10. Don’t claim the dog did it. We all know that all but a very few dogs, maybe none other than Underdog, is capable of the task because they have no opposable thumbs. In fact, blaming it on any animal makes us suspect unless it is one of the gorillas studied by Dian Fossey.
9. Don’t plagairize someone famous. The more popular the author, the more likely your plagiarism will be caught out. Try to find someone obscure.
8. Don’t blame it on depression or physical disability, i.e., wheelchair bound stroke victims. Only because that insults wheelchair bound stroke victims everywhere.
7. Don’t set up a website and post the plagiaristic material. If it is on the web, someone is bound to find it, particularly when google indexes it.
6. Don’t do interviews. Again, the more people that hear about you, the more likely that your stealing will be sussed out. Try to rip as many people off before the gig is up.
5. Don’t steal from rich authors. These people are more likely than the poor obscure authors to be able to hire lawyers to sue you into oblivion.
4. Don’t copy word for word. It’s harder to catch out your theft if you mix it up a bit. Maybe try the word randomizer.
3. Don’t advertise as writing “because I feel each person has something unique to share with the world and writing is my gift to share” when, in fact, your uniqueness is actually some other person’s uniqueness.
2. Don’t send to reviewers who are known as “mean girls” because they might make up a top ten list just to mock your stealing and then your gig will really be up.
1. Don’t publish it, particularly as a POD option since it doesn’t really make sense to pay for your own stealing. It kind of defeats the purpose of stealing in the first place.
***
Text from the Prologue of “Of Atlantis”
By Lanaia Lee
From Conception to Devastation
The golden-haired child sat alone, as he usually did, and wondered whether his Father would die today. Some distance away, across the royal gardens , his nurse was talking to the two sentries who guarded him during the hours of daylight. The soldiers, grim eyed warriors, did not look at him and shifted nervously as he approached.
Archimedes was used to this reaction. Even at four he understood it.
He remembered with sadness the day three weeks ago when his Father, garbed for war, had walked along this same garden path, his cuirass gleaming in the sunlight. It was so beautiful that Alexander had reached out to touch the gleaming plates of iron, edged with gold, six golden lions on the breast. But as his hand came forward his Father moved swiftly back.
"Don't touch me boy!" he snapped.
"I would not hurt you, Father," whispered the prince, staring up at the black-bearded face, with its blind right eye like a huge opal beneath the savagely scarred brow.
"I came to say goodbye," muttered Lionus, "and to tell you to be good. Learn your lessons well.â€Â
"Will you win?" the child asked.
"Win or die, boy, " answered the King, kneeling to face his son. He appeared to relax, though his expression remained stern. "There are those that think I cannot win. They remember Onomarchus defeated me when we last met.
* * *
Picture of the text from David Gemmell’s Dark Prince.
Here’s a question for you, Jane. I think you’ll have a pretty good answer. What level of use of material counts as plagiarism?
Let’s suppose that there is an author who is now famous–regularly hits the NYT List–who wrote an earlier book, not particularly well-received–in which there is a scene that I knew I had read before. I knew where I’d read it before. And I looked up the two scenes and compared them, and lo and behold, there they were. They were not identical, of course–there were changes to words here and there, and sentence structure differed (e.g., “he said coldly” versus “his tone was glacial”). But they were so eerily similar that every time I think of this author I get the heebie-jeebies. I’ve stopped buying her books, even though I love her more recent ones.
Am I overreacting?
Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but it sounds like the author is plagairizing herself, right? The creator of the work owns the copyright and if the rights had reverted back to her, then the author is guilty of nothing more than being lazy I suppose.
If she doesn’t have the distribution rights and is publishing the new work with a publisher other than the one that owns the distribution rights, then she could be infringing upon the first publishers’ copyright.
The concept of plagairism is really an ethical one and the only way to enforce it is under the copyright laws. I.e., you have to prove that there is unlawful copying. Taking someone else’s original work and passing it off as your own (i.e., without attribution) is considered to be a violation of the copyright law. If it is work quoted and properly attributed and used under the “fair use” exception, it is not copyright infringement.
I don’t know if that answers your question.
No. The author is not plagiarizing herself. The scene that gives me pause comes from a book written nearly 30 years before by someone else–a book which is definitely not in the public domain at present.
As for ethics–I think there’s stronger enforcement mechanisms than copyright actions. The reason why I haven’t said anything about this is that I think an accusation of plagiarism, especially when backed up by the specific scene in question, could well ruin her career. Not because she gets sued, but because people stop taking her seriously as an author.
I see that’s still unclear. Here’s the breakdown.
Book from approx. 1950s (guessing, don’t remember actual publication date).
Book from late 80s or early 90s by now-famous NYT-List author contains several paragraphs, set in a nearly identical scene, with words slightly changed but not completely, in a way that makes me believe that it is not just the idea of the scene that is copied but this individual expression.
*Sigh* Once again, it’s like watching a train wreck. You can’t look away. For even more scary thrills, check out the “agent” listed at the author’s website.
Barnes and Noble Link
Has a very handy See Inside the Book feature which matches the excerpt to a T. The plagiarist seems to not know how to use search and replace as in her excerpt, she actually neglected to replace one of instances when the child is refered to as “Alexander”.
Shocking.
How could anybody think they would be able to get away with this sort of ridiculous claim?
Holy effing dog.
Oh. My. God.
I hope he rains legal hellfire and damnation down on that woman.
I love this from the site’s message board:
Gareth: Hi Lanaia, My god, I just loved the taster Of Atlantis, I really couldnt beleive how good it was, especially when I read it originally in David Gemmell’s Dark Prince.
i’m so clueless. i have no idea what this is all about. i thought maybe it refers to david gemmell (based on tags) but here in the comments people refer to a female author.
Maya,
The female author, Lanaia Lee, copied David Gemmell’s Dark Prince word for word, and then tried to have self published
See, here is the Dark Prince and here is what she claims to have written.
This is wild! She’s either got brass balls or is batshit crazy. Or both.
I try really hard not to comment personally on authors, but that….that is just appalling. There is no hiding it, no defending it. How can she even try to claim it as her own?
Maya, just take a look at the chapter one excerpt for Gemmell’s book on B&N and then read Lee’s excerpt.
wowsers.
perhaps the most manipulative thing is reliance on the hesitation there might be to take action on this, because who wants to be known as the person who was heartless towards someone ill and grieving multiple child losses? which really is no excuse to kidnap someone else’s ‘child’
Do you think she’s counting on the fact that Gemmell is dead? Perhaps she’s so crazy she doesn’t understand that his heirs still own the rights?
Lemme get this straight: She submitted something to y’all for review?
Anonymous said: I see that’s still unclear. Here’s the breakdown.
Book from approx. 1950s (guessing, don’t remember actual publication date).
Book from late 80s or early 90s by now-famous NYT-List author contains several paragraphs, set in a nearly identical scene, with words slightly changed but not completely, in a way that makes me believe that it is not just the idea of the scene that is copied but this individual expression.
I am wondering if Anonymous is thinking of the same book and same author I am. It’s bothered me for years, and every time I see a book by the NYT author I start on another search for a copy of the book that I believe was plagiarized.
Gemmell’s dead? Damn it. I really liked those Troy books. they were pretty good.
Does anyone else have a hard time with seeing Ms. Dailey in the best seller section at the store? I cringe everytime I see one of her books because I feel like she’s gotten away (at least in the public viewpoint) with the big NO NO in the world of writing.
I guess it would take her two years if she typed really, really slow. Wheelchair-bound stroke victim and all…
Wow, blatant copying. Makes this person look crazy.
And I’m also really really curious about the author Anonymous is talking about.
Not plagiarism, It was a Homage! *snort*
I’m just stunned that someone can do this and then not slink away when caught and publicly chastised. I love where she claims to see no similarities between her work and Gemmell’s. *roll eyes*
Holy shit.
I’m trying to think of some excuse.
There isn’t any.
Amazing. I’ve been involved in work against plagiarists in fannish circles (where the only payment one gets is the praise of readers) and sadly much of what Jane wrote reads like a checklist of excuses I’ve seen when plagiarism comes to light. And, yeah, the dog ate my homework is often the first excuse.
If she writes from the heart, her heart must beat like this: CTRL + C, CTRL + V, CTRL + C, CTRL + V…
Hmmm…. perhaps she’s the one who “wants a law suit”
Amazing, indeed.
LMAO!!
Don’t forget CTRL + H to find and replace the names.
Thanks, Ilona and Kathryn. Like Maya was having a hardtime trying to figure out what was what, but after reading the two excerpts…. Holy Shit! That’s some honking big set of brassy ballocks she has. Shameful.
“Don’t forget CTRL + H to find and replace the names.”
Ah, but she did forget.
And I second on the LMAO.
I am especially amazed that the author is still claiming its her own work after someone pointed out that she hadn’t changed all the boys names from Alexander, she had left one on line 8….
I am not always great at spotting plagarism, but this one was completely blatant.. Word for word.. I know that they say there are no really new ideas in the world, but thats just stupid… Besides the fact that the book is obviously written much better than the rest of her website…
Anonymous:
Any non attributed use of copyrighted material would be plagiarism. In fiction, however, the scenario you describe does appear to be plagiaristic. I.e., merely changing a few words “he said coldly” to “his tone was glacial” within a similar scene, I do believe that would inappropriate.
The copyright holder has the right to bring a suit for copyright infringement or, I suppose, you could bring a claim for conversion (that’s the civil word for theft) but I don’t know of any other mechanism to punish plagiarism.
Like Bonnie, I cringe when I see Janet Dailey’s work constantly selling but she does sell so the taint of plagiarism hasn’t really affected her financially it appears and that may be the case with your “anonymous” author.
Ok, so I write fanfic in my own time in my own journals and maybe share it with friends for laughs, but to outright claim it’s mine? Disgusting…
It’s a shame the website has been caught up in this. I hope that they try to be more careful in the future. But then again, how does one check all this? This lady really is clueless too… or too stubborn to admit it.
Since “Of Atlantis” is the first of five books, it begs the question as to who the other inspirational authors are. Dark Prince is one of a duology.
I think the oversharing of the author about her personal tribulations are to make you feel sorry for her and to excuse any actions. I.e., how can you accuse someone who’s had such a bad life of doing anything wrong?
And yes, Dear Author was given the delightful opportunity to interview this author even though she acknowledged there would be no payment for the interview but we weren’t given an actual review copy. I guess I should have asked for one.
Have any of you even considered that maybe she is the real David Gemmell? Did any of you ever meet David Gemmell when he was living? Didn’t think so.
The defense rests, your honor.
What fascinates me about word theft, is the why of it. Why would a person believe they can get away with it? And why would they want to? It’s like cheating at solitaire, there’s no thrill in the win. But then, I guess there are people who get a thrill from simply “getting away with it.” I just so-o don’t get that.
I wonder if she really exists or if she is a profile someone set-up to make money. People have to pay to get the full stories, so why not just plagerize a whole bunch or works that seem like they would be popular at the time then hope no one notices. And what’s more pitiful than someone in a wheelchair whose lost all her children? I know that seems mean, but in an online world where less and less is checked offline, it’s a scary possibility. This of course, makes this even more disgusting.
EC Sheedy, I really agree with you. I don’t understand why anybody would *want* to plagiarize. I don’t see the thrill in it, and don’t understand it at all.
With that said, I’ll admit that I live in fear of unconsciously plagiarizing someone. Word sounds and rhythms really penetrate my head and linger there, especially if I’ve read a particular book over and over.
I’ve had it happen to me with sentence fragments, that I wrote something which later seemed too familiar to me, and then I realized someone else had written it before! Of course, I immediately take those portions out when that happens. But I dread the possibility that someday that could happen again and I won’t catch that I was copying something I’d read before.
But so far, it has only happened to me with sentence fragments, and I can’t imagine that it could ever happen with an entire scene! At that point, anyone would have to recognize that the material wasn’t their own. So I don’t see how Lanaia Lee could claim that this material was hers.
Visit her website-she’s also a poet! A very bad poet!
Aoife:
I don’t know if this is the same person–the book is written as a “homage” to another work of fiction, and it is just a homage in that regard, even though the parallels are very clear. I’m fine with people copying ideas, even copying plots. Whatever. People have bitched about this online, but I think that’s just being overly sensitive.
HOWEVER, that same book contains a scene that feels like it’s lifted from “Cheaper by the Dozen.” The set up for the scene is identical. And there are about ten sentences that map almost perfectly, except for a few word order switches, and a few words changed, e.g. “raspberry trifle” for “apple pie.”
Are we thinking of the same author?
“Did any of you ever meet David Gemmell when he was living? Didn’t think so.”
Hey – Maybe it’s David Gemmell reincarnated! You know, ’cause he didn’t wanna be dead, didn’t wanna be a baby, he just hopped on in. ‘Cause there was all this unused space in her head.
“Visit her website-she’s also a poet! A very bad poet!”
Seriously. My friend’s 14yo emo daughter’s a better poet.
I feel bad when I take a sentence or paragraph from one of my dead C drive hanging stories and use it in something else. I think this will likely take the wind out of her sails–the being caught, that is.
There is a writing exercise where you take a famous story and type it out with your own fingers to feel the sentences, to understand the way the author constructed it. Seems to me she might have taken that a bit too far!
Jessica
If she doesn’t have a mental condition that causes her to be delusional, then I am stymied by such egregious theft. It defies logic.
I’ve been asked to stop harassing the “author” and forbidden to post about it. whoops.
Whew! That’s appalling.
Luckily, I read one Janet Dailey Harlequin Presents a million years ago. That cured me for any future purchases.
