What Authors Should Look for in an E Publisher
By Jane • Sep 2nd, 2007 • Category: Ebooks, Letters of Opinion, Misc • •If you have been paying attention this last week, you will have read some eye brow raising posts from and about epublishers, unfortunately, few of it good. The fact is that because of the low entries to barriers in the e publishing industry (i.e., lack of funding), many epublishing companies are started by individuals with little to no business experience, let alone editing or publishing experience. Authors who find themselves in the unfortunate position of having submitted books to these shaky publishing ships often end up not getting paid and being shamed by “friends” of the publisher into not speaking up.
There appears to be no organization that will step in to protect authors from themselves and unscrupulous or negligent publishers. RWA doesn’t understand epublishing and has no one in a leadership position that does. EPIC appears to be completely absent although its current president, Brenna Lyons, can be seen commenting at the Arizona Republic website disseminating inaccurate legal information about authors’ rights in bankruptcy. E published authors or aspiring epublished authors simply do not make enough money in royalties, for the most part, to be able to afford an agent who could help an author navigate the difficult contractual waters.
This means that the burden rests upon an author to seek out as much information as possible for signing with an epublisher. There are forums for authors to ask questions, such as Absolute Write Forum and the Romance Divas. There are places that exist that post information about prospective epublishers such as Piers Anthony and Emily Veinglory’s EREC site. More recently, Angela James of Samhain has provided some information to the Smart Bitches about epublishing and she has graciously offered her insight to us at Dear Author. I compiled a list of helpful hints with the assistance of Ms. James. It is not meant to be a) legal advice or b) comprehensive. It’s meant to jump start an e author or an aspiring e author in finding the right home for her or his hard work.
***
Basic Research
Before submitting to a house, basic research would include the following:
- Read the publisher's books. If you don’t read a publisher’s books then you cannot know the quality of the product the company is publishing. Someone else's idea of quality and great books might be vastly different from your own. You must make your own determination.
- Put on your reader’s cap and complete a transaction at the publisher’s place of purchase. How smoothly does the process go? Would you go back and make another purchase? Is customer service prompt/friendly in helping with difficulties?
- Look at the catalog of published books. Who is publishing with them? Is it a large assortment of authors or the same four or five. Does the publisher have his or her own books in the catalog and how many? Do you recognize any of the authors?
- Read the “About Us” page. What is the background of the owners? Do they have experience in business, publishing, etc.? Are they publishing their own books? Do they have a physical address and corresponding telephone number? Is the publishing house incorporated or is it simply a sole proprietorship or partnership? If it is not incorporated, who are the true owner(s)?
- Look at the cover art. Browse the website and get a feel for whether you'd buy the books based on the cover art. If you wouldn't, then why another reader?
- Is the website professional looking? Are there a lot of typos? Do they provide readers with covers/blurbs/excerpts for their catalog of books on sale and coming soon? As a reader, I would never have purchased a book at Mardi Gras Publishing because I immediately clicked away at the sound of the mp3 playing and I am not likely to buy a book from a site certified by Playgirl because that tells me nothing about the quality of the books.
- Google the publisher. You can learn a lot from casual blog mentions by both readers and authors.
- Choose a book from the publisher's catalog and Google it. How many places is it available to buy?
- Do not be afraid to ask questions. Talk to authors about their experiences with the publisher. Don't talk to just one, ask a couple. Most authors are happy to help a fellow author out. Things to ask: Does the company pay on time? Are they accessible if there's a problem with royalties/edits/cover art, etc.? Are the company executives professional? Does the company help with promotion and marketing? Are they supportive of authors writing for other publishers? Does the company encourage authors to write to a certain amount of sex, a certain storyline, genre, etc.? Is there a thorough editing process and did the author get a say in the edits or where they presented as a fait accompli? What are the sales numbers like?
There is a term called “queering the deal” used in referring to lawyerly interference in the consumation of deals. Essentially, lawyers are paid to look at the bleakest alternative to a contract and write a way out for their clients. By pointing out negatives and encouraging their clients to look at those negatives, lawyers are sometimes accused of “queering the deal.” Don’t be afraid to “queer the deal” by asking too many questions. Forearmed is forewarned.
