiarism should be telling us how it feels, how it effects them, etc. People need to see that what they may see has “harmless” really isn’t.
I don’t get this “cut and paste is okay for reports” thing. I remember writing extensive bibliographies and using footnotes in all my college papers. Whey would that all of a sudden change? sheesh. I better keep an eye on my kids when they get to that age.
Plagiarism grosses me out. How’s that for eloquent? lol. I agree on the turn of phrase issue, however. Sometimes you hear something and you really need to use it. I remember reading how Sylvia Plath referred to the ‘delicate throat’ of her wrist and I LOVED it. Someday I’m going to use it, too! I also remember one time that Lisa Kleypas used the ’supple arch’ of her heroine’s spine, and I loved that phrase so much I asked LK if she would mind if I used it.
As for lifting someone else’s words in passages or pages, I can’t imagine it. Their voice wouldn’t sound like mine, wouldn’t match. I’d have to re-write it all anyway, so what would be the point?
I agree with Leslie. Why in the world would an author be afraid to stand up and say plagarism is wrong? I don’t get it. Isn’t it like saying lying and cheating are wrong? There’s no debate here. These are wrong. I really don’t know any authors who sit back and say plagarism is okay. Being on meds, depressed, too busy, stressed, young or whatever is not an excuse to take someone else’s hard work and pass it off as your own. I’m all for redemption and forgiveness, but people who engage in plagarism have to take personal responsibility for their poor choices and actions and pay a price in some manner.
And bless Julie for her passion on the “not by accident” reality of plagarism. I understand the fear of unintentionally taking an idea and using it for your own. But step back and think about it. Would you ever actually take someone else’s ideas or words? Plagarism is an intentional thing bourne out of desperation, fear, greed…something. Julie’s explanation should make all of us who are conscientious and concerned sleep a little better.
I just spent an hour reading all the passages on SB. I can only say, damn. That’s a lot of lifted material. There should be consequences.
I’ll add my voice to those who say plagiarism is wrong. And I don’t give a crap about the person’s age, stress levels, personal life, deadlines, or any other factor. I don’t care if the dog ran away or the truck broke down or if Uncle Sam repo’d the family farm. When an author signs a contract, (s)he is guaranteeing all original material, not 90/10, or whatever split they can be bothered to create.
As intellectual property, words are all I have. I’m not selling t-shirts, keychains, or Jax bobblehead dolls. So I’d be pissed as hell if anyone stole from me.
If it’s any consolation, it does to this reader. I hadn’t read Janet Dailey before the plagiarism against Nora, but there is No Way I will Ever even pick up a book she’s written now. And it infuriates me every time I’m in the book store and see her books. I want to grab them all, take them to the front and dump them and say ‘don’t you realize this woman is a cheater of the worst kind? How dare you help her make money!’
The chances of me ever reading a Cassie Edwards book were nil to begin with, so there’s nothing I can that I’m not already doing, but I applaud those who expose plagerism and should an author I do like ever get caught - I will tear up their books and never read them again.
In a profession that makes its money off the written word, the ethical standard should be of the highest form. It should exceed that of what is required by Universities of its students. After all, the student is paying to go to school so essentially the community that is harmed isn’t paying any money to the plagiarist unlike what happens in the writing profession.
And yet there is a big difference between academic writing (especially in the philologies) and writing fiction: in the academic text all direct and indirect (i.e. summaries, if ever so short) quotations need to be documented. E.g., I can’t just write, “Sir John Tenniel loved collecting medieval armor and filled his house with his finds.” This is not common knowledge, hence I have to give my source. If I don’t do it, it’s plagiarism.
However, if I were to write a novel about Sir John Tenniel and would work his love for medieval armor into the text, it would not be considered plagiarism. Which raises the question when exactly it becomes legally and morally necessary for a novelist to mention research books in the author’s note. (And please note that I’m not talking about direct, unattributed quotations from copyrighted works here!!! This is beyond the question.)
~Trust me, they are out there.~
Oh God, yes. I had writers complain that I should’ve kept quiet, that I was picking on an icon, that it wasn’t any big deal. Why wasn’t I FLATTERED?
The majority didn’t fall into this kind of group, but there were plenty. I was told I should just forgive and move on, that I was mean and heartless.
I had one come up to me, face to face, and laugh about it–while it was going on, and at its worst media-wise.
Many of my writer pals were afaid to speak out publically–fear of being sued.
I took a great deal of heat from readers, too.
I don’t want it to seem as if I had no support in the writing community. I did, and needed it, appreciated it–have never forgotten it. But I haven’t forgotten the flip side of that coin either.
I see often see silence more as disapproval than approval. I haven’t seen a bunch of people flocking around and saying, Hey, it’s not big deal.