God, Jane! You’re such a meany!
This isn’t harassment. It’s performing a public service.
Yeah, Jane! How dare you point out when someone steals word for word!
You shouldn’t be mean, Jane. It is not her fault:
OhPlease: GEMMELL. Although why you should spell the name of the guy you ripped off better than you spell anything else . . .
Lanaia: When I first started Of Atlantis, I hire a ghost writer Christopher Hill. I see what he did now and for that I aplogize. I was scammed. I apologize to Mr. Hemmel’s memory and his family.
Just when I think it can’t get more absurd…
I clicked into the Long Story Short on the sidebar. The publisher’s husband has throat cancer and they don’t have insurance. I’m trying not to laugh at misfortune, but dang! it’s straight out of Mrs. Giggles!
Why shouldn’t you be allowed to warn potential readers what a delicious, fabulous fraud she is?
Asked by WHOM???? I cannot abide plagiarism in any form. I’ve been known to move a certain plagiarists books to behind others in bookstores, THAT’s how militant I am. No excuse. NONE. EVER.
Oh, it’s the ghostwriter’s fault! Hmm. Nice try (or not).
How can her voice be original if she is hiring a ghostwriter. And who hires a ghostwriter for a self published book? WTF?
And yes, I feel terrible about exposing the CTRL-V and CTRL-H writing. That’s why I wish people wouldn’t post their ghostwritten plagiarism for me to mock.
A ghostwriter? LOL! She used a ghostwriter to write the story of her heart?
Christopher Hill, damn you! You have betrayed this woman’s trust! You blew it up! God damn you. Damn you all to hell!
Why would a virtually unknown author hire a ghostwriter? Isn’t that kind of putting the cart before the horse? Or something like that.
All this CTRL-V and CTRL-H is making it hell on Mac users to understand what you’re talking about! If this the same as Apple F?
The ghostwriter who must have written the entire novel, in which she did not change a single (!) word.
Awww, feel sorry for poor Lanaia. Just think – first her ghost writer turned in a horribly spelled manuscript with comma over load, that can’t even keep the character’s names straight. And then it turned out to be plagarised also! And after she spent two years of her life asking if it was done yet! And the copt right, she owns. Plus all the effort she went through making sure there were witnesses when she hired the ghost writer.
(And man, watch that site counter climb. Ten times as many hits in one day as she’s gotten her whole, previous time posted.)
I’m trying to keep up here, but Bam keeps distracting me.
So the woman with the wheelchair, no kids and a unique voice but no money hired a ghostwriter who then plagiarized a popular author.
If you self-publish a book that another writer plagiarized from another writer, is the book still self-published? Hell, it’s not even self-written. It’s more like an illegal reprinting of an illegal reprinting.
So much more original than my dog ate it. My ghostwriter did it!
Or…maybe the ghostwriter’s dog ate it.
CTRL-V – paste
CTRL-H – search and replace.
Hey, someone go make an urban dictionary entry and give credit to Bam.
CTRL-V – plagiarism. as in using the CTRL-V to “write” a novel.
A ghostwriter? F*CK, that totally kills my Lanaia Lee is REALLY David Gemmell theory. Thanks a lot, Lanaia.
Is it my subtle wit and razor-sharp intellect?
Which reminds me: Lanaia (wtf name is that?) totally reminds me of those freakshows on Livejournal who plagiarize fanfic, then when they get caught they say they’re sorry for their poor judgment but they’re dying from cancer and the chemo is messing them up and then they create sock-puppets to vouch for them and make Amazon wishlists asking for Bonne Belle Lipsmackers.
Isn’t that what people in Florida call their three-season rooms?
Or as JR Ward character would say, “Damn, I got so busy Ginsu knifing the Lessers last night that I so tewtally forgot to write my term paper. Looks like I’ll be CTRL-veeing it, yo.”
Here’s her latest:
Lanaia: I take total responsibility, and under the advice of my attorney, this will be fixed. My stroke, I almost died, I would never intentionally take advantage of the dead. Contact my agent and lawyer
But I might unintentionally take advantage of the dead, and those who are fortunate enough to still be alive – watch out suckas.
Awww… this reminds me of that one time someone negatively responded to a bad book review and then blamed it on her miscarriage.
Can’t remember who it is, for the life of me.
This morning, I ate a whole box of Krispy Kremes creme-filled glaze. My aches and pains from two hours of Pilates the other night, I almost died, I would never intentionally take advantage of Krispy Kreme’s delicious buttery goodness.
Maybe taking advantage of the living is ok, but she hadn’t realized Gemmell was dead?
The extra sad bit is that she apparently had to pay a lawyer to help her understand that this is illegal.
… reminds me of those freakshows on Livejournal who plagiarize fanfic, then when they get caught they say they’re sorry for their poor judgment but they’re dying from cancer and the chemo is messing them up
Did you see the one where they used “Hurricane Katrina made me do it”? That’s the most original yet. Check out fandom wank over at journalfen for some lovely ones.
Even plagiarists’ excuses make no sense. It’s no wonder they can’t come up with a decent plot on their own.
Contact her agent and lawyer? WTF? This just keeps getting better . . . I have no need to contact them, but Gemmell’s heirs might.
Here’s the latest latest: “I have erractic hypertension, you keep dogging me I could have another stroke, contact my agent and attorney, I’m sure no one wants mt blood on their hands”
I don’t know if it’s bloodlust or something incited by the free-for-all mocking of this poor, deluded woman, but my inner Beavis just chanted “do it! do it!”
Lame excuses are not limited to fan fiction. If you read the above link to a paper about Nora Roberts and Janet Dailey, you’ll be enlightened with Dailey’s great excuses:
‘I’ — did not plagiarize. Instead the dirty deed was done by “my essentially random and non-pervasive acts of copying,” Dailey said. “I don’t know what that means,” said Nora Roberts.
and
Dailey said her “acts of copying” were “attributable to a psychological problem that I never even suspected I had.” Dailey suffered stress when her husband contracted lung cancer and she lost two brothers to cancer. “They had a dog that was 13 years old that died, too,” said Dailey’s Los Angeles publicist Sanford Brokaw.
Man I love it when the perp tries to play the victim. Makes me sad that for some reason I can’t get on to that message board. Yes, I’m addicted to rubbernecking at train wrecks.
man, excuses won’t fly with my mom at all. like, on Saturday mornings, when she drags me out of bed, yelling “Dios ko, anak, clean your room! You’re too old to have the dirty room of a teenager!” and I’m like, “but my back and head hurt” and she says, “They’ll hurt more if I kick you out of the house and you’re forced to live under a bridge like a troll!”
Her “agent” is a scam agent who has “sold” manuscripts only to vanity publishers, and Christopher Hill (if it’s the same one that was part of Hill & Hill Agency) was a scam agent. This is either very sick or very sad. I’m not sure which.
I don’t think contacting the agent will do any good because that is what I did and was told to “reframe” from harassing and “forbidden” to post. You know how good of a listener I am, right?
Okay look – she’s 46 and her beloved Jack Russell Terrier who is her only child is 3, right? And she’s been in a wheel chair since she was 35 due to her stroke. Her hubby’s also in a wheelchair. And I would assume, given the sob-version of her life we’ve already been treated to, that if there was a previous Jack Russell child-replacement that died it would have been mentioned.
So WHY in her pic, on her front page, does she appear to be STANDING? With not even a HINT of a wheelchair anywhere in sight for either her or the man I presume to be her husband, since he’s snuggled up to her.
Oh yeah, ’cause she’s a liar.
Hey, Jane, didn’t they teach you in law school how to “reframe” from harassing people? Meany jerk-face!
To “reframe” harrassment – to say it in a new way, as the first time wasn’t enough.
I’m not sure I know what “reframe” means.
Un-freaking- believable.
How come I’ve been working on my book for a year and no one told me about the CTRL-V method of writing. Think of the time and energy I could have saved. Shoot, I could have written 4 or more, I bet!
And, I’m having a total knee replacement on Tuesday so if I enter the Golden Heart this year and you think maybe you’ve read my 55 pages somewhere else, just remember, I was down with a bad knee during Oct and Nov. and have pity on me…just give me 9’s and move on to the next story.
Lorelie,
As much as I hate say this, just because there is no wheel chair Lanaia is not disabled. It may be that she needs the chair some of the time. Given her BMI (and this is not in any way a dig at her person but a simple statement of fact, as I am a plump woman myself), it is highly likely that she is, indeed, disabled.
I’m sure no one wants mt blood on their hands
Oooh, Mt. Blood? I might have to give in to my OCER&N-PCTRL-V disorder and set a book there.
Man, I am so confused.
Argh. I meant to say “Just because there is no wheel chain in the picture doesn’t mean Lanaia is not disabled.”
Me idiot. Nuff said.
Ok, you definitely have a point ilona. I guess I just focused on where she said “they live totally independently and on their own”, assuming that meant they were supposedly fully wheel-chair bound. But you’re totally right.
But she’s an authority. Did anyone read her “Identity” page? She apparently was there when Atlantis fell, designed the Sphinx in Egypt, etc. To quote:
“Not only do I maintain the secret to eternal life, I can change my appearance as often as I like. Alexander the Great, Imhotep, Napolean, Einstein, who do you think they were? They were me.”
Given all of those adventures (including the misspelled ones), I’m sure book plagiarizing ranks pretty low in her grand scheme of things. Wait, I hear some rolling from the graveyard…
If she has the secret to eternal life, what does she care if we have Mt. Blood on our hands?
I think that might be a short story, Kiri, or flash fiction of some sort.
I stand by my original theory that Lainaia is David Gemmell, but isn’t aware of it yet, which is why she’s apologizing because she didn’t even realize she was copying… herself!
“Not only do I maintain the secret to eternal life, I can change my appearance as often as I like. Alexander the Great, Imhotep, Napolean, Einstein, who do you think they were? They were me.”
And she chose to come back as a person struggling with hypertension and strokes. Riiight.
Don’t be the voice of reason, Ann Aguirre. You’re killing my buzz.
I love how people who remember their past lives were never Maggie the chambermaid or Edward the Victorian child who died of tuberculosis before he reached his seventh birthday. Oh no, it’s always Alexander the Great or Elizabeth I or Charlemagne or something.
I can’t help it. I feel a little sorry for her. It’s possible she really did hire some scam artist to write a book for her, so she could show it off to her friends. Vanity, certainly. And then she tried to deny anyone but her had written it because she didn’t want the truth to come out.
And now, she’s faced with the fact that she bought a book by David Gemmell and tried to pass it off as her own. If that’s true, I can’t imagine how she must feel right now. She must be confused and terrified.
If she willfully and knowingly copied, then I wouldn’t feel any sympathy for her at all. But at this point, who knows?
So I can’t poke sticks at someone whose already grievously injured, Dee. Anything I do would just be cruel, considering she’ll be dealt with by Gemmell’s estate agent, one way or another.
The message board is apparently no more. I can’t see it anymore, at least.
Aww. *deflated balloon*
I got carried away. I sowwie. :(
Her “agent” is a scam agent who has “sold” manuscripts only to vanity publishers, and Christopher Hill (if it’s the same one that was part of Hill & Hill Agency) was a scam agent.
So, do we think there’s any chance this woman’s a victim? Let’s say she, like so many other dreamers, answered an ad she found in the back of a writer’s magazine or online. You know, for like the bargain price of $9,995.99 they’ll publish your 57 pages of horror poetry. Oh, and we have this GREAT opportunity for you… They feed her a sad excuse about why the “ghostwriter’s” name can’t be on the book (probably something like he’s a major NYTbestseller under a top-secret pseudonym and his contract won’t allow it), but if we’ll put your name on the book, you publicly claim it as your own and talk about the agony of suffering two years writing it, and we’ll split the money.
I mean, even though it was a stupid plan, it took a certain amount of intelligence to come up with it. Maybe it wasn’t hers?
I found this:
“My name is Mary ____ pen name Lanaia Lee. I have a series of books, known as Of Atlantis, possibly the next Harry Potter, according to my literary agent. I am sure you get requests like these all the time, but I have so much faith in this book, I know if you read this fantasy manuscript you would agree. If you take the time to look over the manuscript you won’t be sorry. I’m including my web site and the e-mail address of my agent in case you are interested, Lanaia Lee , web site, my agent’s e-mail address ______________, her name is Cheryl Pillsbury
Thank you,
Mary _____ aka Lanaia Lee
Also, my book is set to be released October 28th. My book is epic fantasy and would make a fantastic movie, especially since fantasy is so popular.”
dude… if she is a victim of a scam…
damn it, now I have to go to church tonight.
Victoria Strauss of Writer Beware thinks there’s a good chance she was, in fact, scammed by notorious scam agent Christopher Hill. She says it’s ll be on the Writer Beware blog later.
I still can’t say that excuses the “My book is totally different and I sweated over this for two years and everyone who knows me knows how hard I worked”, when the evidence stared her right in the face. Most people when faced with such a truth would at least take the excerpt down to investigate.
I think it’s a possibility, Shannon.
She might also be a thief.
But I have no idea how anyone could prove which it is? Unless she has proof of payment to this Hill character. That’d do it. A cleared check, maybe, or Paypal payment.
damn it, now I have to go to church tonight.
Save me some pew, true?
I’ll hold some wafers for you too, ya feel me?
I’m gonna have to be CTRL-veeing some Hail Ems, dude.
So clever… the message board was deleted. Now, I’m sure, no one will know what happened… has happened… is happening… will happen…
I don’t feel sorry for her getting scammed because even if she was scammed, she maintained that she wrote the book and was given the opportunity to explain her situation and refused to come clean.