- Find out if the company put their books in print (if this is important to you). Do all books go to print or just high sellers? Does the company require you to contribute to the print costs? What kind of print run do they have? If the books are print on demand, are they returnable (there are different types of print on demand so this is an important question because most bookstores will not order or carry books which are not returnable). Go to online bookstores, are the books available there? Got to your local bookstore, do they shelve the books or can they order them? Look at the quality of the print books (do they look like they'll fall apart after one reading? Is the formatting inside the books neat and professional? Do the covers draw your attentionâ€â€in a good way?)
After your research is done and you have submitted your manuscript and are offered a contract, these are things that you should consider:
- Read your contract and understand every term to which you are agreeing. If you don’t understand a term, ask the person offering you the contract what the term means. If that does not satisfy you, hire a lawyer. If a lawyer is too costly, then consider what the worst possible scenario would be to signing a contract without understanding the terms of it. I.e., the relinquishment of your rights to publish your work both now and in the future and then ask yourself what that is worth.
- Find out if the contract is negotiable. All contracts should be negotiable although not all parts of it might be. I.e., a publisher might say that clause B,C, and F are non negotiable and that doesn’t necessarily mean that the epublisher is shady but if the entire contract is non negotiable, beware.
- Clauses to be aware of in the epublishing business.
- a clause that asks you to promise to use your author name only for books written at that publisher
- Clauses that give the publisher rights to your characters
- Option clauses that give the publisher first right of refusal (of one book, of your books for a lifetime, of books in that series). Before you sign an option clause, know what you're getting in return. Option clauses are very dangerous for e-authors to sign because you are not getting an advance. Why give up something if you aren’t getting anything in return?
- Clauses that involve editing. You don't want to give a publisher the right to rewrite your work without approval, but you also don't want to force them into a situation where they have to send you a new copy for approval every time they add a missing period.
- Pay attention to how and when royalties are paid and make sure this is acceptable to you. What recourse do you have if royalties aren't paid in a timely manner?
- What "outs� are given to publisher/author in the contract. What action is considered to be breach and curable v. what action is considered to be breach and thus terminates the contract? (This is sometimes determined by legal interpretation.
- Ask the editor who's offered you the contract to explain their editing process to you. What is their philosophy on edits? Do they look for basic grammar and typos or do they do deep content edits? How many rounds of edits do they do? Is there a separate final line editor/copy editor who will also go over the book and give it some polish?
- How long can the author expect from the time of contract to begin edits, and then to date of publication? This varies for every company and can play a large role in an author's decision. Know the answer before you sign the contract so there are no surprises.
- Ask the editor/publisher about the company's marketing/promotional efforts. What do they contribute to? What things do they do to promote the company and/or specific books. What do they expect from the author?
Jane is a long time romance reader whose passion is, you guessed it, reading. Jane also does not like to talk about herself in the third person, but apparently this is the way that this biography thing works (although in a true biography, someone else would be writing this blurb). Anyway, currently Jane loves urban fantasy authors Patricia Briggs and Ilona Andrews. She's really excited about this year's crop of historicals including Joanna Bourne's The Spymaster's Lady and Sherry Thomas' Private Arrangements and the upcoming Loretta Chase Her Scandalous Ways.
She's looking for a good contemporary author. Email her with a recommendation!
Email this author | All posts by Jane
Excellent job, Jane! Very comprehensive.
The only thing I would add is that asking an e publisher what a clause means would not be the way I would gain understanding. There is a strong likelihood the answer given would be skewed either because the person answering doesn’t fully know, or if the author is dealing with a disreputable party, doesn’t want the author to know. I don’t know how many times I’ve been on loops and see a newbie post a question on a clause’s meaning, then see them come be-bopping back with a “Never mind, my publisher explained it to me. It means this.” only to blink and think, “Uhm, no, it doesn’t.”