When a person does something wrong, it’s on them. They made the mistake, and eventually, they will suffer consequences. Even if there’s no legal punishment, I firmly believe that every wrong decision a person makes sooner or later comes back to haunt them.
It’s their wrong-doing. Something they did. Something I firmly believe they’ll ultimately pay for even if they aren’t caught. I can’t control it and ultimately, I don’t think I could even prevent it from happening again, because as long as free will exists, there will be those who take shortcuts.
I made the decision a while back to focus on the things I can change, the areas where I can make a difference.
Frankly, I don’t see that this one of them. Even if every romance author banded together and signed some big petition, paid for online and on air ad campaigns denouncing plagiarism, it would happen again and again.
I’m with Kristie(J). I’m an avid reader and plagiarism has no place on my bookshelf! I’ve never read Janet Daily and never will. I think that there are a lot of readers out there who don’t like plagiarism, but don’t know who to complain to!
My oldest son dual-enrolled at the local community college, and not only did they require bibliographies, they also used a computer program to detect plagiarism in term papers. I pity the kids who were taught to cut and paste in elementary school, and then get hit with charges of plagiarism in the upper grades or college.
Oh, and yes, it’s just plain wrong!!!
I agree with Bev and the others and would never pick up a J.D. book.
Maybe organizations such as RWA and NINC need to start an Awareness Program aimed at elementary level students and teachers regarding what is Plagiarism and How to Avoid It. It could be like D.A.R.E. We could call it, “Don’t Steal My Words.”
I’m going to write to the board of both organizations right now. Talk about advocacy that could help us all!
I can see by reading through the posts that teachers aren’t really surprised by this–my college won’t buy the service that helps us find the plagiarists, but some of my colleagues subscribe to other services. One has the students submit papers through their site and the service checks it for lifted information. Only after the check, does the teacher allow the student to turn in the paper.
I’m not sure about the idea that authors don’t care and don’t speak up. Seems like many authors are doing so here, and certainly the Mehta case and others have brought people to the discussion table.
I do want to know what Jane thinks or knows about the common knowledge rule. I always believed that if the information has been put or written about in five soruces, a cite for that information does not have to be included. So if I’m talking about Sir Issac Newton, I can write about his theory and apple without citing a source. Of course, I wouldn’t steal someone else’s writing about said topic but craft my own. I think that’s part of the boggle with the ferret issue.
In any case, I don’t take this problem lightly as a teacher or a writer, and I actually don’t know a writer who does.
Jessica
Whether or not authors are disgusted by plagiarism, IMO there is a dangerous culture of silence around this issue.
I think one of the reasons you see such extreme opinions on this (i.e. get the pitchforks or no big deal) is because we have not incorporated any good common standards of what is and isn’t acceptable into the writing AND reading communities. I wonder what you’d get if you asked every author and reader to even DEFINE plagiarism. Heck, I don’t completely agree with Julie Leto’s insistence that you can’t unintentionally plagiarize, so I know there’s a pretty significant gray area that can be addressed, let alone the black and white basics.
Since it’s so often readers who catch this stuff, I think it’s very important that there be open discussion of plagiarism, not with all the moralizing and apologias, but with common sense, rationality, and forthright explanations of why we value creative knowledge and how we try to balance community ownership of creative expression with individual protections for certain aspects of that expression. It’s a complicated issue, or set of issues, which creates another layer or urgency, IMO.
The last thing I want to see is authors coming out to raise hell against Cassie Edwards or any author per se. But I’d love to see them talk openly about the issue of plagiarism in general, especially when it comes to what is and isn’t acceptable when it comes to writing fiction, because I think it would lessen the strange taboo around the subject. And since there’s so much anxiety around fan fiction, I can see more open discussion of the issue creating more awareness in those circles, too, of what is and isn’t okay.
Overall, it is just so strange to me that the issue of plagiarism only comes up as a topic of conversation when it happens, but so many authors don’t seem shy at all when talking about ARC sales, fan fiction, or other topics. Is it only those authors who are aware they have been plagiarized who give the issue much thought? And if there’s a fear of reader backlash, I’d argue again that the fear is driven partially by the taboo itself.
I haven’t read all the recent comments. I had to go to a meeting and I will go back and address them, but I wanted to say something about Leslie Kelly’s comment. My desire for open discussion regarding plagiarism is not about this blog or the SB blog or any blog. It’s about the fact that the community of the genre, comprised of readers and authors should discuss this openly.
Openly does not mean come out and make a stance here on any blog, particularly if you don’t like blogs. It’s about taking this issue back to the fifty chapter members who don’t know about it. It’s about making the issue of plagiarism - what it is and what it isn’t - a topic that can be discussed without fear, without retribution. So there is no need for any CYA. So that everyone in the outside world understands that the romance genre does not tolerate this sort of thing.