Plus, she obviously puts so many personal details out there in order to make you feel sorry for her. Her personal issues were more important that her quality of writing.
Nope, not sorry for her at all. When the first notice of the plagerism was posted she should have shut her website down and investigated it, not tried to brazen it out.
Well, wouldn’t she read her text, especially before posting it? The posting of ‘Alexander’ as the wrong character name in the beginning, wouldn’t she have noticed that?
Aww, Anji… busy authors can’t be bothered to read their own manuscripts. Just ask LKH.
damn. there I go again.
Idle hands… *sigh*
I should really be working.
That was a huge mistake. But I’ve done enough stupid stuff in my life that I can’t condemn her for that. Intentional plagiarism, you bet I could. But pulling a bonehead move and making her sitch worse? Nah. Everybody does that, just not on this scale. Granted, people usually grow out of it. It’s more for teenagers than for 40-somethings.
Things are getting more interesting: her publisher is apparently incapable of telling the difference between your blog and Making Light, and is now threatening you with lawsuits and “wiccan” tenfold retaliation there. It doesn’t bode well for Lee or Pillsbury.
Ok, I give up. Make fun to your heart’s content. I can’t defend someone who is a party to threatening Wiccan tenfold retaliation.
That’s mighty, mighty mojo. Cower all ye foolish unbelievers!
damn. now I really have to go to church. Not for forgiveness, but for protection.
Man, I hope I don’t wake up tomorrow with a ten-inch penis.
It seems that people still need primers on slander vs. libel, which is surprising, given how often that card gets played.
And I wish people would read through their posts more, and check both their spelling and their grammar.
I am way more afraid of the wiccan tenfold retaliation than the lawsuit because I don’t really know what wiccan tenfold retaliation would entail?
I’m a member of Legend Readers which is a David Gemmell related forum, we are all suitably stunned that Lee thought she could get away with this blatant act of plagiarism, and now of course we are shaking in our boots that Pillsbury is now going to put some kind of Wiccan hoodoo on us for being ever so “slightly” peeved about this.
It’s good to see that other people who don’t happen to be fans of Mr Gemmell are as concerned as we are.
Your hair and teeth will fall out. And you won’t be able to spell correctly, no matter how hard you try. And you’ll be compelled to plagiarize like it’s going out of style.
I am already a horrible speller, though. Maybe it’s already started.
In general terms it’s a hex that will cause you to suffer 10 times the harm inflicted. I am a little unclear as to how the elements do the math in such cases, however.
But hives are always a safe bet when it comes to curses. That, and boils.
So OCER&N-PCTRL-V is retaliation, not a disorder. K.
Who is Pillsbury?
And are fraud and plagiarism not covered under the Wiccan do no harm thing?
I thought it was “threefold”. You must have really pissed them off, Jane.
In which case, I’ll be at church with Bam.
Aren’t the wiccans afraid they’ll have mt [sic] blood on their hands?
ohnoes… that means someone will blog about Jane and make fun of her for spelling badly and being a mean girl.
*crickets*
isn’t that every week?
I’m not a-skeered of any Wiccans. I have country hill magic at my side. I can cure pleurisy with two crabapples, some gingerroot, and bat guano. Take that, pagans!
Her site says Roval Publishing Ltd. is her publisher. So I google and head over there to see what they have to say…..from the home page….
“We also offer a host of other services during the publishing process such as arranging for the work to be copyrighted, ghostwriting, editing services, and much more.”
so does this mean she bought a legal nightmare?
Will check myself for boils tonight and report back.
Sweet Jumping Crickets, she has now added Wiccans to her list of “unfairly linked people who had nothing to do with her idiocy and plagiarism.”
From Making Light:
Jane, you’re so in trouble.
Does anyone else have a hard time with seeing Ms. Dailey in the best seller section at the store?
Yep.
It’s a train wreck and I can’t look away…
I must have missed the attorney email. I did get the “forbidden” and “reframe” one from Cheryl though. Is she also an attorney?
“Is she also an attorney?”
Not bloody likely. According to her linkedin page, she has an associate’s degree in electronics.
Making “Wiccan” threats on Making Light is a really bad idea, given the number of Wiccans amongst the regulars who will be only too happy to set her straight on the religion…
If she is an attorney, wouldn’t she have gotten her concepts right – i.e. libel vs. slander?
I think this says it all.
LINK
Three fold. THREE fold, not ten fold. Couldn’t even get the threat right…
From Making
Lanaia, JUST LAY DOWN AND PLAY DEAD!
uh-oh. i totally effed that above post up. Jane, a little help?
I’d never been to Making Light, but there are some wicked funny people over there. And I’m getting nothing done today. I haven’t even fed my kids yet.
So she’s Wiccan, but not a witch…per se. So maybe non-witchy Wiccans get more folds.
thx, jane.
I will pray to the Scribe Virgin to protect you from being punished ten-fold.
I would just like to know this:
Is the attorney in question like that boy I totally dated in high school? You know, he lives in Canada. You don’t know him. I met him at summer camp.
Srsly.
Was his name George Glass?
Man… like Shannon, I haven’t gotten anything done today.
And Supernatural is on tonight.
You know, I felt bad for her when she talked about being scammed. But both she and her agent are making things worse with their postings. And I wish they would spell check.
Also from Making Light and the “agent”:
“I do believe in the 3 fold, I haven’t made an offical threat yet, just words for now.
My lawyer’s are highly recommended and I wouldn’t trade them for anyone or anything.
My writing is the Underworld, not Law.”
Jane, you watch out. When it’s official, it’s like the power of the Underworld!!
x-posted from Making Light:
Oh, it gets better…
“lania” posted a poem that she says appears in On Atlantis:
“Lost so long ago, almost totally forgotten by mankind, almost lost to various chapters, of time, itself
The thought of something so magical, has no room in the rat race of man today
Through out all ancient societies, you will find reference to the amulet, and all it’s magic and wealth
But something of this magnitude, has no place in the rushed life of mortal man today, as he works, as he plays”
…
God in heaven, there’s so much more than the excerpt above. I tried reading further, but my teeth tried to wrap around my head & eat my brain.
And when you’ve got Len Wiseman, Kate Beckinsale, and Scott Speedman backing you up, no power in the ‘verse can stop you.
Yes, that’s right, I just mixed up 2 pop culture references.
*waiting to be struck by lightning*
Ditto, Anji. But I let that go when the stupid hit the fan.
Actually, I’m kind of turned on.
…or maybe I just need a seat on that pew, too.
silmarien
Posted: Oct 11th, 2007 at 4:30 pm
116
I’m a member of Legend Readers which is a David Gemmell related forum, we are all suitably stunned that Lee thought she could get away with this blatant act of plagiarism, and now of course we are shaking in our boots that Pillsbury is now going to put some kind of Wiccan hoodoo on us for being ever so “slightly” peeved about this.
It’s good to see that other people who don’t happen to be fans of Mr Gemmell are as concerned as we are.
This may come out wrong but the author of the original work isn’t the issue, the blatant stealing of someone elses hard work is the issue, in my opinion. :D
Interesting enough, according to her live journal (http://lanaia74.livejournal.com/1764.html) her book, Of Atlantis, was going to be released on Oct. 28th. Such a shame we found out now. Had it been 3 weeks from now, she’d have been really nailed for life!
MjB, do you notice everywhere we go, we just bring it all to a new level of geekery?
I’m gonna go to church for an entirely different reason now. Namely, protection against the sooper-speshul wiccans with enough magick who to put a ten-fold hex on a person.
have you guys noticed the impact of snark is lessened if it’s riddled with typos and misspellings?
My lawyer’s are highly recommended and I wouldn’t trade them for anyone or anything.
Her lawyer’s WHAT are highly recommended? Is it a Mad-Lib?
My lawyer’s _________ are highly recommened and I wouldn’t trade them for anyone or anything. (Naughty Noun)
protection against the sooper-speshul wiccans with enough magick who to put a ten-fold hex on a person.
…Anita?
It seems that people still need primers on slander vs. libel, which is surprising, given how often that card gets played.
Fortunately, J. Jonah Jamison gives us a handy mnemonic in the first Spider-Man movie.
Robbie: “But Mr. Jamison… that’s slander!”
Jamison: “It is not!” [beat] “Slander is spoken. This is libel.”
A slightly different take on the situation, from Writer Beware.
Thanks Victoria. I do have a question – wouldn’t you still read through a manuscript you received back and have noticed different character names, i.e. Alexander instead of Archimedes? And wouldn’t anyone else reading through the text notice something like that too?
ahhhhhhh!!!
interesting.
Besides, if she loves to write as she says on her bio, why the hell would she need a ghost writer to do the job for her?
Of all the days to not check DA… ARGH.
I would feel something for her if she didn’t try to pass off someone else’s work (i.e., the ghostwritten work if that is true) as her own. She has purchased a manuscript of someone else’s work and claimed it as her own. She is doing publicity for it. She emailed me with the request for publicity for this work and proceeds to use her disability and past tragedies as the reason we should be behind her literary works.
She claims that her work is unique. She claims to write from her heart. These are all very deceptive statements. Plus, it is hard to feel sorry for someone who is threatening me with lawsuits and boils.
A slightly different take on the situation, from Writer Beware.
But that still doesn’t answer the question of why this woman and her agent would rush to put out a ms that came from an outed scam artist. I mean, beyond reading the thing, what would make you TRUST it, let alone insist it’s all your work?
What’s emerging as the most interesting issue to me is this issue of ghostwriters for POD “writers” — I mean, doesn’t that sort of defeat the whole ‘author’ concept? Are these outfits basically low-rent packaging companies (like the one that worked with K. Viswanathan)?
There just seem to be so many intellectual honesty issues here it’s difficult to untangle them all.
So the two-year toiling was not on the book, but on making the Paypal payments.
And so, even after learning her “ghostwriter” was a scumbag scam artist, she didn’t read the manuscript? and note 1) the name slip-up and 2) that the style had to have been different if it was only one chapter. And even though she knew about the scam to the extent she’d entered into communications with third parties about it prior to today, she still reacted with outrage and claims of innocence when the plagiarism was brought to light?
If I knew a scam artist had given me a manuscript and then I was accused of plagiarism, I think I would have put up a notice saying I was investigating the allegations and would comment later. I understand she’d be reluctant to admit the book of her heart had been written by a crook for $400 a month, but two and two are still coming up five here.
How sad that this may be causing David Gemmell’s family pain. They deserve the sympathy, not the idiot and her idiot publisher. She had a chance to apologize but she hides behind empty threats, insults and her infirmity.
#164 could it be that she is not the one actually responding to these. That it is in fact her ‘agent’?
I pressured author Ilona Andrews into letting me say that she was the one who caught the plagiarism after she read the link I sent her so we really have Ilona’s great memory to thank and her willingness to speak up.
I do have a question – wouldn’t you still read through a manuscript you received back and have noticed different character names, i.e. Alexander instead of Archimedes?
There was just the one slipup–easy enough, perhaps, to miss when proofreading. Otherwise, all the character names, throughout the chapter, were changed to match Lanaia’s.
I agree it can be hard to feel sympathy for people who collude in their own deception, and I for one am seriously sick of all the desperate shilling that passes for self-promotion among fake-published writers. But honestly, I believe Lanaia, and I don’t think she deserves the abuse people are heaping on her. Especially, it’s not fair to dump on her for claiming a ghostwritten manuscript as her own–she sure isn’t alone in doing that, as many bestselling authors can attest (also, judging by the synopsis portions of the manuscript, she provided a lot of material for a ghost to work with). It’s great to be able to feel justified in saying about one fake-published author what you’d like to say about all of them, but at this point it seems like gratuitous meanness to me.
But that still doesn’t answer the question of why this woman and her agent would rush to put out a ms that came from an outed scam artist.
Her “agent” is the owner of a vanity press and a Publishamerica author. So, about as useful as a literary agent as my almost-three-year-old.
Victoria,
The Gemmell fans on the Legend Board reached the same conclusion. They are a very decent bunch and don’t want to kick her when she is down.
That was part of the reason why I couldn’t either email her or post about it for awhile. I mean, I’m not usually lost for words, but I mostly only came up with incoherent profanity, peppered with threats. So I thought, sleep on it, right? Got up in the morning, wasn’t any better. By that point Jane started an email exchange and she was able to be more detached and rational.
It’s evening now, and I am still very very mad and very tired. I understand that you want to give Lanaia the benefit of a doubt, and I will probably agree with you a week. But right now, I am just going to sit here and quietly be angry. Not the most rational reaction. Sorry. I can’t help it.
my nAM IZ PASTED ON YAY
Well speaking as a person who has a disability I can’t believe she used her situation/disability as a defense- I really don’t have any sympathy at all with her predicament and I hate people who have done this (and in some instances I have seen this happened) Even if she was scammed or not and using the woe is my life excuse is a crock of dren ! Most people who have disabilities have to cope with situations and in some cases prejudices but they learn to adapt and don’t have this sucky attitude. Using her predicament is a cop out because she got caught, she was selling copywrited material she couldn’t be arsed to write herself- You don’t blame your disability or situation. And you don’t take the easy way out either by hiring Tom, Dick and Harry steal r us publishing. You would think with her life experience she could have a wealth of material to use. And the ironic thing is that in my experience, as a disabled person you have to become determined and persevere with something you want and you learn from that- this involves able bodied people as well in all things that is called life. You live you learn sometimes shit happens sometimes good things come along but to attain real worth and goals you have to work for it and never take the easy way because it always ends up biting you in the butt. I never meant this post to be this preachy or serious but I hate people who use their disability for things that go wrong.