I do send out an email. Sometimes what I get back is a rather indignant response of, “So -and so is very nice. I don’t think they would lie to me. I’m going to trust my publisher.” And I shrug, because it’s very easy to see what posts the author will be making to blogland a year or so down the road. And I have very little sympathy when the wailing starts.
Bottom line, it is impossible for a publisher to be an author’s friend in a business deal. No matter how nicely their representatives present themselves, no matter how much they say they care about their authors, when push comes to shove their corporate survival rests on getting as much as they can from an author and on taking advantage of every opportunity presented to enhance their position. That’s why ehouses keep restructuring their contracts . It’s not to loosen the terms and be more fair. No matter spin is put on the explanations for the changes (and they are always nicely presented with a good spin that are anchored usually in at least half truths) in reality those changes are their to tighten the noose
To reiterate this point because it can never be reiterated enough. As authors we are bound to the letter of our contract. It doesn’t matter what anyone intended the contract to mean. When it comes to enforcement, the only thing that matters is what the contract says. Period. No ifs, ands or buts. No allowance for hurt feelings or “I didn’t understand.”
It is useful to ask a publisher to assess the extent of their knowledge or their honesty, but as a way of discovering what a clause means, not reliable and highly risky. When it comes to contracts, the publisher’s goal is to secure terms that insure them as much profit from the author’s work as they can get and to lock up as much future profit from that author as they can get at the lowest possible cost. Authors are trying to secure as much profit from their work and they can get and fighting to keep their future options as open as they can which means at contract time, the publisher is never, ever your friend. That doesn’t mean negotiations have to be nasty, but it does mean that this is the most important time to be educated, confident, and clear on your goals.
When approaching a contract, one should do so with an open mind that says all clauses are negotiable. You will be told by other authors they are not. The house may have a reputation that says they are not. All that means is that many people who tried before were not successful. It does not mean you will not be successful. The important thing to remember is the presentation of a contract is the opening of negotiations, not the end.
Oh heck! The edit option is turned off. Forgive the typos please. I’m only halfway through coffee.
And good grief. I thought that was a joke, certified by playgirl! *blink*
Excellent information.
I assure you that EPIC is not “absent” to its members. To non-members, however, it may seem inactive on this front. Hence the benefits of membership.
Quickie note on the “Playgirl certified site” — I don’t think any publisher sees that as a stamp of legitimacy. It’s just a link exchange. And, looking at the stats for the Coming Together site (which is also Playgirl “certified”), a steady stream of hits come from the Playgirl site (where a reciprocal link is posted). I can’t knock a publisher for doing what it can to increase traffic to its site.
Alessia,
What exactly does EPIC do? I read it’s mission statement when it formed, but from observing, there’s no evidence that there would be any benefit to joining. Not saying there isn’t, just that the organization flies so far under the radar (discounting the Eppies) when it comes to epublishing issues that it’s not even on the radar for the majority of epublished authors as a place to go to for current information or for positions on changes in contracts, the epub environment, etc. so I’m genuinely curious as to what the organization has evolved into and what benefits it has to offer authors.
Determining a new publisher’s legitimacy can be as simple as doing a search for a tax ID at einfinder.com. You can do three searches for free. Any legit publisher that actually plans to PAY people should have a tax ID, even if it is operating as a D/B/A or sole proprietorship.
If you can’t find a tax ID, that’s a HUGE red flag. Is the publisher planning to pay people under her own SSN? Zoinks. At best, it’s a sign that the publisher just hasn’t thought things through and doesn’t know how to run a business — scary! — but it could mean that she doesn’t plan to pay anyone at all.
In my opinion, not being able to find a corporation or LLC is also a warning sign. There’s no way in hell I’d run a publishing company as a sole proprietor.
Sarah,
I think the best way to answer your question is to link you to a recent blog post on the subject:
http://brennalyonsden.blogspot.com/2007/08/what-is-epic.html
Personally & professionally, I get a whole helluva lot more out of the $30 I spend on my EPIC membership than I do on any other writing/publishing-related memberships or subscriptions. As a support group, EPIC is without parallel — and largely without the melodrama that characterizes many other such groups. As a corporation (Yes, EPIC is a business.), it is managed with professionalism and compassion. I’ve never felt that my opinion has fallen into a black hole.