It’s a discussion that should be had between every crit group, every writing group. If the authors lead on this topic, the readers will follow. If authors take the time to educate their readers on message boards, email lists and other forums, the possible reader backlash will decline.
Because ethics is a community issue, it must be defined by the community. The authors in the romance writing community need to define for itself the ethical right or wrong because the fact that you can’t talk about it openly, the fact that there are people who don’t know the Janet Dailey/Nora Roberts story, seems to give rise to the idea that the romance genre doesn’t care or tacitly approves it.
And of course, I am not talking about people who are willing to talk about it here. Good for you. But why should there be any fear, concern, etc. for talking about it with other authors. Isn’t it an important enough issue to get out there? Isn’t it something that should be discussed at every RWA chapter and on the national level?
Okay, screw the new year’s resolution. I’m breaking my blog silence and adding my voice to the writers who condemn plagiarism.
Plagiarism is WRONG. INEXCUSABLE. And cannot be done ACCIDENTALLY! Unless you have a photographic memory, you cannot type out ENTIRE PASSAGES that bear remarkable similiarity to someone else’s work BY ACCIDENT (even then, it’s still deliberate). If they weren’t cut-and-pasted from the Internet, you must have the book open in front of you as you type.
And also count me in as someone who’s always worried about committing plagiarism herself. In fact, I generally don’t read books in the specific subgenre I write. Too risky.
And all this talk about how students don’t know they are plagiarising in their reports and such? I was taught to use quotes and footnotes and bibliographies by grade 3. Sorry, if you don’t do this in junior high, high school, and university, it’s not because you don’t know how or don’t know that it’s wrong, it’s because you didn’t bother to pay attention in school.
But if the parents out there tell me the education system has deteriorated in the last couple of decades… *shaking my head*
Word Jane.
There is an humorous saying - copy from one source, it is plagiarism; copy from twenty and it is research. I don’t know the extent of the common knowledge rule but what I read at the SB site seems to be more inclusive than common knowledge. I think plagiarism that stems from the use of Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V keys once too often. (If I might quote Bam’s hilarious comment here).
At least some schools are on the right track — at my son’s high school a copy of every paper turned in must also be submitted through a website (I think it’s called turnitin.com) that checks for plagiarism. This is a small private school that prides itself on its high academic standards — I wish all schools treated it this seriously.
My daughter’s middle school also teaches the kids about plagiarism, but sometimes too much of the focus is on finding information through Internet research, and not enough focus on what you do with the information once you have it.
I will always be shocked that Janet Dailey’s career has continued. I agree with the commenter who said what Dailey did copying Nora Roberts’ prose was more offensive than what Edwards did paraphrasing research materials without attribution — but both are clearly wrong.
Give up reading my favorite genre? Eeek! I think I’ll take the risk. :-)
As a reader, I didn’t know about the Dailey/Roberts thing for years. At the time, I just enjoyed books, didn’t jump all over the web, finally read about it on Adwoff two or three years ago. I think the average reader who just picks a book up at the store, doesn’t always pay attention to these things, unless the mainstream media plays it up or it becomes broader knowledge, it is easy to miss it. Now, knowing I stick away from Dailey, but I could see where someone like my mom just going to the store to pick up a book might grab one not knowing.
Plagiarism is the passing off of someone else’s words as your own–or ideas in such a blatant way that it’s clear the original concept was not your own. It’s not a single word or even a single phrase…it’s a pattern.
Seems pretty black and white to me. BUT, what in this world is truly black and white? Not much…and expecting something to be so before you take a position on it makes no sense. I mean, I’m against murder. I would never go out and kill someone or plan a murder even if I hated them with every fiber of my being. Killing is wrong.
However, if they threatened my kid, you can better believe I’d blow their head off without an ounce of remorse.
I wrote the following paragraph (off the cuff, so excuse me if it’s not Pulitzer material):
Jennifer’s stomach roiled sickeningly when she saw the words on the screen. One sentence, then two. The chapter changed, a new character’s point of view took over, but the names and places were all wrong. She hadn’t set her book in Scotland, but Ireland. And her hero wasn’t named Ian. And yet, there he was, making love to some bitch named Kate when the woman he truly loved languished in a book with her name on it, written years ago, but hers all the same.
and then, an eagle-eyed reader or librarian (always the best detectives in this situation) reads this:
Sondra thought she was going to throw up as she read the words on the page. First, one sentence seemed familiar, then two. She turned the page to the next chapter told from the hero’s perspective, but the names and places were strange. Unfamiliar. Wrong.