No one beyond the actual players will ever know what *really* happened. But what disturbs me is this whole culture of authorship where one doesn’t even have to be the original writer of material sold under the title “author.” Sure, we’re all familiar with celebrities who hire ghost writers to write their memoirs or pen their great American novel idea, but this seems substantively different to me. Of course I’m not particularly comfortable with these professional packaging companies and the whole idea of corporately produced fiction, either. But in a case like this, and without picking on any individual, it seems to me that when you already have such a permissive use of an access to “ghostwriters” that you are inviting a certain level of intellectual dishonesty and potential copyright infringement into the mix. I mean, there’s a reason that copyright infringement is measured in the actual language of one’s expression. But it seems we’re at a place where *authors* are becoming distinct from *writers*, and that bothers me.
BTW, Jane, if you want help with that “curse” from some actual pagans, let me know.
I do feel bad for her being scammed. And I can understand that you can have one slip-up. But, especially in a case where the entire first chapter comes from someone else, wouldn’t you read through carefully? Very very carefully? And if you decide to keep the content, wouldn’t you make it match the rest of your voice?
And the ghostwriter argument – if it isn’t just your work, and someone tells you that there is plagiarism – why wouldn’t you check things out instead of accusing people back, and using your health as an argument? And I still feel uncomfortable with someone claiming a ghostwritten work as originally completely their own. Plus, as Robin said, if the ghostwriter is an outed scam artist – why would you completely trust that ms?
I do feel sorry for her. But that’s also tempered by her and her agent’s postings. I mean, making Wiccan threats? (Plus, would it hurt to check for grammar and spellings?) And, if she knows that the excerpt posted on her website is plagiarized, why wouldn’t she take it down and post some sort of apology/acknowledgment?
Forgot the Lol.
When the witchcraft threats start flying, things start going downhill. And sure, that’s not the “author” spouting words like tenfold and Underworld, but part of the business of being a professional writer is choosing the people who will work with and represent you and your work—agent/editor/publisher.
If you can master Paypal, you can do a Google search.
December – no boils have yet shown up so I think I’m safe. I’ll let you know though. It kind of reminds me of the Kill Bill episodes and the “five fingers of death” (which he borrowed) instead it’s like fifteen fingers of death so I figure some of those fingers of death or curses must cancel each other out.
…part of the business of being a professional writer is choosing the people who will work with and represent you and your work—agent/editor/publisher.
Exactly, Shannon. Exactly. (Even when “your work” is ghostwritten.)
I felt sorry for her at first, as already stated. But I can’t sustain sympathy for someone who lies when given a chance to come clean. I can’t respect someone who tries to feign ignorance when their involvement in something isn’t what it appears — and what’s more, other people know about it. Lying always makes a situation worse. Always.
Very well sad Has.
Sorry, I meant very well SAID Has.
*raising the roof for Ann Aguirre*
Lying always makes a situation worse. Always.
As does threatening anyone with black magic LOL. It would be one thing if she’d come on and simply apologized and told her story. But she reacted, and is still reacting, the way children do when caught with their hands in the cookie jar: Denials and excuses with gradual modifications until you feel people begin to soften, then focusing upon those angles where people are giving in. She still seems unwilling to take responsibility.
I feel no pity for someone who cannot bother to research a business she is getting into. Maybe the brighter among the unaware will pay attention to this and save themselves and others some headaches.
I think it would also help if she actually removed references to her five book series and the excerpt which contains the plagiarism.
It’s like cheating at solitaire, there’s no thrill in the win.
Or like pretending to reach orgasm when you masturbate.
K.Z. Snow for the win!
[...] post is at DEAR AUTHOR. Warning—there are a ton of comments to a story that gets stranger and stranger as it [...]
Anji, it’s quite possible that she can’t even see the difference in style. I’m *not* trying to be bitchy here. There are a lot of people who are completely tone deaf to such things, and who quite genuinely can’t see the difference between between something like Gemmell’s work and the typical book from a vanity press. (I say typical, because alas there are also good authors with good books who get caught by vanity presses.) Such people are likely to fall victim to the many literary scams.
There’s a fascinating article referenced by an old Making Light discussion about literary scams:
“Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One’s Own Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments”
Abstract
People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. The authors suggest that this overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it. Across 4 studies, the authors found that participants scoring in the bottom quartile on tests of humor, grammar, and logic grossly overestimated their test performance and ability. Although their test scores put them in the 12th percentile, they estimated themselves to be in the 62nd. Several analyses linked this miscalibration to deficits in metacognitive skill, or the capacity to distinguish accuracy from error. Paradoxically, improving the skills of participants, and thus increasing their metacognitive competence, helped them recognize the limitations of their abilities.
http://www.apa.org/journals/features/psp7761121.pdf
PDF, but you can also use Google to read it in html if you search on the paper’s title.
And apparently I can’t proof-read long blocks of text…
“Plus, it is hard to feel sorry for someone who is threatening me with lawsuits and boils.”
I give up. *cleaning coffee off the screen for the third time.* LOL! Forget the caffeine. I’ll just let laughter wake me up.
Wow, this is a doozy. Hill was a known scammer and that’s been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. What we need to find out is HOW MANY people have used Hill for a ghost. Just one more writer, with testimony that puts Hill’s ink on their manuscript, would be enough for me to vindicate (somewhat) this poor woman. Surely, there has to be somebody out there that had a similar experience. If not, things look a bit more dubious. Now if Victoria has these records of Hill ghosting for others, then I tend to lay the major part of it on him.
However, WHAT in the hell was she thinking? Was she really that naive? Could the stars in her eyes have struck her down so blindly?
Holy shit.
~I don’t feel sorry for her getting scammed because even if she was scammed, she maintained that she wrote the book and was given the opportunity to explain her situation and refused to come clean.
Plus, she obviously puts so many personal details out there in order to make you feel sorry for her. Her personal issues were more important that her quality of writing.~
Word.
Also word to Ann. Lying always makes it worse–and excuses and threats and whining scrape any sympathy off my conscience.
It’s three-fold, for the goddess’s sake–and no genuine Wiccan would threaten anyone this way. An it harms none.
I’m not going to church with Bam and Shannon, but maybe they’d say a little prayer for me. Never hurts.
Wow, I didn’t check this site for a day and this happens! I have a really hard time feeling sympathy for someone who responds to allegations like that. She didn’t respond that an investigation would start immediately, she kept saying that her work was original and that she wrote it herself. Then when more evidence is brought to light she says a ghost writer did it. I don’t really like the concept of a ghost writer anyways, but if you use one own it. Her story kept changing… It just left a squicky taste in my mouth about her. I’m not inclined to believe her IMHO.
I just reread that and realized that I changed tenses in the middle of my post. Sounds really weird…
I’ve had some, hmm, experience with plagiarists. The litany here follows the usual:
This is my own work. How dare you?
I didn’t do it on purpose.
My lawyer’s going to get you.
It’s not my fault. I was stressed/desperate/ill/mislead/fill in the blank.
My favorite of these from my own experience is: My dog died.
Oh, well, then, help yourself to anything I’ve written!
However, the ghostwriter did it and the weirdly inarticulate pretend Wiccan agent are entertaining additions to the routine.
Jan (at #184), I agree with you about the lying making it worse; and Jules (at #189), you’re right about it being possible that someone simply is style-deaf. (I was writing buddies with a style-deaf woman for a while, and it hurt my brain.)
My partner and I have been discussing this, and while he’s of the “She’s disabled, and has been badly deceived, and we should not pick on her” school, I am more of the “Yes, but she lied, and blustered, and threatened, and sniveled, and tried emotional blackmail, and so my sympathy is very very limited” school. It does remind me, though, that there are people out there who don’t really know how writing and publishing work, and can be taken in… and it makes me wonder what *I* don’t know about, and where I could be taken in. (Though I’d like to think that I’d be smart enough to do research first.)
By the way, you are an interesting and articulate bunch of folks, and will be winding up on my regular reading list, so some good has come out of this. Thank you!
~But it seems we’re at a place where *authors* are becoming distinct from *writers*, and that bothers me.~
Oh-oh, Robin and I agree again. Maybe we’ve been cursed by black magicks.
The difference, to me, is there are those who want to write and be published, and there are those who want to be published. The second group doesn’t care how, doesn’t want to do the work, pay the dues, hone the craft. All they want is their name on a book.
They want to be an author, but see no reason to become a writer first.
I don’t get it, but that’s how it strikes me.
“”I’ve had some, hmm, experience with plagiarists. The litany here follows the usual:
This is my own work. How dare you?
I didn’t do it on purpose.
My lawyer’s going to get you.
It’s not my fault. I was stressed/desperate/ill/mislead/fill in the blank. “”
Oh Dear God, that’s almost to the letter how it went this time. Except this one also had a variation of “I have hypertension and if you keep hounding me, I will have a stroke. You don’t want my blood on your hands!”
Not only she is a fraud, but she actively offered her freelancing services, which also makes her a scammer, since she was using a ghostwritten book (supposedly) as advertisement.
[...] Wow. I hope that you all read the latest entry over at Writer Beware about a MegaScam pulled off by “agent” Christopher Hill. You should also check out the original plagiarism evidence posted at Dear Author. [...]
At this point, I can only shake my head at how Ms. Lee and her agent are presenting themselves. (And if you’re trying to present yourself in a professional manner, for the love of Pete, won’t it help to spellcheck? I know, I’ve said that a few times, but reading through the incoherent postings is exasperating).
I want to note that there are plenty of people, including writers, out there who carry on with their daily lives without demanding extra consideration for their problems, disabilities, etc.
I need to step away from the computer and stop watching this train wreck.
I can’t believe I missed all this! This is what happens when you spend time doing goody-two-shoes work.
And what’s this with Janet Dailey plagiarizing NR? I don’t recall it making the news in Canada. And the best excuse this NYT bestselling author came up with was “my dog died”? Over 300 million books in print and that was it?
“They want to be an author, but see no reason to become a writer first.”
But she did write! Her name on a paycheck to the ghostwriter. Doesn’t that count? :) ::blinks:: No?
OMG! I’ve had one cup of coffee and read 200+ comments at “Making Light” (which was very sad) and the comments here.
Nora said it best.
The difference, to me, is there are those who want to write and be published, and there are those who want to be published. The second group doesn’t care how, doesn’t want to do the work, pay the dues, hone the craft. All they want is their name on a book.
I don’t understand the apologies that are just more finger pointing.
It’s the old “I wouldn’t have done it if you hadn’t…” syndrome and it’s deadly.
I can’t believe I missed all this! This is what happens when you spend time doing goody-two-shoes work.
Ann, I’m with you! I simply spent time making other people richer than Midas and missed this whole thing. Bam and Annie, I have a question for both of you: why didn’t you lure me out of transaction hell to take a look at this and enjoy myself for once?
Lastly, I am speechless. And enjoying every fucking word.
From: Making Light
Do you read that, Jane? You’re as bad as invisible Mr. Hill, the scammer.
Hey, CHERYL, it’s called TAKING RESPONSIBILITY.
Why would they re-write a book they plagiarized? that makes… zero sense. Wouldn’t they just be… paraphrasing?
It seems to me that Jane may have solved the mystery, much commented on over at http://absolutewrite.com, of why Christopher Hill went to so much trouble for such apparently small sums of money. Typically authors were charged less than £100 to allegedly have their manuscripts touted around publishers. It occurs to me that Christopher Hill may simply have sold those manuscripts to other ‘authors’ in search of ghostwriters, thus greatly increasing the profitability of the scam.
I am happy to report I am hive and boil free. I didn’t realize that exposing a scam made me a scammer too. I think the likelihood of the “serious damage” being my fault is about the same of the boils and hives showing up.
As apologies go, it’s pretty poor. Perhaps she needs to read the link about how well Janet Dailey apologized to Nora Roberts (read: not at all).
Now they’re threatening to hurt puppies? Oy vey!
Not the puppies !!!
I think this link kinda sums up the situation about writing something and putting it in a place where oyu could get into trouble :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tmfzg8musA
Things are getting more interesting: her publisher is apparently incapable of telling the difference between your blog and Making Light, and is now threatening you with lawsuits and “wiccan” tenfold retaliation there. It doesn’t bode well for Lee or Pillsbury.
============================
O_o Wtf? There is no Wiccan tenfold retaliation. And somehow I dont’ see Maat or the other Gods of Justice being this interested.
Former Wiccan(for those Wiccans who care, solitare ecclectic)
:P
Head Keyboard.
I would like to say for the record, not all Pagans or Wiccans are this ummm well insane.
My mind is well and truly boggled.
However, I shared it with other Pagans, and Wiccans so, hahaha, I won’t be the only one. I do believe there will be a snark in the making.
~I would like to say for the record, not all Pagans or Wiccans are this ummm well insane.~
No possible way this person is Wiccan–or as she put it–Wicca. She knows about as much about Wicca as she does about grammar.
This is so sad. Gemmell’s Dark Prince is one of my favorite books. I understand the desire to emulate something that you admire, but to foist it off as your own is awful. It is unfortunate that people can be manipulated this way, but there’s no excuse for it, really. ‘Responsibility’ was often my elementary school’s word of the month, so it’s hard for me to see how people could let this go as it did.
I will never understand why people can’t use the spellchecker…it’s right there in your browser, if you use Firefox.