EPIC promotes e-publishing. Bottom line. No other professional organization gives more than lip service to it.
It seems to me that there is an inherent conflict of interest for an organization, particularly a for profit one if that indeed is what EPIC is, to represent both authors and publishers.
Excellent post, and thank you.
One of the things I see time and time again is an author or publisher talking about how the publishing house is a family. My own publisher had some interesting things to say about this recently, but quite apart from the “it’s a *business* relationship” aspect, there’s another issue. You can be best friends forever with your publisher, but if the owner(s) fall under a bus, you’re going to be dealing with their heirs — who may not be people you even know. Or they may get burned out, or simply be offered a buy-out deal they’d be daft to turn down. I get on very well with the owners of Loose Id, but when I’m reading the latest version of the LI contract, I read it on the assumption that one day they’ll all be in the RWA hotel when the gas cylinder compound next door to the hotel blows up…
You know,as comprehensive as that list “seems” I still feel like there are things I missed. I’m sure there are and I hope authors or other publishers will jump in and fill in what I missed! I guess the feeling stems from my belief that an author really must do everything possible to know what they’re getting into, and the feeling that too many authors don’t. I’ve done editor appointments and received a number of submissions where the author knew nothing about us/had never read our books/and had sometimes not even visited our website. Of course, that doesn’t mean they would accept a contract if one was offered, but I still think basic research before subbing to any company is so vital.
On the topic of EPIC, I had an author once reject a contract offer because our contract didn’t follow EPIC’s suggested contract guidelines. Actually, I received a fairly scathing letter from the author. This concerned me, not because the author didn’t want to sign the contract, but because I’m still not sure, to this day, what exactly it is that EPIC recommends that made the author find the entire contract so reprehensible and feel so comfortable writing such a letter, not even trying to negotiate any points of the contract but instead totally burning a bridge with us in such a manner (I don’t mind someone not wanting to sign the contract, it does happen, which is why I recommended above making sure you know what the contract says –very, very, very important– and that you can live with those terms, but the letter I was sent was just plain ugly). Does EPIC offer legal advice? Or have contract/literary attorneys who provide EPIC with the information for their members? It’s been a while but it’s one of those things that continues to puzzle me.
EPIC is an organisation for e-published authors. If you have an e-book published, you can join. Publishers, editors etc can join as associates, but they have no voting rights.
E-publishers are in the process of setting up an organisation for them, to see if they can agree accepted standards etc, but this is definitely an organisation still being worked out. I have high hopes for it.
Angela’s list is pretty comprehensive. What I’ve found really useful when looking at an e-publisher is to ask authors, strictly in confidence, for their opinions. But there is no way you can share that with anyone else, if you want a truly honest response.
The only thing I can think of is that you should continuously monitor your publisher. I was guilty of not doing that at Triskelion. When I joined, it was a small, enthusiastic company but later, it lost its way. I should have got out when it became clear that it was only selling books from its own website, that for me was the first indicator, but I chose to ignore it. I was always treated well, but I put that down to having the good fortune to have Gail Northman as my editor. I edited for Triskelion too, but we ‘ordinary’ non executive editors were well out of the information loop.
So when you’ve signed with a publisher, make sure they are developing in a way you like. When circumstances change, make sure you like them and can go along with them. This is where it pays to have a good “get-out” clause. It’s not always that the changes are nefarious in some way, they might just be that you don’t like the development, that it doesn’t work with the way you see your career development.
What kind of organization?
First, a disclaimer — I’m not affiliated with EPIC in an official capacity. I’m “just” a member, and a relatively new one at that. EPIC’s been around for 10 years. I just joined in early 2006. I’ve still a great deal to learn about the organization, but it’s certainly held my interest.