Madre di Dios! She hadn’t set her book in Spain, but Cuba. And her hero answered to Luis, not Fidel. And yet, there he was, fucking some puta named Maria when the his one true love waited for him in her book. Sure, she’d written it a long time ago. She wasn’t even a writer anymore, deciding instead to become a translator for the embassy in Madrid, but damn, these were still her words. Hers. And she wasn’t going to sit by and let this go unpunished.
That’s plagiarism. Seems pretty simple. There’s a pattern of the same idea, the same cadence, the same progression of story as the original…even if the words are entirely different or at the very least, mostly different. I paraphrased without attribution and that’s WRONG.
Another situation that hasn’t been mentioned was Gina Wilkins and some plagiarist whose name escapes me. You can read more about it here:
Julie, that’s a great idea. But DSMW? Googled it — not terrible. Digital Soil Map of the World. Hmmmm.
How about Stop Taking Our Words (STOW)? Stop Hijacking Our Words (SHOW)? Stop Looting Our Words (SLOW)? Okay. There’s a reason I didn’t major in marketing. :-P
Great idea, though.
>>My desire for open discussion regarding plagiarism is not about this blog or the SB blog or any blog. It’s about the fact that the community of the genre, comprised of readers and authors should discuss this openly.<<
Where is the community of the genre that involves both readers and writers other than sites like this one?
I’m not being facetious here, Jane, I truly am curious. If we are excluding blogs (given your comment quoted above, and the knowledge that the “online” romance community is an very small one compared to the actual readership)–how exactly is the average romance reader on the street supposed to know how everyday authors A-B-and C feel about this issue, or how insidious and nasty it is, unless she meets them at a book signing or hears them speak? Okay, that was a long sentence, but hopefully you get the point.
I know there are conferences specifically designed for author/readers get-togethers (RT, Celebrate Romance, etc.) but we’re talking a tiny little drop in the bucket of readers and very few authors. There’s one “official” industry magazine–and you know it’s not going to be discussed there because 95% of RT is for reviews and advertising and the rest is fluff. The RWR is for writers, not readers. Ditto Writer’s Digest, etc. And the mainstream media usually doesn’t cover romance unless it’s Valentine’s Day or time for the latest cover snark story. So we’re back to the internet: blogs, message boards, e-newsletters. Back to that very small percentage of the readership. And they ARE hearing it from authors…not all authors, because not all authors are blog-savvy or internet-trusting. But they are hearing it.
As far as this being discussed among writers, why on earth do you think it isn’t? I’ve been in the RWA since 1997. I was at the Orlando conference when the Roberts/Dailey story broke and EVERY person at the conference was talking about it and has talked about it again and again. The issue of plagiarism has/does/will continue to come up in discussions with my blogging partners (75% of us, remember?) my RWA chapter meetings, my RWA chapter loops, my “group author” loops (including today, by the way.) As I’ve said several times–it’s discussed enough that I could easily name dozens of authors who loathe the very thought of plagiarism (and many who’ve been touched by it themselves) and not a single one who’s ever defended it. I can’t recall whether or not there have been specific workshops at Nationals on it–I’ve never attended one, but I know they run the gamut on other legal writing issues, so I have to think it’s been addressed.
When an aspiring writer wrote to me and listed specific sentences and descriptions from one of my books that she wondered if she could “borrow” for use in her own, oh, boy, did she get a lesson on plagiarism. And when I see someone I know reading a Dailey book, or even glancing at one, that person gets a history lesson from me, too.
So we’re trying. But what else can we do, especially those authors who, as I said earlier, just don’t feel comfortable exposing themselves in an online arena for their own multitude of reasons, and who aren’t likely to be sought out by the mainstream media to share their opinions? If they’re talking about it among their colleagues but not seeking out readers to educate on the plagiarism issue, are they still painted with the “silence means they don’t care” brush?
In my opinion (obviously) the answer is no.
Robin:
I can see glimmers of pitchforks. But, as of right now, I’m not seeing any “no big deal” type comments. Did I miss those, or are you mainly speaking about previous brouhahas?
Jane, thanks for your spin on the common knowledge rule. Yes, research can be a bit “iffy” sometimes.
Phyllis–turnitin.com is the site I was thinking of. Many of my colleagues use it, and the reason it is so necessary is the internet. I can’t tell you how many papers I get with chunks of wikipedia thrown in without citation.
Jessica
Late to the party here today, but such a great topic. I’ve been reading the Cassie Edwards debacle here and at the SB’s and am appalled. And I can’t believe Janet Dailey is still in publishing. I shake my head and mutter under my breath whenever I pass by her books in the bookstore.
I had an entire e-book plagiarized on a fanfic site a couple years ago. An entire e-book. They changed the title, but every single word, including the character names, remained the same. Not very clever. And I had to fight like hell to get it removed.