A few people have mentioned student plagiarism, which IMO presents an interesting contrast to what we’re discussing here. Plagiarism in an academic environment is really a case by case situation (and I’m speaking as someone who has caught it in students numerous times). After all, that’s a learning environment, and while definitely an ethical breach, there are many, many circumstances under which students end up replicating material, from purchasing papers outright to mistaking encyclopedic text for public ‘free for all” factual material to over-enthusiastic paraphrasing. I had a student once who purchased a paper that had itself been plagiarized, and when I presented him with the evidence, he was REALLY surprised. And honestly, I felt bad for the kid because, well, because he was a kid and that one incident really cost him in ways he did not anticipate. When it’s kids, and it’s a learning environment, I see the burden of responsibility differently.
What we’re talking about here, though, is grown-ups who see themselves as professional writers/authors. So to me, the question is how much we should expect of adults who are involved in a career path for the recognition and financial rewards they think it can yield. Should we expect adults who advertise themselves as professional freelance writers to purchase ghostwritten material to sell as their own? Should we expect them to vet any work for hire, especially from KNOWN (even to them) scammers? Should we expect them to remove evidence of copied text from their website? Should we expect them to see how not being the actual writer of a copied ms does not necessarily divest them of responsibility or actions that are intellectual dishonest? In other words, where do we set the bar for self-professed professional authors/writers who seek all the rewards of a writer’s career?
To me, what’s really revealing here is not the purchase of copied material from a scam agent, it’s all the behavior exhibited afterwards. Can you imagine what this situation would have looked like now if Lee and her agent had a) removed the copied material from her website b) left in its stead a sincere apology to readers and to the Gemmell estate, and c) indicated ANY level of responsibility for what happened? IMO Lee would have generated some authentic good will and good publicity for herself AND her work (whatever of it is hers, or at least not copied). More good publicity, likely, than the ms would have made on its own, even if none of it was copied.
And as for the disability issue, there are so many disabled people fighting valiantly for the exact same rights as the otherwise abled, that IMO asking for or offering sympathy based on a disability for something **completely unrelated** is a real insult to those fighting for equal rights and equal access for the disabled. How insulting it must feel to the disabled to be thought of as more likely or capable, somehow, of publishing copied work.
vealing here is not the purchase of copied material from a scam agent, it’s all the behavior exhibited afterwards. Can you imagine what this situation would have looked like now if Lee and her agent had a) removed the copied material from her website b) left in its stead a sincere apology to readers and to the Gemmell estate, and c) indicated ANY level of responsibility for what happened? IMO Lee would have generated some authentic good will and good publicity for herself AND her work (whatever of it is hers, or at least not copied). More good publicity, likely, than the ms would have made on its own, even if none of it was copied.
Robin, I couldn’t have said it better. Her actions and the actions of her ‘agent’ have disgusted me to the core.
Why don’t I read this site a dozen times a day? I see only a couple comments so I feel safe enough to go to sleep. Then, like a good girl, I go to the chiropractor’s before doing my interweb rounds, and this happens!
I’m glad I found out about the Christopher Hill angle before posting, though. I would likely have been very nasty. But whatever sympathy I might have had was washed away in her tidal wave of lies and desperate pandering.
So, I gird myself in the (very heavy, when you want to rave) mantle of Harm None, and say only this:
“Mind the Threefold Law ye should, three times bad an’ three times good”
Yep, ‘nother Pagan.
~She knows about as much about Wicca as she does about grammar.~
I’m not sure if you know this, but she’s behind the LOLcats. Sadly she still doesn’t know why everyone laughs.
Oh my GOD you guys:
Mary “Lanaia Lee” Kellis just got written up today in her local paper promoting “On Atlantis”.
Not mentioning it was ghostwritten, instead playing up her disabilities and claiming it was all her own work.
Cheryl claimed to have read the book SIX TIMES.
”
“Of Atlantis” is based on a short story called “Identity,” which Mary wrote four years ago under the pen name Lanaia Lee. Lanaia comes from a character on the “Stargate” science fiction series and Lee is her mother’s maiden name.”
The date on that article is August 12th, Shawn. It’s October. ;)
Okay, so I got the month wrong.
But still… Cheryl said she READ THE BOOK SIX TIMES.
How could she not catch any of this?
Uh-oh. See, if it had been kept on the Globo-web, maybe it would have died a quick death and all you would have had after you is a mob of angry fangirl/boy nerds… but when you bring out IRL…
That’s just asking for the Gremmell estate to find you. “I’m over here! I copied you work and claimed it for myself and look at me! Look at me! SUE ME! PAY ATTENTION TO ME!”
Why is this whole thing starting to remind me of an Agatha Christie novel? If that Hill character winds up dead I’ve got dibs on writing the story!
Nope. You see that woman… is really a man baby.
Mary IS hill. It is the greatest double cross evah. Good damn thing nuthing gets past writer beware!
Has @ 172: Just wanted to say that you rock. Same to you, Robin @ 215.
I’d like to say that I find myself boggled both by the “author” and her scammer wanna-be agent, but I’ve dealt with a handful of plagiarists (in fandom, out of fandom, and of my own work) and have seen excuses ranging from the dead (fill in blank), to a brother going to jail, to a photographic memory, to writing down someone else’s work and then mistaking it as their own–and so far, the only thing out of the ordinary here is the threat of curses.
Very few will do what this case didn’t: fess up, stop claiming all of the plagiarized material as their own work, and apologize directly to the party or parties who actually created the work to begin with.
The plagiarized material’s continued presence on her page doesn’t give me any good feelings. She’s got the time to ban people from her yellbox, but not to remove any links and make an official, permanent statement?
[...] Top 10 Tips for PlagiaristsA cautionary tale. [...]
The only thing I think people haven’t asked, is if Lee had ever read any of Gemmel’s books. I know I’ve never heard of him (and I’ve read half the scifi/fantasy wall at Borders), so she might not have realized that the work was plagerized.
I AM NOT EXCUSING HER IDIOTNESS AFTERWARDS, just commenting.
Missy – If you contract for a “work for hire” and that person sells you a product that is plagiarized and you claim it for your own, then you are responsible for plagiarism. In the copyright law, there is no need to prove intent. It is enough that you did it.
The problem with Ms. Lee, as I see it, is the dishonesty that stems from the entire course of actions. If you google her name and the book, you’ll see a widespread posting of her work and advertisements for freelance work done by her. I’m not sure whether she was going to have the freelance work ghostwritten but she was selling her freelance work on the basis of her “Of Atlantis” excerpt which was ghostwritten.
If she was selling her writing on the basis of the “Of Atlantis” excerpt but was going to write it herself then the excerpt was misleading.
The article, however, in the Burlington paper was really disturbing because it is supposedly this inspirational story of how she overcame all these terrible tragedies to write a book when, in fact, she didn’t write the book.
I understand that, I just wondered if she’d ever heard of David Gemmel. Just a thought. I’m definitely not excusing her of anything, but many of the comments sounded like she should have known. I was simply a thought- not an excuse for her. Nothing more.
[...] If you’re looking to join the ranks of Kaavya Viswanathan and now Lanaia Lee, some tips: http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2007/10/11/top-10-tips-for-plagairists/ [...]
[...] We could talk of roads to hell and all that but really that seems to be a topic well in hand. [...]
Why won’t this woman just SHUT UP?
From Making Light:
Hey, I thought what we’re doing is libel!
I love how she just off-handedly says, “Sorry he passed away, it is a great loss”.
She is a victim of this persons work, both of us have never heard of him or read his books
I assume “this person” refers to Mr. Hill, but the “him” and “his” refer to Gemmell (how weird is it that she doesn’t refer to the ONE PERSON THEY METAPHORICALLY ASS-FUCKED WITHOUT LUBE by name– is it because it makes it all too real?), but the strange way she phrases it makes it sound like Lanaia was victimized (there’s that word again) by Gemmell… which makes this situation SO MUCH MORE FUCKED UP.
Here’s what Cheryl just e-mailed me.
“I am her agent and close friend. She is a victim of this persons work, both of us never heard of him or read his books, sorry he passed away, it is a great loss. When it was brought to our attention, I immedicately investigated the situation and found the written e-mail proof this Mr. Hill, the ex-ghost writer did copy his first chaper from Dark Prince as her prologue for Of Atlantis. We have apologized many times, we have placed the book on hold until we re-write it so this will end and no one is hurt, but its too late. Before anyone could give us a chance to solve this, everyone is having a field day like kids, calling names and labeling the wrong
person, this is wrong. I have used a ghost writer with some of my work and thankfully I didn’t have this happen, but unfortunately she did. We know we are innocent and will hold onto that. If everyone wishes to continue to slander, she may sue. My attorney has copies of everything and he’ll decide what needs to be done. This horse issue is dead and I’m tired of repeating myself, the subject is closed, move on.”
So, do you hear that? She has copies of email! And her attorney might decide to do something! And we’re slandering her! And the book is on hold, what more do we want?
Also, she’s written for vanity presses and used a ghostwriter too! I don’t know if that’s just sad, or stupid.
If you contract for a “work for hire” and that person sells you a product that is plagiarized and you claim it for your own, then you are responsible for plagiarism. In the copyright law, there is no need to prove intent. It is enough that you did it.
The problem with Ms. Lee, as I see it, is the dishonesty that stems from the entire course of actions. If you google her name and the book, you’ll see a widespread posting of her work and advertisements for freelance work done by her. I’m not sure whether she was going to have the freelance work ghostwritten but she was selling her freelance work on the basis of her “Of Atlantis” excerpt which was ghostwritten.
If she was selling her writing on the basis of the “Of Atlantis” excerpt but was going to write it herself then the excerpt was misleading.
Yeah, it’s the disconnects that are frustrating. Lee seems to think that since she bought copied material from Hill as work for hire that she’s an innocent victim. BUT, while she may have a claim against Hill for how he scammed her, she isn’t free from scrutiny for oh so many other things, including representing the work as hers to begin with. Then, as I said before, there’s everything that came after, including the refusal to take down the copied excerpt and the threats to sue, which REALLY piss me off because legally protected rights to free speech can be chilled.
And despite the claims that “everyone” hires ghostwriters, I still find that whole aspect of this situation really troubling, for so many reasons. Again, if someone represents themselves as a professional writer, seeking commercial reward, what standard should we expect from them, both in the work they represent as their own (and which is purchased from someone they KNEW was dishonest) and in their general professional persona? Even if I buy everything about how Lee was scammed by Hill, there is still SO MUCH MORE that is disturbing to me about HER behavior, as well as her agent’s. To me, anyway, the Hill aspect is merely ONE SMALL part of a whole sordid situation.
maybe she thinks it IS hers because she paid for it…
screwed up logic, but maybe she IS all screwed up because of the stroke, so it makes sense to her.
I know lots and lots of writers. No one I know personally uses a ghost. I’m sure there are writers who do. But to have this “agent” who so obviously doesn’t know dick about publishing, Wicca, legal issues or basic grammar claim everyone uses them is too dumbass to be insulting.
Both these women continue to insult Gemmell and his family by refusing to issue a straight-out apology and remove the stolen material from the website.
I don’t see this Mary/Laniana as any kind of victim. She lied. Again and again. Whether or not she knew the material Hill gave her was stolen or not, she lied about it–and used the platform for her own gain that this was a work of her heart, one she’d bleed for, how she’d overcome such adversity to write it. When in fact, all she did, apparently, was pay a con artist for the material.
No sympathy from me.
Meanwhile this CP threatens, insults, whines, makes excuses and blames everyone else. It’s really kind of amazing that there are people that oblivious or that calcified.
I know lots and lots of writers. No one I know personally uses a ghost. I’m sure there are writers who do.
On Writer Beware, Victoria Strauss said it’s widespread, too, but when I asked her how common she didn’t respond to my question. It frustrates me to no end to hear how “common” something is with NO exemplification.
maybe she thinks it IS hers because she paid for it…
screwed up logic, but maybe she IS all screwed up because of the stroke, so it makes sense to her.
Well, she’s definitely the owner of a work for hire, but no one but the legal owner of the copyrighted material is the *true* owner. When you pay for a work for hire, though, you pay to represent the material as your own. Of course, if you got that material from a known scammer, would you WANT to claim it as your own without vetting it?
So much of this is screwed up, but I sincerely doubt it has to do with strokes, or with any other physical impairment. And if it does, then no one else — especially one acting as an agent — should be facilitating or supporting the questionable conduct, IMO.
Another GEM of an interview:
“BW: So where do you draw your ideas for writing from? And how do you keep going until it’s finished?
LL: My ideas are strictly my own beliefs and experiences, I was an only child and that makes one have a very creative imagination. I just love to create, it is kind of like when Michelangelo created the Sistine Chapel, and when he was done, I’m sure he took time to admire what he had created. To me writing is kind of the same thing.”
OMG, you guys. WTF. BBQ.
I read the article Jules Jones linked to, and it’s fascinating. I definitely recommend reading it.
In this case, there’s incompetence and the accompanying unawareness of it that the article discusses. But I also sense an unwillingness to become aware of it. The infringing material has yet to be removed from the “author’s” web site, and she and her “agent” continue to issue non-apologies, threats, and bullshit excuses.
For some people, it’s all about the ego and being able to say they’re published. If that’s where a person’s priorities lie, I guess it’s damned inconvenient that being a writer actually involves, uhh, writing.
Well anyone ever been in a room with both ‘writer’, agent, con ‘hill’ all at the same time? Oh what the hell throw in the hubby and the dog too. Or have the ‘writer’ and ‘agent’/BFF posted anywhere in the same forum?
Emails? anyone anyone…
Ten will get you twenty there aren’t that many ‘different’ people involved. All we need now is news of a hospital stay and/or an orbit so the hubby can come tell us all (five mins after the fact) his wife is gone and it all those MEANGRRL blogger’s fault.
me think we need more popcorn
But I also sense an unwillingness to become aware of it.
