And Shiloh…often I’ve sought out a manager at a restaurant to express praise over some job well done. The look on the manager’s face when he or she arrives at the table is one of worry/fear/concern, and then turns to delight and pride when they get the good news.

Many of us only hear bad things and psychology tells us that the negative lasts a lot longer than the positive. Having both is a good thing.

I appreciate the discussion here.

Kudos to Dear Author for allowing frank and open discussion.

I’ll be fascinated to see what Loose Id and the others are like when we hit a decade, considering how quickly the business is evolving.

One thing that would be nice to hear – maybe I’m feeling the time of the year, or something equally as sappy – is some praise for the ePublishers that ARE doing a good job.

I think the praise is most often in the good ebook reviews here and elsewhere. I noted in my Shelly Laurenston reviews, for example, that I enjoyed her ebook releases more than her first NY print book, and I’ve tried to pimp that Samhain series to everyone I can, lol.

Jane and Jayne read SO MANY ebooks, translating into some very, very strong reviews and exposure for many ebooks to those readers like me who are still at a bit of a loss when it comes to finding on our own the ebooks that meet our expectations.

Clearly no publisher is perfect, but I think all of us are aware enough to see how people from various epubs represent themselves and their publisher in the online community, and I’m pretty sure that it translating into more sales in some places and less in others. And the good epubs will either make it for the long run or will find a way to make their exit as easy as possible for their authors, IMO.

You all make excellent points and I agree with most of what you’re all saying. Kink has a market, and depending on how it’s marketed, it can be sizable or not.

Coming out with a book that’s all fetish, sex and little story isn’t what I’d call romance either. The couple, threesome or moresome and their feelings for each other have to be the heart of the story. Ann, ‘having the protagonist going off into the sunset accepting the “darker” or kinkier side of him- or herself’ isn’t romance, it’s sad. But, having a loving couple participate in a fetish together, and perhaps fighting off some dastardly villian, can definitely be romantic.

Shiloh, I also agree with you. Talking about the marketing or chances of decent sales when you’re writing fetish or kink is business. Finding the right place to market is huge. But, I think these smaller epubs might be a good place to start. Finding one that’s going for quality rather than quantity is a challenge. I think I’ve succeeded, but only time will tell.

Interesting and thoughtful replies ladies. Thank you.

However, from the kink I’ve read, the endings are not what I would consider HEA. They’re usually very ambiguous, a lot with the protagonist going off into the sunset accepting the “darker” or kinkier side of him- or herself. If someone markets that as romance–and I have seen it happen–I’m going to feel defrauded.

Also, there has to be more than it than just a HEA. There has to be a serious, romantic relationship that happens within the story, between two (or more if you do the menage and +) people. That relationship, in a romance or an erotic romance, needs to be the core of the story.

Can that be done with kink? Yeah, I imagine it can. But if the kink takes front and center over the romance, then it’s not romance. And, FWIW, I’ve said the same about erotic romance. The sex and the romance are both important but if the sex takes precedence, it’s not well written erotic romance and IMO, it’s not really even erotic romance at all.

I don’t think it’s intolerant to note that if you want to write a story about, say, a hero with a foot fetish, you might have a very limited readership for it. *g*

I don’t really considerate intolerant, either.

Yes, there’s a readership for it. But the readership for the kinkier stuff among romance readers, even those who dig erotic romance, is going to be limited.

There’s a much larger market out there, those who are into kink and labeling it as romance is probably causing them to lose out on a decent amount of the niche market.

anybody can put up a website and call themselves a publisher, regardless of business ability, publishing experience, or even a sincere desire to do honest business.

And I have to agree with Charlene again. Some epubs have become huge and some of the epubbed authors can make a very decent living off of writing alone. And I suspect because of that, others want to cash in.

Nothing wrong with wanting a piece of it… if you do your homework beforehand, deal with all the licensing stuff, the registering, establishing a decent website beforehand, if you’re prepared to work hard, and if you’re prepared to put out quality stuff. And uh… please, when the blurbs go up, make sure they’ve been edited and aren’t full of errors.

Shoddy looking sites, lousy covers, books that read like a rip off from other popular ebook sites, incompetent management, unprofessional behavior, sites full of spelling and grammatical errors…none of this reflects well on the epubbed industry.

There’s an old proverb,

a chain is only as strong as its weakest link

Within the epub industry, there’s been a lot of weak links lately. It’s nice to think we’re judged by the strongest, the best, the most professional, but most of us know that people are more apt to complain when they are unhappy, than compliment when they are pleased.

Last time I said anything to a manager at a restaurant was because the food or the service or both sucked. I hardly ever hunt down a manager just to praise. I can’t be the only one.

Romance is almost always defined as having a HEA. Kink can very well have that.

Jude — You make a good point. However, from the kink I’ve read, the endings are not what I would consider HEA. They’re usually very ambiguous, a lot with the protagonist going off into the sunset accepting the “darker” or kinkier side of him- or herself. If someone markets that as romance–and I have seen it happen–I’m going to feel defrauded.

On a serious note, here’s the big problem I see: anybody can put up a website and call themselves a publisher, regardless of business ability, publishing experience, or even a sincere desire to do honest business. Writers have been the objects of countless scams, and epublishing makes it far too easy for the unscrupulous to set up shop and then fold up and vanish, tying up an author’s rights and owed royalties and leaving a big mess behind. You can’t even assume that all the new epublishers popping up have good intentions, let alone the skills and experience and financial backing to succeed.

I’m all in favor of epublishing as a viable alternative for new voices and innovative stories, but encouraging scam artists and incompetents to go into ebusiness isn’t doing anybody any favors. Everybody loses; legitimate epublishers, authors, and readers.