Plagiarism is vile and a huge threat to writers everywhere. As writers, we have to stand up and scream NO! long and loud to anyone and everyone and anywhere we can whenever it rears its ugly head. And Julie, it’s scary that our children aren’t being taught about plagiarism, but I agree and it’s sad and scary and it would be great if we could do something to support better education about it.
Excuse me while I polish my horns…
I’ve read through this here and at SBTB but haven’t commented at either place before now. My silence IS NOT tacit approval. Not commenting before now was simply my way of not adding to the pile on (which is not to say I’m in any way sympathetic to CE; I’m not).
If you want to turn this post into a petition wherein authors add comments saying they find plagiarism deplorable, consider this my signature. But don’t consider my (previous) silence as acceptance of plagiarism.
For every author and reader online here, there are dozens who don’t visit these sites. There are hundreds more who don’t roam online at all. So the silence could just be people not visiting DA and SBTB and therefore don’t know about the discussion. Even if they know, they’re not going to come here and run up 200 “me too!” posts. Some people just don’t like to do that.
Actually, plagiarism can be done accidentally. Now, you have to be pretty careless to do it, but it’s possible.
One of the things we were taught to do Back In The Day when dinosaurs roamed the Earth and computers lived in the basement of the science building was to take notes on index cards. If we came across a passage in a book that we thought might be useful for future citation, we were supposed to write it on the index card like so:
All brontosauruses are thin at one end, much much thicker in the middle, then thin again at the far end. — A. Elk, “My Theory”, page 217.
Now, if you were sloppy about doing this, you might end up with a few index cards that said something like The brontosaurus was the king of thunder lizards. Then you would wrack your brains trying to remember whether this was your brilliant insight, or whether you’d taken it from J. Filboid-Studge’s 600-page tome that you’d already returned to the library.
Here’s where the carelessness comes in. The careful writer would say, “Well, since I don’t remember whether that’s my own work or a secondary source, I’m not going to include it in the paper.” The uncareful writer just goes ahead and bungs the thing right on in there and hopes for the best.
So it’s not inconceivable that some limited plagiarism can happen unintentionally–but when it does, it’s still unprofessional and sloppy and disrespectful, and the plagiarist needs to put on the big-kid underpants, apologize, and do what he or she can to make things right.
As one of the co-owners of Romance Divas, I will be sure our members know about this. Not only will they care, but our members (who are mainly writers) are also voracious readers with the power to express themselves through the almighty purchasing dollar.
Plagiarism is stealing. Plain and simple. For those of us who consider our books to be our children, it’s really a form of kidnapping. Absolutely disgusting.
Not quite off-topic: talking with my mother about this, I asked her what the Spanish noun for “plagiarist” is–as I couldn’t remember it at the moment–and she fired back, “ladrón (thief).” Made my morning.
I read stuff like this, or like the assertion by author Melissa Blue that “how [the examples were] found lends itself to criticism,” or how Janet Dailey can proudly proclaim on her website that she is the “#1 Best-Selling Author in North America,” or the assertion by Jill Sorenson on the SBs that Candy and Sarah’s posting “smacks of a witch hunt” and I think — something’s off in the Romance culture around the plagiarism issue. And when I read your comments here, I don’t quite get the disagreement between you and Jane, because IMO everything you are saying is justifying everything she is saying — namely, that there is a culture of silence around plagiarism that is caused by and causes fear. Fear of what I’m a little foggy on, perhaps because I can’t imagine anything that would weigh as worse than having plagiarism be the subject of fear and anxiety and ignorance and even tolerance (i.e. Janet Dailey is still being published; in fact, read the editor comment on her website for an interesting take).
I remember being a wee graduate student, and every time the writing TAs would meet, we’d discuss what was happening in our classes. If we had a case of plagiarism to share, that was an opportunity for all of us to go back to our classrooms and preach to the rafters about what plagiarism is, how to avoid it, and what could happen if you’re caught doing it. We didn’t even hesitate because we knew that the only way we were going to get our students to understand both WHAT IS WAS and WHY IT WAS BAD was to deliver the message and broadly and loudly as we could.
So color me baffled that every author in reach of the Internet isn’t posting ANYWHERE (and according to Laurie Gold, AAR gets 310,000 unique visitors a month, so lots and lots of readers ARE online) — whether that be their own websites, blogs, fan messageboards, etc. — about the issue. NOT about Cassie Edwards, necessarily; in fact, her name wouldn’t even need to be mentioned, as this is an ongoing issue and concern. Can you imagine, for example, what would happen if the authors on the Avon Ladies board, for example, started a public discussion on plagiarism there? I guarantee you that those readers over there would be spreading the good word of awareness, too, and that plagiarism would be a very hot topic online, garnering respectful discussion not talk of a witch hunt. I just went over to that board and put the word “plagiarism” in the search box and got NOT ONE hit. NOT ONE.