I also think that some folks truly believe that if they have an idea, it doesn’t matter WHO writes it up, that the idea alone makes a written work authored by that person. And to some degree, I think our culture really devalues the written word and the unique voices different writers have — that you can get two people to tell the “same” story and have two completely different works, for example. So to some degree I understand how giving someone an outline and paying them to write it up might actually *seem* like writing a work oneself, even though IMO it’s not. Here, though, we’re well beyond that. But in general, I think as a society we place far to little value on the craft of writing as, well, writing.
I call Bullshit! IRL, I have experience in speaking to stroke survivors. I explained in language at an appropriate level to Mary/Lanaia, that she really, really needed to take down the David Gemmel prologue. I know she and her little friend, Cheryl, are hanging out at Making Light. She replied that her webmistress (which, miraculously she can now spell) is preparing a NEW prologue. She is leaving the plagiarized one up until the new one can be substituted. If she is an innocent victim of a scam, I will eat something very unappetizing. And as for Cheryl, scum of the earth would avoid her, I fear.
I hope that Jane is still free of hives and nightmares.
Ha-ha, Sybil watches fanwankdom!
There was a plagiarism scandal late 80’s/early 90’s where a rather well known romance author was caught copying part of a book by (I think) Jan Wescott. The author (now deceased) claimed that she had hired a “researcher” who became a ghost writer and it was this ghost who had written the offending material. Given that it was material from a book that was very popular though oop, I thought that was a bit of BS then and I think so in this new case.
i find it interesting that she contacted strauss in june to tell about how she was yet another victim of hill and then was interviewed by the local paper most likely in August and didn’t mention the hill aspect of her story.
I think we’ve got an attention-seeker…she’s the hero of every story and the victim of every crime.
i feel kind of sorry for -the reporter — i think her name is charity apple — if it gets out professionally that she was so completely taken in by mary she’ll have trouble every leaving burlington. most hiring editors will be convinced that she should have immediately seen there was a flavor of a hoax in the woman’s story.
on the other hand mary and cheryl would be great guests on maury or jerry if they ever decide to do a story on how vanity presses take advantage of poor crippled folk who just want to tell their story to benefit mankind
ouch: ever leaving burlington
if there was ever a story that showed the reason to spellchek and proof before sending it’s this one
Quote and cite! Quote and cite! This is the rule in academia at least.
Quoting from Making Light:
[blockquote]
#368 ::: Lanaia ::: (view all by) ::: October 13, 2007, 09:06 PM:
Pathetic? I fired Christopher before I finshed the book. He was there for the prologue and chapters 1-4, the rest IS mine. [/blockquote]
So it’s more than the first chapter? Does anyone know how long the book is?
I’m glad to see that the spelling has gotten better.
Btw, what happened to all the HTML tags (sorry about my various quote and blockquote brackets out there)? And the avatars?
For more on Christopher Hill, there is a long thread on his agency that started in May of 2005:
http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12420
Writer Beware has been collecting information on him since before that time. There was a series of blog posts about him starting from fall of 2006:
http://accrispin.blogspot.com/2006/09/victoria-strauss-hill-hill-literary.html
Was he actually involved in this scam? I wouldn’t be surprised because he sounds like the kind of scumbag who would pull this stunt. That doesn’t excuse anything Cheryl Pillsbury did, and it doesn’t excuse the coverups
and excuses of Lanaia Lee. But he is a real scammer and has been known to Writer Beware and other similar organizations for years. The problem is that many writers are so desperate that when an agent or publisher is interested in their work, they don’t bother so much as Googling that agent’s or publisher’s name. Some authors learn from their mistakes, and others never seem to learn.
That doesn’t excuse anything Cheryl Pillsbury did, and it doesn’t excuse the coverups
and excuses of Lanaia Lee.
That’s the part I don’t think they get. Lee recently repeated her line “I did nothing wrong” on Making Light, so clearly she sees no responsibility for herself in any of this. My own impression is that she is so fixed on the Hill issue that she can only see herself only as victim, regardless of what she has done otherwise. I can take at face value that Hill scammed her, but that still leaves a bad taste in my mouth in regard to how Lee and Pillsbury have handled things. And I still find completely unjustifiable the idea that the copied excerpt was not removed immediately from Lee’s site.
Leaving the excerpt makes no sense — neither does insisting that they will rewrite it. By this point, the book is dead, Even PublishAmerica wouldn’t want to publish this book. This is probably the same desperation that drives other vanity press authors to attack people who expose their publishers as a scam. I can understand it to a point, I guess, but that doesn’t mean I have to put up with it.
As far as published writers using ghostwriters, I thought up some names for a post somewhere else. The recent Robert Ludlum novels are ghostwritten as he died several years ago. Then you have some of those books written by a well known author and a “coauthor” — in many cases, “coauthor” is another word for “ghostwriter.” ;-) Ghostwriting is also rampant in men’s adventure series, many of the Western series, and many children’s and young adult series. There are many cases we will never know about because the writers who do the actual work are pledged to secrecy.
Also, sometimes you get a ghostwriting scandal such as the case of late romance author Sylvie Sommerfield. IIRC in the 1980s, one of her books turned out to be plagiarized from a Jan Wescott novel. She said that she had hired a ghostwriter because she couldn’t complete the books for her contract on time, and the ghostwriter had turned in a plagiarized manuscript. Some people were suspicious of her claims and wondered if Sommerfield had actually done the plagiarizing herself. I suppose there’s no way to know.
This is probably the same desperation that drives other vanity press authors to attack people who expose their publishers as a scam. I can understand it to a point, I guess, but that doesn’t mean I have to put up with it.
And I think things went beyond that quickly. Had Lee taken ANY responsibility for what happened, I think the tide would have turned and stayed more in her favor. She thinks her name has been sullied by Hill, but I don’t think she realizes that she and Pillsbury have done far more damage to it than he ever did or could do yet, IMO.
As for the ghostwriting thing, I learned about book packagers when the Viswanathan scandal hit, and while I’m not a fan, all you have to do is look at the copyright of those packaged books to see the corporate ownership, so IMO it’s not so bad. And god knows I expect all those celebrity books to be ghostwritten. As for dead authors and their name franchise, well, again, it’s not to my personal taste, but it doesn’t seem inherently dishonest because the death of an author is public knowledge, even if not all readers know that.
I think the reason a case like Lee’s bothers me is that it seems deceptive to the reader, even if it’s not intended to be, especially because you have this actual person out there claiming the work as her own “work of the heart” or whatever. And honestly, it weirds me out on a totally visceral level that unknown authors are hiring ghosts. At some level the ghost thing seems the ultimate divorcing of the author from the book, but not, IMO, in a good way. Not in the way of ‘let’s focus on the quality of the work,’ but rather of ‘writing is a mere formality, a service’ rather than an art or even a craft.
Anne’s examples, celebrity, franchise, etc. are clearly understood as ghostwritten, but hardly justify a sweeping statement that many authors use ghost writers.
Franchises like The Hardy Boys or Nancy Drew are a different kettle than ghosting, imo. There is no Carolyn Keene or Franklin W. Dixon. The books were always work for hire. Andrews and Ludlum–dead–and again now a franchise.
It’s a different matter for Popular Author or Desperate Newbie to hire a ghost then publish the work under his or her own name. Yes, it’s their property if they paid for it, but it’s not their work.
The first examples don’t play into, imo, the statement that writers hire ghosts all the time.
I knew Sylvie a little–and had honestly forgotten about the plagiarism until it was brought up here. Bad stuff. Initially, if memory serves, she blamed her assistant/researcher for passing on the material to her. Then claimed she’d hired a ghost due to contractural deadlines and stress.
Stress is routinely one of the excuses, as is the hapless assistant, when plagiarism is discovered.
I could have said all that quicker, like Bernita.
Why should you, Nora?
You’re always a pleasure to read.
I can’t imagine going through the sweat and toil of writing fiction as another author’s ghost writer. Non-fiction doesn’t often require an emotional investment on the part of the writer; you can knock off an instruction manual for a monitor or even an ‘autobiography’ of a celebrity without putting yourself into it, and in fact it’s probably better if you don’t.
But it seems to me that fiction of any kind requires an emotional commitment to the work. Yes, ghosting happens, and I can see why an established writer with a reputation to uphold would consider hiring a ghost writer during a dry spell, but I don’t know if I could do it. Then again, if the wolf is at the door, better to work than to starve.
[...] http://dearauthor.com/wordpress/2007/10/11/top-10-tips-for-plagairists/ [...]
Apparently Lee can add content to her site but not delete it.
While I am boil and hive free still, I did get a bad cold over the weekend making my voice froggy. I think frogs are part of curses aren’t they? Do I need a Wiccan intervention?
Latest from the yellbox on Lanaia’s website:
[quote] Lanaia: I AM INNOCENT, I will have my attorney contact Jane and Jim, you know slander is a bad thing. I am even going to take a polygraph,I WI LL sue [/quote]So the old link is still active? And her rewrite is giving me headache.
I guess she thinks her proof is strong enough to absolve her from all responsibility. I’m not so sure about that… Plus, it looks like the issue involves more than the prologue.
This whole situation is so bizarre and it keeps getting weirder and weirder.
I don’t know much about Wiccan interventions, but I just got rid of my cold, so I’d say it’s the season.
I am supposed to hear from the attorneys for Lee and Pillsbury today. I’ll keep you all apprised.
I guess suit papers are imminent. I just received an email from Lee (and have since told her about 20 emails ago that I would feel free to post anything publicly if she continues to email me )
That led to extremely unimpressive Google search results, but since there’s only an approximately .05% chance she spelled that correctly, who knows?
I wonder if he was recommended by her agent.
Oh, Shannon, that was my thought. I checked with the Texas State Bar and there is no licensed attorney with that name. I asked her for his phone number and state bar number.
I’m in good company though:
Anthony Biller of Cary, NC?
http://www.coatsandbennett.com/anthonybiller.html
Although if anyone’s guilty of “deformation of character,” it’s Lanaia herself, and David Gemmell who should due the suing.
I couldn’t find him either, and I looked in the NC bar too (since that’s where she lives). I guess she thinks she has legal standing. Wondering about the deformation of character thing though…
I would actually hope it was Mr. Billers because he would at least be able to advise Ms. Lee on her rights, and lack thereof.
For some reason I thought she was located in Texas. Where is Cheryl Pillsbury located because apparently they have the same attorney.
Cheryl is in Massachusetts, I believe.
I think she’s in in Massachusetts, Greater Boston area, according to this
Yup, it’s Boston, according to the contact info on her agency’s website
And Biller’s profile from Martindale-Hubbell
Boo, too many links in my last post. According to Cheryl’s agency website, she’s in Boston: http://www.agpress.50megs.com/contact.html
*snort*
Jane, Jane, Jane — what have you done? Led so many people down the path of deformation. No wonder you’re getting sick and developing boils.
Hopefully, she’ll listen to whatever her attorney has to say. Like, “stop e-mailing and posting about this online, and digging a deeper hole.”
Holy crap. She changed her main page but the original, plagiarized excerpt is STILL up?! ::headdesk:: Is this day four now?
[...] You can find out more similarities between these two books at the Dear Author Blog where they also post the informative Top 10 Tips for Plagiarists. [...]
Meljean @ 274: Yeah, she can tweak the main page to add in a (still plagiarized) reworked chapter but somehow can’t take the coding out for “Read an excerpt here!”
If I am ever this technologically inept, I want someone to shoot me.
Because they love me so . . .
Timestamp: 3:14 pm CST
If they have lawyers, they’ve clearly not consulted them.
Jane @277 – someone should request that Lee and pillsbury keep quiet and refrain from further words.
It’s just not going to happen is it ? They open their mouths or log onto their pc’s and ooops yet another garbled statement comes out.
Okay, has ANYONE determined the actual “deforming” comments? Last time I checked it was perfectly legal to uncover, post, and/or comment on a factual case of plagiarism/copyright infringement.
The one thing that really makes me mad, though, is all the laying blame for particular health conditions and the absolute refusal to take responsibility for ANY questionable or wrong conduct. Although I imagine it’s quite stressful to disavow any responsibility, to continue to hold out one’s physical condition as a threat makes me feel as if my head is going to ’splode.
On Lania’s Yahoo Group:
“I spent the entire week and nights investigating this issue; it is true
Mr. Hill did purposely copy David Gemmell’s book into hers. We have
placed the book on hold to re-write the prologue, which she did. I
also have an employee that will do a page-by-page comparison of the two
books, which I personally bought. Before we attack and injure the
wrong the person, we should look at who started this first, Mr. Hill
and you should know that Ms. Lee would never do such a thing. We both
never heard of this writer or his books. WE ARE GOING TO SUE!!!! Who
else wants to join the party???”
My response:
and Ms. Pillsbury’s response:
I find it very hard to sympathise with someone who is prepared to lie, threaten and abuse.
I find it very easy to sympathise with someone with a nasty cold…
@281.
Pillsbury’s employee is going to have to read more than Dark Prince, in the Chapter plan included as proof about Hill, there are numerous David Gemmell references, from more than just Dark Prince.
@282
i think it’s clear that this didn’t start with Jane.
I’m just glad to be at the beginning of something because bloggers are so often accused of being parasitic. It’s like I can’t win. ;)
So… Cheryl is essentially saying in her email that the person who says, “Your pants are on fire,” must therefore be the one with the lighter? Ah yes, the “She who smelt it, dealt it,” school of accepting responsibility.