Jane –
EPIC doesn’t “represent” anyone. It has a membership that includes industry professionals: authors, publishers, cover artists. It provides information and promotes e-publishing.
Angela –
As to your contract question, I can only recommend comparing the contract in question with the model contract posted on the EPIC site at http://www.epicauthors.com/contract.html to try to find any differences.
Since Dear Author is yet again speaking about things they have little knowledge of (in this case EPIC), let me set the record straight.
EPIC’s function, as an organization, has never been to “police” publishers. RWA has tried and failed repeatedly on this mark, because what they look for bears no resemblance to providing proof of a competent and ethical publisher/author relationship. If you want a “wall of shame for publishers,” Piers Anthony and P&E provide them, and EPIC sends authors to them, though notably we do NOT tell people to take them at face value.
What IS EPIC? I believe another poster has already linked to the description of what EPIC is and is not, so I’ll save the bandwidth, but I will say that EPIC is an information source and a networking and support network. It’s painfully obvious that the owners of Dear Author don’t know what EPIC does. If they did, they would know a few things of importance.
One is the fact that members and non-members alike use our resources. It doesn’t surprise me that someone who isn’t in indie/e isn’t aware of those resources. Admittedly, many of our contacts are still made by word of mouth, but EPIC is only 10 years old this year…and the first year+ was more a rag-tag collection of authors on a Yahoogroup and little more, picking up stragglers and becoming more inclusive.
When a call for help comes in, it doesn’t matter who sends it, EPIC members try to help, within the limitations of our scope, but that scope is fairly wide, when it comes to indie/e publishing. We’re a support group, and many of us view all of indie/e as our brothers/sisters in arms. If a member brings a concern to our lists, even if it’s not a personal concern, it goes through the full forum of members and their personal resources. Answers from that forum are usually given the green-light to be passed along to non-members. I can’t recall a single time when it would have helped someone and EPIC members did not freely offer whatever information we had at our disposal.
In answer to Jane’s accusation…. It’s obvious that Jane doesn’t realize the unique make-up of indie/e. You see, in indie/e, the publishers and editors are often authors, in their own rights. In indie/e, the publishers and authors ATTEMPT to work together, by and large, which means their aims are often aligned, which comes across on the lists pretty often. There are some unreasonable authors and some unreasonable publishers, but nothing will change that state of affairs. EPIC is primarily an author organization and always has been. The number of member-publishers we have that are not also authors is miniscule…I believe Dan counted them in at roughly 8 or 9 in a membership of 660+. That is not a huge chunk of the population, certainly not enough to create a conflict of interest for us. Members can tell you that the lists are not skewed either direction, and members are welcome to speak in any capacity…or all capacities that they have in the publishing industry. The more viewpoints we have, the better for us all.
There are other organizations for indie/e publishers specifically. The AIDP, the Association of Independent Digital Publishers, is a new organization but making great strides. Many of the AIDP members are also EPIC members. When EPIC learned that the EPIC publishers plus non-EPIC publishers of AIDP were already working on a code of ethics for publishers, not unlike the AAR for agents, we stepped back and let them have at it. Can’t wait to see what they do with it, and we’ll gladly put our force (what we have) behind a reasonable code of ethics designed by AIDP. It’s a good group to make it.
I might note a special kudos to Angela James. Angela has been listening to what EPIC tells people about researching an e-publisher…or perhaps amassing the same information herself, but that is very close to the information we disseminate. Well done on covering the basics, Angela. There’s a lot missing, of course, but there’s a lot of information to cover.
One thing people might want to do is check out EPIC’s model contract for indie/e and red flag clauses. They are available on the site, to members and non-members.