I honest to god do not understand why this is such a taboo subject IN GENERAL in a writer-reader oriented community. I mean, Cassie Edwards has published MORE THAN 100 NOVELS! How many of them, do you think, have unattributed source work in them? That Nora Roberts was the one vilified when Janet Dailey was found to be plagiarizing says it all to me about the way plagiarism is — or more properly isn’t — treated within the public realm of this community. That doesn’t mean Jane or the SBs are looking for comments on THEIR blogs; instead, I think they’d be thrilled if everyone who saw the posts went back to their own blogs, websites, and writers groups and spoke out about why this is such an important issue within any community of authors and readers (especially one in which so many readers are themselves aspiring authors). Because clearly, plagiarism is NOT part of the common vocabulary of public discussion about the genre, or there wouldn’t be the fear, there wouldn’t be the anxiety, there wouldn’t be the silence when something like this Cassie Edwards thing happens, because people would be used to and comfortable with talking about it. That there seems to be so much discomfort in talking about it seems to me completely counterintuitive and counter to the interests of both authors and readers.
There does seem to be a camp chanting “witch hunt” and “mob”. Even a popular review site posted on a blog that she deleted her initial post about this because her opinion would be unpopular and that she would get negative comments from the “mob”.
Isn’t this back to blame the victim? I too cringe whenever I see J. Daileys books and really couldn’t believe that a reputable publisher would sign her up. I mean really how can you defend plagerism-besides the “it was an accident” or “being off my psych meds made me do it” ?
Yeah, see, this kind of stuff suggests to me that there’s a taboo around something that people should be talking about regularly and comfortably. Not because they feel they *have to* but because it’s simply part of the cultural discourse.
Robin, we may not have the same traffic as Avon Ladies, but Google “Plotmonkeys” and “plagiarism.” You’ll get hits, trust me. And we try very hard not to “do” controversial on our blog. However, to us, this is not controversial. It’s cut-and-dried wrong. Maybe, because as Leslie said earlier, three out of four of us have been plagiarized…and for all we know, the fourth one has too, but no one has caught it yet.
Robin, do I know what you mean. At the same time, as a teacher who (spending far more time than it should need) teaches how to research, what plagiarism is (and that it includes “unacceptable paraphrase”), I want to roll my eyes (more with you than at you). For the love of God, giving credit to your sources is not rocket science. Kids who plagiarize their term papers (and what teacher has not chortled merrily over a “Click here” in the middle of the essay?) are lazy. Too lazy to even read what they stole, apparently. I’m not convinced that it is at all about not knowing what plagiarism is, and all the teaching in the world isn’t going to convince that type that it’s better to work than steal.
As as a general comment about CE, I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, a novelist who copies nearly word for word is an embarrassment to her profession.
On the other hand, to a naive little corner of my heart, this particular story is pitiful. Here’s Cassie Edwards, reviled for writing stereotypes instead of characters, putting actual book learnin’ in her novels. Boy, she just can’t win.* That’s sad.
*Yes, I know the plagiarism part means she doesn’t deserve to. Still. Ouch.
It’s easy to rail against plagiarism. I doubt the practice has any public supporters. Yes, yes already, we all know it’s BAD. Like we know Internet predation is bad. Like we know poor hygiene is bad. So let’s move on to Step Two. What, really, are blog ranters trying to accomplish? What meaningful results do they hope to achieve?
An ordinary, non-writing reader could justifiably respond, “Okay, I get the point…now what the hell do you expect me to do about it?” What would you say to that person?
“All right, dear reader, this is your role in the Battle Against Plagiarism. You must boycott all books by offending authors. Here are their names. Then you must write outraged letters to their publishers and agents. Next, you must spend as many waking hours as possible poring over every work of fiction in print, and then you must Google stand-out words and phrases to look for suspicious similarities. And then…”
Get my point? This and the Smart Bitches thread, laid end to end, could girdle the globe…yet all the posters are doing is agreeing with one another. It’s like a big ol’ righteous-indignation circle-jerk. So where are y’all going from here?
>And when I read your comments here, I don’t quite get the disagreement between you and Jane, because IMO everything you are saying is justifying everything she is saying — namely, that there is a culture of silence around plagiarism that is caused by and causes fear. Fourth, because silence by authors gives tacit approval and perpetuates the idea for readers that this plagiarism thing is no big deal.<
I say there are plenty of other reasons authors aren’t shouting about publicly, including because, heck, they don’t even KNOW this is happening. Silence does not equal approval.