You know, I can see where it would hurt like hell to have a blogger uncover the fact that work you have publicly represented as your own is, in fact, copyrighted to someone else. That must sting and embarrass like a mother. I believe that it really shocked and hurt Lee to find out that the material she paid lots and lots of money for and promoted as her own was Gemmell’s work. Even though she apparently took no steps to vet the material she received from a guy SHE REFERRED TO AS A SCAMMER:
BUT, to not get that a) you have still taken credit for and posted work that is not your own b) that regardless of whether someone you hired sent that work to you and didn’t tell you it was plagiarized, c) that you still represented that work as your own, and d) kept the copied material up on your website for days, and e) admitted no wrongdoing whatsoever despite all this and more is, IMO, unbelievable in the extreme.
And that’s not even addressing the “apology” directed at Gemmell’s estate.
I’m just wondering what one wears to a lawsuit party.
The threats to sue aggravate me because they can chill perfectly legal speech among those who don’t know the law. And they can create an ironic situation in which someone whose legal rights have not been infringed on at all ends up infringing on the rights of others.
What’s starting to bug me is how indistinguishable Lee’s and Pillsbury’s comments are.
Not everybody has so unique an online voice that we know them even when they post anonymously—though there are a few of those—but the share misuse of spelling, punctuation and ALL CAPS emphasis is making me wonder if either Pillsbury or Lee is handling the “communication” for both.
As if this story needed any more conspiracy theories. But honestly, my ear thinks they’re both bad writers in the same bad way.
oh, oh, oh! me me pick me! Is it because they are the same person?
hmmm they sort of look alike too. Maybe it is Patty Duke?
Shannon, you said exactly what I’ve been thinking. There’s been a few times that during some of Pillsbury & Lee’s posts where tenses have slipped that makes me wonder who’s posting under whose name.
The threats to sue are amazing, along with the repeated playing of the health card. It’s shameless manipulation to achieve exactly the effect Robin suggested: to stop all speech by others so they can keep claiming total and utter innocence in this case.
On Friday, I might have had some sympathy for a woman who may have been scammed. Not anymore.
A picnic short of sandwiches, a load short of bricks and a stalled elevator here, apparently.
>>I asked you not to and YOU did, now we have this huge explosion going on and it started with YOU.<<
I have hardly gotten any work done since Thursday, following this saga here and at Making Light. Just when you think it can’t get any more stupid, surprise!
And so it continues:
Just when you think the deepest depths of stupidity have been plumbed.
Perhaps the left sock needs to explain to the right sock the definition of “unjustly”.
One of the most offensive aspects of this particular piece of plagiarism is that David Gemmell was passionate abot his writing, and died with his authorial boots on, as Christopher Priest noted in his obituary in the Guardian:
‘He travelled often, and was visiting Alaska when the first signs of his final illness became apparent. He flew home at once, checked into a private hospital in London and underwent surgery for a quadruple heart bypass. Within two days of the operation he was taking physical exercise, and went home as soon as he was able. He resumed work on his novel, and when he died he was found slumped in front of his computer.’
Compare and contrast…
Sorry, make that ‘about his writing’.
Jane@295 — Good lord, this has just gone beyond funny to the sad and pathetic. You expose her attempt to pass off David Gemmell’s words as her own (and whether she paid for ghostwriting or not, the initial act was to pass the words off as hers), and she thinks she’s going to expose *you*?
Just sad.
Well, actually, no. And given how actively Ms. Lee has been trying to promote Of Atlantis, sooner or later someone would have noticed the plagiarism. If the plagiarism had come out after actual publication, I’m pretty sure the explosion would have been worse. Ms. Lee and Ms. Pillsbury consider the issue of ‘drawing attention to the plagiarism’ as their problem. Ms. Lee states that she is innocent and did not commit the plagiarism itself. But it’s about the copyright of a plagiarized book, as well as the response and remedy (including public behavior).
I don’t think paraphrasing the relevant sequence(s) fixes the issue. And it seems that there may be more plagiarized than just the prologue, since Mr. Hill worked on Chapter 1-4 (according to Ms. Lee) and potentially additional chapters and outlines (according to Ms. Lee’s proof of innocence).
And, as Robin said, even though she’d heard he was disreputable, she chose to work with him and accept his ghostwritten work. Oy.
I’d assume that a newspaper that would print her story would look into any accusations she’d make, and I don’t think the outcome would be quite as straightforward as Ms. Pillsbury anticipates. (Take the Burlington Times example).
With a different response, this whole situation could have turned out differently.
I imagine that newspaper interview is going to be substantially different from what Lanaia currently envisions, particularly if the reporter has Hill’s emails. Or you think it’s a “major state newspaper” in the way that Roval is a “publisher”?
Ms. Lee states that she is innocent and did not commit the plagiarism itself. But it’s about the copyright of a plagiarized book, as well as the response and remedy (including public behavior).
And with copyright infringement, intent isn’t necessary. The person whose name is attached as author of the published plagiarized material is committing the infringement.
Word.
I felt a little bit of sympathy when I heard that she was scammed, but it just can’t hold in the face of the “we’re going to sue you!” and “drag your name through the mud!” assertions, and the complete and utter lack of responsibility she’s taken. If anything, Jane actually did a favor by getting this out there before the book was published — and from everything said, it sounded as if Ms Lee was notified and given a chance to remove the plagiarized material before Jane ever posted. So it didn’t start with Jane’s action, but blew up because of Lee’s and Pillsbury’s inaction (my god, how can it STILL be up?) And I can’t help but think that if Jane hadn’t posted publicly, and if it hadn’t blown up, that book would have gone to the printers despite the evidence of plagiarism and Lee and Pillsbury’s being notified.
Lee desperately needs to get in and actually see her lawyer. When she does, I have a feeling it’s going to get really, really quiet from that end.
Unless, of course, the “lawyer” is as qualified as Cheryl is as an “agent”.
Exactly. And that’s the most baffling part of this for me. I get the sense that Lee is so worried about being thought a bad person for being scammed by Hill that she and Pillsbury have said and done other unsavory things that have done much more to taint public perception of Lee than ANYTHING anyone else has done. Another level of irony here.
…
Okay, so Mary Kellis gets to compare herself to someone in the Salem Witch Trials or someone being burned at the stake, Pilsbury is screaming about lawsuits, and yet on Lanania’s group, she says…
“Yes I did mention lawsuit and I plan to after I discuss the matter further with him.”
and
“Mr. Hill started this, he should get the death penalty for this mess, because he’s done this before with others.”
and
“Before you continue to through stones, remember glass houses.”
Robin said:
Exactly.
It’s extremely exasperating to read through the postings and the repeated assurances of innocence. You feel like you’re banging your head against a wall, and that either they don’t get it or that they don’t want to get it (or that it will all magically go away). It’s useless to try to reason with them. Ms. Lee is just making things for herself and any sympathy I originally had for her has been replaced by annoyance.
This hasn’t gotten a lot of play in this discussion, but I found Lee’s offer of freelance writing services with a link to her website and in the context of her upcoming Of Atlantis release here.
This is my sense as well. And I can see how she might be embarrassed and defensive, and have no kind feelings toward those who brought this out (or those who have been offering her some really solid advice) — and I know hindsight is 20/20 … but as Anji (and others along the way) said above, a different response to all of this would have led to an entirely different outcome. Take down the excerpt, say up front she was scammed, and all of the focus would have been on Hill and (perhaps to a lesser extent) Pillsbury.
But instead of it being a warning for authors who are thinking of paying their agents, going the self-publishing route, or using the services of a ghostwriter, it’s just a big freaking trainwreck into a silo of manure, and all of the parties come out smelling like crap.
Just a tiny bit of discretion and good judgment … but there wasn’t even a tiny bit.
The line between victim and victimizer can be considerably thinner than a pile of plagiarized pages.
Honestly I couldn’t help myself. No more sympathy.
I haven’t gotten any writing done watching this woman shoot herself repeatedly in the a$$.
http://home.maine.rr.com/mattyg/wambulance.jpg
there was sposed to be a picture link there there. Sorry.
[...] so far today: the beginnings of a rubber band ball and watching the plagiarism trainwreck over on Dear Author and Making Light. Perhaps it’s the fact we’re having our first grey [...]
I feel I have a victim of deformation, and must sue someone as I have lost valuable writing time reading about all this insanity. Plus, my head hurts from the stoopid.
Jane, you have 24 hours to reform me, or the puppy I’m holding hostage will get boils. It started with YOU, and don’t YOU forget it.
I second Nora!
hehe
This is the last fricking straw. I’m suing someone now, too, goddammit! J.D. Robb is like crack for me, and by god, if someone forces Nora to slow the writing because of their stoopid, then I’m going to make everyone pay one-fucking-thousandfold! Screw boils! I’m going straight to herpes!
Cover your genitals now, plagiarists and evildoers!
mwahahahaha!
Can I sue for physical injury (sore ribs) due to giggle fits and bleeding eyes due to unintelligible writing?
Sorry, I refuse to be cowed by these baseless threats of stomach injuries due to giggling or loss of valuable writing time due to reading the comments on this thread. Show some restraint people.
Nora, I think you know that you are not reformable. I’ll just say goodbye to the dog here and now. “Dear Dog, I hardly knew ya. Hope those boils aren’t too painful. Best, Jane.”
Not the puppy!!!
I’m glad I’m not the only one suffering from deformation watching this the whole wreckend. I also think I overdosed on popcorn.
Free the puppy!!!
Woo-hoo! Meljean jumps from boils to herpes with one sweep of the black magic wicca. Plus, after that we’re suing everybody for slibelder, which–if you knew anything about the law, you’d know is a buncha big, fat lies on the internets. Or a Ukrainian appetizer.
And if none of this works, I’m sicing my polograph on you.
Logic, reason, sanity, even considerable sympathy from some haven’t worked. Might as well surrender to the wacky.
May I be reformed too? It might help me stop procrastinating.
In return, I’ll
stealsave Nora’s puppy.Poor puppy. It was orphaned and raised by a half coven of Golden Retrievers but dreamed of being a German Shepherd. Now, due to cruel, meangirl Jane it can never live a boil-free life.
Surely, this is evidence of further deformation and will require somebody’s lawyer to file papers about something on someone at some point in the near future. Or never, as the case may be.
At least I am consistently a mean girl.
Stop boiling the puppy or I’ll start polographing. You don’t want that, I’m telling you right now.
And uh, GO CLEVELAND INDIANS!
I backed the puppy to simmer because I gotta watch Heros.
Priorities!
Save the puppy, save the internets!
And uh, GO CLEVELAND INDIANS!
Now I R hyperventilating becuz that Jane lets Indians fans deform us and I M going to SUE you because Red Sox fans are very fragile and U R deforming me. C U in court!
The Red Sox are win. I will take a polograf, so THERE!
(Between the ALCS and you guys, I’m now exhausted.)
God damn it, I take a nap and you are getting sued. I thought this thing more or less died.
Why is nobody suing me? What am I, a poor relative? I want to be sued, damn it.
As Cheryl said on Lanaia’s yahoo group, “Diddo.”
In light of you being sued, you should get a lawyer. Can I suggest this guy?
OMG Belinda. That can’t be true. LOL! Diddo. That’s my new mantra.
Nora: am going to boil a puppy.
Meljean: am going to plague you all with genital warts.
Me: Diddo
Well, I happen to have the best internet lawyer for e-lawsuits:
Leonard J. Crabs’ Legal Barn
He’s really good.
~As Cheryl said on Lanaia’s yahoo group, “Diddo.”~
More mean girls! Everyone makes typos. Obviously, she left out the ‘l’ in the middle. Could happen to anyone.
Back to Heros.
Hmm, weeping sores vs rough bumpage.
I’m pretty sure I’ve got you beat, mean girl. And with warts, you don’t need any ribbing for his pleasure.
Ilona, if you feel left out, I’ll totally sue you. ‘Cuz I’m nice like that.
Meljean: oh good! Can it be for lewd behavior? I totally need the publicity.
Lanaia truly isn’t the smartest person on the web. I don’t buy the whole stroke defense, however. Nora, you are hysterical. Must get back to my paperwork.
Go Rockies! Who cares about Cleveland? Our boys have won something like 20 out of the last 21 games they’ve played. And that after hardly winning any games all year.
I think my brain has been deformed by all this…
I can has puppy?
Where exactly does the “l” go? Dilddo? Didldo? Diddlo? And is the latter a musical instrument akin to the fiddle but played with the penis?
“And is the latter a musical instrument akin to the fiddle but played with the penis?”
You made me spit my drink.
The more I of Lanaia’s messages I read, the more puzzled I am that she wanted to author a book.
Sure thing — only, you have to counter-sue me for something, too. Spread some of that publicity goodwill around. Like, maybe you’ll call your book Magic Demon and I’ll call mine Demon Magic, and then we’ll scream “title stealer!” and slap each other until our clothes fall off and we roll around in oil. The lawsuits will start pouring in, I’m sure.
Jane — diddlo playing is a sacred art in the Temples of Atlantis. The music is so sweet, and if it sounds like something you’ve heard before … well, just tell yourself that Atlantis existed 10,000 years before ancient Greece and the invention of the flute, and it’ll all be okay.
Jackie L, oh, go Rockies too ;-), since I live a few months there a year. But it’s the Cleveland Indians tonight, babee!
Nora, Cheryl’s diddo is very polographic, btw.
Aww, poor puppy.
Janine, why? She is a pathological attention junkie. She parades her disabilities on her blog, she advertised her freelance services on the basis of her “ghostwritten” book, she actively sought out interviews and promoted herself. Somewhere a small part of her is loving it, because any attention, even bad attention, is still attention. She is acting very much like a spoiled child that can’t believe that she is in trouble because she is just too precious but at the same time she loves the spotlight. This is probably the most attention she ever had.
Meljean: We’ll have to get somebody to take pictures. Visual evidence is best.
Sure thing — only, you have to counter-sue me for something, too. Spread some of that publicity goodwill around. Like, maybe you’ll call your book Magic Demon and I’ll call mine Demon Magic, and then we’ll scream “title stealer!” and slap each other until our clothes fall off and we roll around in oil. The lawsuits will start pouring in, I’m sure.
Something will pour in but I doubt it will be lawsuits unless it is to ban your books which, if you think about it, is the perfect publicity stunt. It’s like Craig Davidson’s boxing matches only instead of Mangina being the sideshow act, it is the act complete with the two of you naked and going at it in oil. I’ll sell the pay-per-view rights and we’ll all end up millionaires.
When’s the first match?
I can’t during the week – day job is demanding and in the evenings I sleep to avoid writing. How about the weekend?
Ooh, ooh, ooh!
Can we combine it with a pajama party and all come and watch?
And for some reason, wrestling matches with oil make me think of the wrestling match in Old School.
Oh, I’ve needed the laughs.
Anji: Shall we have a puppy party?
*brings lots of puppies*
**dies of giggles**
Never post during commercials. Replace one middle d with l. Har.
Or enjoy the magical notes of the diddlo.
Need to go check on the puppy.
“Can we combine it with a pajama party and all come and watch?”
Anji: only if you buy our overpriced popcorn and beverages
I want Jane to review the match with Legos. I’ll sell the cheap wine.
Jane, as previously mentioned, I would like to be portrayed as a very skinny tall blonde with big boobies
Ah, man. Weekends aren’t any good for me. Those are the days I take my lead pipe to my ghostwriter’s knees. Bitch doesn’t write fast enough, and Demon Magic is on deadline. God, this pressure is killing me! But no matter how many times I whack, it’s never enough. And how can I be an author if my ghostwriter doesn’t perform? Gah!
If she has big boobies, I want to be short.
Dirty title stealer
They are legos. Everyone will be squat with flat chests and like it. Some of you will have mustaches.
I would like a lego moustache. And a hat.
Meljean,
Try a diddo on the ghostwriter. :)
And YAY, Cleveland Indians! And now, back to ghostwriting my own stuff, tentatively titled Demon’s Magic Demon.
I want to be this one.
After absconding with them from my oldest son’s Lego bucket, I have Jack Sparrow, Will Turner and Han Solo Legos I’d be willing to part with for a substantial stud fee.
The Red Sox are win. I will take a polograf, so THERE!
For the record, I didn’t write that. It was my ghostwriter. *grumbles*
OMG, Meljean! I had no idea there was a WW Lego! I’ve spent years in vain trying to convince my sons she’s a real superhero. I MUST have one!
No no no, forget the diddo, try a diddlo on the ghostwriter
A puppie and pajama party, with popcorn and beverages. All we need is a circus.
Well, Meljean, you could also be Darth Vader or Princess Leia
Ilona, I’ll sue you. You have made me addicted to your work. That’s gotta be ground for something.
And Ilona, you should totally use this as research.
Mean Pagan person
Hey, the Quicktag buttons are back! Good on you, Jane! :)
All true Ilona, but… she can’t write her way out of a paper bag. Can’t spell, can’t put together a decent sentence, can’t communicate calmly or rationally. She’s embarrassing herself so much that even though she doesn’t deserve any sympathy, I still cringe.
[...] minute someone uses the word “slander” in conjunction with something that is written, bells should go off indicating that the accuser has [...]
The latest from Lanaia’s guestbook
{I am being interviewed by a major newspaper, they have all my evidence, the proof will come out then and I WILL post the article. Unlike blogs and things that can be tampered with, my proof is dated, no way it can be tampered with, so we shall see who id truthful. I have nothing to worry about, but others, well they really should stop for a moment and think, as for Of Atlantis, it WILL be published, I worked TOO hard and as for when the new prologue appears, I know it takes like 24 hrs to show up, got complaints contact dcassino@attmail.att.com, my webmistress and I know it was changed Lanaia}
How exactly did she work hard? She got someone else to write it for her, didn’t she?
There’s a lengthy article over on LA Weekly about an extraordinary internet scam practised by a woman using the name Janna St James; see
link
for a picture. Any bells ringing?
posting copies of the prologue everywhere. It is hard work ignoring common sense too. I like how she states that it takes 24 hours for changes to appear. Thats a load. She was able to make changes the day this blew out of the water, remember her deleting the posts on her message board. Victim my arse. She wants attention… *grumble grumble**
You know it will come out. And she’ll be given a few boxes of pre printed books just like my grandpa was. And after the initial family and friends have received their copies the rest will languish unsold in a box in her garage or perhaps she’ll drop copies all over the place hoping people will see and want to buy. Only given her lack of writing finesse who would want to voluntarily [i]buy[/i] firestarter?
Unfortunatly for you Lanaia no one else can tell thanks to the butchery.
yep, yep
Stevie that isn’t that odd. And it would be not at all shocking to learn that is what is going on here to a point. It will continue as long as we shine a camera on it. The hardest part can be making sane people see the insanity. The first thing you do is try and understand it from a sane point of reason. You can’t. CAN’T. can’t.
It is hard as hell to get. Someone that stoopied can’t be this clever. I had started to look yesterday for a newspaper article I was interviewed for for the ‘Death’ of a chick on a message board I moderated. Then decided not to mess with it. The funny is OUT there as Josh’s story seems I really think it happens often.
Right now it is going on maybe here maybe not. But we can guess at least 5, 10, 100000 different places. There is a person creating a life on the net. Many different lives to adore that one. And a few sane people are caught up with it.
The really, really fucked up thing is ‘if’ that is what is playing out here. Just think with a little ‘work’ and effort. “Mary”, “Cheryl” or whoever could really have made a go of it. But really it is too out there right? That could never happen. No one would ever believe that sort of screwed up fiction, it could never sell.
So why not live it instead? Man you gots to lurve the internetz. Best place evah to get your crazy on.
This is fascinating to me. She has been outed big time, yet she still insists on keeping the work up there.
I wonder if she will play the cryptomnesia card? Hey, it worked for Helen Keller.
Sybil that ‘death’ wouldn’t be Janet P Hildreth would it?
Sybil, I accept that there were a lot of very weird people around long before the internet, and that the web has created an environment where weird can flourish.
I suspect, however, that Joss Olsen still can’t really believe that a friend of his could be that naive. I don’t blame him; I would find it almost impossible to believe that a friend of mine could be that naive.
Which is another way of saying ‘things like that don’t happen to people like us’. And when they do, it gets really scary…
Of course it happens to people like us. Stevie you could be Mary/Cheryl/Janet P Hildreth/Evie/JessieJames/whoever for all I know. You could be that person the article is about looking for another 10 seconds.
I would bet mary/she/he/it is already posting in this thread, making fun of herself and ‘creating’ an identy here. Of course it could also be said I am very cynical. Sadly though I must go work. So play on players, cuz it is an amusing train wreck and free to watch ;).
This is the latest from the owner of Long Story Short:
{{Denise Cassino Tuesday, 10/16/07, 7:16 AM
Lanaia Lee, along with her publisher and lawyer, are addressing the situation that revolves around her book, Of Atlantis, and the David Gemmell book. She has posted a statement on her page in the Writers’ Lodge. Until she is proven guilty of something, her page will remain. This is America. Many of you are on a campaign to destroy her. Be aware that you will be hearing from her lawyers. If it is proven that she did indeed purposely plagarize the work, her page will be removed. Until then, she is a member of our Writers’ Lodge.
Web Site: Long Story Short
Email: d.cassino@att.net }}
Surely it’s irrelevant whether Lanaia is guilty or not. The fact remains that David Gemmell’s work should not be on that site under Lanaia’s name.
Sounds to me as though the webmistress went to the same ‘law’ school as Ms Pillsbury
The latest from Long Story Short’s owners, who have missed the point completely.
Denise Cassino Tuesday, 10/16/07, 7:16 AM
Lanaia Lee, along with her publisher and lawyer, are addressing the situation that revolves around her book, Of Atlantis, and the David Gemmell book. She has posted a statement on her page in the Writers’ Lodge. Until she is proven guilty of something, her page will remain. This is America. Many of you are on a campaign to destroy her. Be aware that you will be hearing from her lawyers. If it is proven that she did indeed purposely plagarize the work, her page will be removed. Until then, she is a member of our Writers’ Lodge.
Web Site: Long Story Short
Email: d.cassino@att.net
Holy freaking …
Just amazing. We’re hearing the same line as Pillsbury and LL are putting out: she did nothing wrong, you’re trying to destory her, you’ll hear from the lawyers.
The site goes on my list of places to Not Recommend.
I’ve just emailed Long Story Short twice today to ask them to remove my story from their website. I was just trying to protect myself, as I had a story on their site a long time ago and it’s still findable on a search engine.
I was upset by someone asking on the LSS if all authors on the site are plagiarists and when I learned they had no intention of removing David Gemmell’s extract I sent them a second, firmer email as I didn’t want to be associated with a site that would fail to do the right thing in this case.
I’ve now been accused in an email of trying to destroy the owner of Long Story Short.
Oh. My. God. They’re refusing to take down the excerpt until it’s been proven that it has been plagiarized?
I can’t even… *brain explodes*
The arrogance is astounding. Absolutely astounding.
I simply don’t understand this, either. Why wouldn’t the owner be like you, SallyQ, and distancing themselves from this as fast as possible? What possible incentive could they have to protect Lanaia’s excerpt at all costs, and what thought process goes into, “One of the writers put obviously plagiarized material on my site, but I’m not going to stand by and watch legit writers take me down!”
*still picking up smooshed pieces of my brain*
So we can attribute the new LSS writing course, Writing Under Fire, directly to you?
‘They’re refusing to take down the excerpt until it’s been proven that it has been plagiarized?’
No. They’re refusing to take it down until it’s been proven that is was deliberately plagiarised. And since they deny the intent to plagiarise they must intend to leave it there forever.
Wonder what the lawyers acting for the people who own the copyright will make of that…
Except that if you click on that link, you get a “page not found.” I guess the fire was extinguished.
The final wreckage from this is going to be very sad.
The coo-coo continues. The site owner of what is supposedly a site for writers ignoring plagiarism–and now accusing another writer of trying to destroy her for demanding her own work be removed from said site.
What’s with all this destroying?
We must call out the lawyers immediately, and have them do the destroying instead of all this willy-nilly destroying. Because this is America! We pay lawyers to do that.
**So we can attribute the new LSS writing course, Writing Under Fire, directly to you?**
No that’s nothing to do with me. Maybe someone else who pulled out?
Mine was just one short story, posted years ago.
Or was that a joke and I’ve just let it go straight over my head? (probably. It’s been a long day)
But yes, they seem to be saying that they must have proof it was deliberately plagiarised before they remove it. Which isn’t the point, surely?
Hey, I’m in Britain. We only have solicitors here. And lots of accident injury people. So unless I trip over a manhole outside Lanaia’s house, I’ve got no chance.
Will the Gemmell estate even mess with this? (More importantly, how will we ever get to see a copy of the Cease and Desist order?)
David Gemmell’s estate and his UK publishers are aware of the situation, I’ve been told that David’s agent (who is US based and well versed in plagiarism law) has also been notified and is looking into the situation.
I doubt it Belinda, first they would have to find a real life person to sue. Really though if someone wanted to… they should do a couple of searches. Figure who the server is that hosts the site currently hosting the plagiarized material and email it.
Perhaps best leave it to them then, Anna. I’m sure they’ll know what they’re doing.
But yes, Belinda. It would be nice to see that order, wouldn’t it? ;-)
Sally Q – That’s the feeling on Legend Readers, the David Gemmell forum. Mine too now to be honest, I’m really fed up with the attitude of the people involved. (You all know who I’m referring to.)
It appears there is no logic nor common sense that will appeal to these people and I’ve got better things to do with my time. I’ll find out how this pans out when it gets announced on the Legend Readers forum.
I do have a sneaking suspicion that it will go in favour of the original author though.
Just got an email from the owner of Long Story Short to say that both my story and the David Gemmell extract have now been removed from the site. I’ve checked and that is the case.
I suspect that she might have thought that Lee’s rewrite on her home page was the replacement but I’d sent her the link to Gemmell’s extract and she has deleted it.
Finally some good news!
SallyQ:
Not quite.
“This is America”
Which, the last time I looked, was a signatory to the Berne Convention on Copyright.
Shawn, I had to refresh the page to see that it’s gone.
Shawn Struck, I’m getting “Page not found” at your link. So maybe we’re seeing a glimmer of light at the end of this 400-post tunnel after all.
Well, I’ll be damned. Happily corrected. I apologize. I jumped to an incorrect conclusion, and that was wrong. I’ll make sure to double check next time.
Yes, it’s definitely gone. Denise has said on Lanaia’s guestbook that she didn’t realise there was a link to Gemmell’s piece still on the site.
Sorry, Shawn, I see you know that now.
Yep, looks like it’s gone; notwithstanding the continuing wingeing on the homepage. If anyone deserves sympathy it’s David’s widow, Stella Gemmell, who soldiered on and finished off his final work for the benefit of his fans.
I think Jane deserves a round of applause from us all.
*claps*
Well done, Jane for bringing this to everyone’s attention. I hope the boils clear up ;-)
Go Jane!
I think we’ll close the comments then.