That last message didn’t turn out right because of me trying to quote two different things. Robin, I was trying to answer your question by saying the reason I’m disagreeing with Jane is because of one single sentence in all of today’s (and yesterday’s) epic writings. This one:
Fourth, because silence by authors gives tacit approval and perpetuates the idea for readers that this plagiarism thing is no big deal.
That’s what I’m disagreeing with.
I usually don’t get into “big-issue” discussions but here I just want to say that SBs are doing important work–I hope the unearthing of and publicity around Cassie Edwards’ plagiarism will deter some would be plagiarizer, knowing how easy it is to get caught now–and that Jane and Janet are doing equally important work by trying to broaden the audience for the discussion on this subejct.
My point, Ms. Kelly, is that it needs to be discussed until there is longer fear of reprisals. Until every reader is educated on the manner. Is this one big circle jerk? I guess so if nothing does anything about it but to me doing nothing is staying silent.
And if there are authors that you, Ms. Kelly know and that are in your RWA chapter, that are ignorant of this matter, why not tell them about it? Is it not important enough? Is there some fear that someone will think poorly of you? The mere fact that some are afraid to talk, some authors, lends this idea that plagiarism is okay. You might not agree with me but that is how I see it.
It has nothing to do with blog comments or blog traffic. If I really cared about that I would post a mocking post of a couple of authors today. I would have had a ton of traffic and a ton of posts. This is about the community of readers and writers taking a stand on what I see as a black and white issue. Either it is wrong to copy word for word prose (whether it be non fiction or fiction) into your own work and claim it as your own. Or it is okay to do so. Where is the in between standard?
And if the fact that Bestselling authors are doing this isn’t enough, then let’s look at Diana Gabaldon’s statement to her readers and aspiring writers on the Compuserve writing forum:
At the forum Ms. Gabaldon says this:
So essentially, I could take Jane Austen’s work and pass it off as my own? I think that Gabaldon is conflating copyright infringement with plagiarism but I could be totally off base. The fact is that plagiarism, as defined above, is any non attributed copying or even slight paraphrasing. There is no distinction between public domain works and works under copyright when determing plagiarism. If Kaavya Viswanathan had mimicked 40 pages of Bronte instead of McCafferty, it is still plagiarism.
Jane, I can understand your frustration, but this isn’t going to happen. It’s a wonderful idea… but not a likely one.
Online readers tend to be dedicated, fervent readers and they’ll do what they can to show their disapproval by not buying, but telling friends, etc.
But the readers you won’t reach are those that aren’t book junkies. Those who read a book every few weeks, once a month. They aren’t going to be made aware unless there’s some big stink over it, like the Frey/Oprah scandal. I can imagine there are some who would react by just shrugging and going… well, that sucks. But that would be the extent of their concern. I bet I know people who’d react just that way. A lot of people, unless it affects them, don’t worry about things like this.
Talking to other authors about it? It does happen. I know I’ve been involved in discussions over it in my local RWA chapter. But those discussions aren’t always going to make a difference. Most, and I say most, not all, but most of the writers involved in such discussions wouldn’t dare plagiarize. And those who would…. chances are discussion isn’t going to keep them from doing it.
People who take short cuts rationalize it away. They excuse their behavior. IMO, it’s in their nature.
Awareness among authors isn’t really an issue. We are aware. But I’d imagine the authors that have plagiarized were also aware yet it didn’t stop them.
Raising awareness among the general public is a lovely idea, but the cynic in me says that most people outside the romance genre won’t care.
Jane, honestly, Leslie Kelly is a very outspoken person against plagiarism. As I posted previously, she and I have discussed this topic at our own blog on more than one occasion and publically. She has gone on several loops and told them about the discussion here (as have I) long before you invited her to do so. I really don’t think we should be chastising people in the choir, so to speak.
I see Shiloh’s point, though, but I chose to speak out anyway. I’ve been doing it for years. I started a conversation on the topic on my RWA loop today and guess what? Only about three people chimed in. Why? Because I think most people think, “This is clearly wrong and I have nothing more to add to this discussion.” It’s cut and dried.
Reaching readers? Not so much. Like someone said before, if readers didn’t react to the Oprah/Frey thing with outrage, if they joked to Nora about the thievery against her, then they will be hard to reach. But I’m sure authors will do their part where they can.
And since most if not every single plagiarism situation I’ve heard of was discovered by a reader or librarian (though I can think of one that possibly was found by the author herself) I think people out there DO know this is wrong. But just as I said in an earlier post, everyone knows murder is wrong, too…doesn’t mean people have to talk about it all the time.
That said, I still think it should be talked about more. That’s why I’ve been here all day instead of working on my WIP.
I’m standing with K Z and Leslie on this one. As an author, if I’m afraid of anything, it’s not speaking out on plagiarism. It’s a sentence like this:
Fourth, because silence by authors gives tacit approval and perpetuates the idea for readers that this plagiarism thing is no big deal.
Although the theft has been going on for years, the uncovery is less than 48 hours old. But already there is the assumption of closed ranks and a conspiracy of silence among authors.
I’m sorry, but I find it very threatening that anyone would assume I approved of plagiarism, just because I didn’t say out loud that I don’t. It’s stealing. I’m against it (and the other nine commandments. I also hate terrorists, and people who are mean to puppies).
The idea that we all need to be seen agreeing to prove that we’re on the right side of the issue is stifling to conversation. As is the idea that there better not be any hesitation or waffling about getting online and saying something.
While I might not want to waste my time on this pathetic person by adding to the endless string of posts, it does not mean that I want to give her tea and sympathy, or that I condone her actions.
At this point, I don’t see how repeating what we all know is true will do anything to solve the problem. Especially since the people guilty of the crime of plagiarism are just the sort to lie about it, and stand beside us as we shout ‘Down with plagiarists!’
What I really want to hear, at this point, is a response from the publishers and the accused author. I don’t think there’s going to be any magic revelation that will explain everything. But the people on the other side of this deserve a chance to speak. At the very least, it will tell us all something about the future of these books and this author in the marketplace.
But it has still only been less than 48 hours. While we all might be hardwired to the internet, it is too soon to accuse people of dodging an issue that they might not have heard about, if they haven’t been online for a day or two.
In answer to KZSnow: As Stephanie Baker says here http://www.toasted-cheese.com/ezine/3-2/lenz.htm, the more publicity, the better a chance for plagiarists/thieves to face the consequences of their actions in a way that will actually impact their future choices: their pockets. And word of mouth, through bloggers ‘rantings’ or otherwise, is a form of publicity.
And if there are authors that you, Ms. Kelly know and that are in your RWA chapter, that are ignorant of this matter, why not tell them about it?
I did. All over the place. As soon as I heard about this. I suggested that members of my RWA chapter and my author loops come here and to SBTB, whether they wanted to comment or not, just to get a quick-and-dirty primer on just how ugly and dangerous an issue this is. And considering the number of notes I got in response, I think a lot of people did.
Is there some fear that someone will think poorly of you
Okay, I’ve been opening my mouth about this all day, putting my opinions out there. So how exactly am I being scared off by the fear that someone will think poorly of me? Could I have said much more plainly that plagiarism is vile and I loathe the thieves who do it, and that I’ve been a victim myself?
Didn’t one of my posts today make it clear that, in my opinion, this is something that IS talked about at chapter meetings, in critique groups, etc.? I had the feeling that you were saying it is not–that authors don’t talk about it, period. And I was telling you that in my experience they do. Maybe not enough to engage and inform readers…I was very sincerely asking you for ideas on how to do this, and in response, I get smacked by you as being afraid to talk about it. Huh???
How did that suddenly turn into me not having the balls to stand up against plagiarism, when that’s exactly what I’ve been doing (in very long, boring posts, I’m sure) all day?
We–you and I–really are talking in circles now, so let’s leave it at this. We both agree that plagiarism by anyone, in any form, is a horrible, offensive act. And if I have the opportunity to let people know about it, I will.
(Long long LONG post. My apologies.)
I’m coming in late, but I don’t see it as taboo as much as “Well, of course,” and that’s why it’s not being discussed.
Writers know it’s wrong. Readers know it’s wrong. No one will ever convince me that, no matter how many excuses are made, Janet Dailey, Cassie Edwards, and anyone else who does it doesn’t KNOW they are doing something wrong. THEY JUST DON’T CARE. The only time they care is when they get caught. And those readers who don’t care now won’t care later, either — the only thing they’ll care about is if their favorite writer isn’t writing anymore because she was caught. They’ll say “What’s the big deal?”
But for the rest of us, the “big deal” is a given. There’s nothing to discuss about plagiarism, nothing to debate: it’s wrong. Full stop. It’s a disgusting practice, and it’s appalling that the publishers/editors/readers didn’t catch it sooner … although I suspect that if one reader unfamiliar with romance picked up on it so easily, it HAS been discovered before, but swept under the rug (or the publisher/editor/reader didn’t care enough to alert anyone).
If true, that’s disgusting as well. And maybe I’m just cynical, but saying that on my blog is going to be preaching to the choir, and those who are sinning will keep on doing it, praying they won’t be caught.
So to me, the thing to be posting on my blog is “What to do and who to contact if you suspect an author of plagiarism”