To Angela… We NEVER suggest an author send a scathing letter. We never suggest more than an author trying to negotiate with the publisher, professionally, and unprofessional author behaviour is highly condemned on the EPIC lists. If there is still a clause that can’t be worked out after negotiation, the author should walk away and nothing more. No one at EPIC tells people to flame publishers. That’s unprofessional. We provide the model contract. People place contract clauses that worry them up on the lists and ask opinions of others, both authors and publishers. I’ve seen people say, “I would negotiate that out.” or “I wouldn’t sign that, as it reads.” or even “That’s not standard.” or “That could be abused by…” I’ve never seen anything worse than that, and that is advice given BY INDIVIDUALS on the EPIC lists…networking and support. The EPIC model contract WAS, in fact, crafted by a committee that included lawyers…one of which was Elise Dee Beraru. That contract is currently included in law texts and when it was re-evaluated last year, the lawyers (outside ones) doing the recheck could find nothing but a few suggested term changes that made no real difference in the contract terms to even suggest.
I both agree and disagree with Sarah. No, do not take the word of the publisher for the legitimacy of a contract clause. Check with the model and red flags…and check with those who have experience with contracts and what is standard in indie/e, what they’ve seen abused and how… All important moves.
At the same time, it is useful to ask a publisher how “he/she/they” interpret certain clauses and have them spelled out more specifically. For instance, much as I abhor first refusal clauses (except for a specific series deal), I’ve found that some publishers read it to mean that the first book they refuse makes that clause null and void and others read it to mean they can refuse any book they wish and still have rights of first refusal of anything else you write in that series. Knowing how the publisher interprets a clause can sway an author’s decision whether or not to sign, indicate possible future problems in the making and clue you in that a clause needs reworded to be specific.
I do not agree that all changes to indie/e contracts are designed to “tighten the noose.” There are times when they make changes to close loopholes that have been exploited by unscrupulous authors, because as much as I hate to say it (being an author, personally), they exist. If the publisher finds itself in a position to be used and abused, it will protect itself. I agree that they must, not only for their protection but also for the protection of other authors with them. I would never deny them that, but I vote on a contract by my willingness or unwillingness to sign that contract.
And please…no offense to Lynne…but I’d add checking their legitimacy via tax ID and other legal means but not make that the end-all of whether or not a company is legitimate. A company can give all legal and outward signs of being a legitimate enterprise and be completely unethical when dealing with authors.
Beyond that, the information EPIC is disseminating is not in error. In fact, there are no less than four lawyers chiming in on what the law says, providing EPIC with information.
The current laws DO create this problem, and there is absolutely nothing the authors could have done, before the fact, to stop this from happening, because initial checks showed the company as knowledgeable and with a solid business plan…and the contract was sound, but the contract is thrown out in the case of bankruptcy. But, I’ll get back to that.
The danger signs came later, when it was too late for many of the authors. By the time most of the authors knew there was a problem and asked for their rights back, it was too late, because of the 180 days the court and trustee have to search back and seize old contracts. That is not in error. That is bankruptcy law.
No contract clause will protect your rights, as this case clearly shows. Any knowledge that anyone gives you to the contrary is wrong. You CAN and SHOULD ask for such things in an indie/e contract as return of rights in a breach, return of rights in the case of bankruptcy and possibly even non-assignability of rights in a bankruptcy…but don’t count on any of them to save you the same grief the Triskelion authors are going through.
The only ways those laws can be changed is if authors and others affected by the current deplorable state of the law stand up and demand the protection of our rights from congressmen and senators. There is nothing in error about that, either.
Epic- I read the post. Thanks for pointing that out.
I’m still pretty unclear, but I gather it’s a business that functions as a social support group for anyone—publisher, author or interested party—in epublishing? Sort of a weight watchers model for epubb interested?
I know you say they do more for epublishing than any other publisher, (though I do feel some of their goals are severely outdated based on the changes in the industry) but nowhere in that post does it say anything EPIC has actually done beyond posting articles. This is where I always get hung up. It’s a business. It says it promotes epublishing. But what does it actually do that is considered support/promoting? I get the benefit to EPIC for members joining. Epic receives cash. What I don’t get is what are the results the clients of this business get for their money? (Whenever I join anything this is my bottom line.)
Oh, and for what it’s worth, since every NY publisher is now in epublishing, I think that qualifies as more than paying lip service.
Are authors maintaining their royalty rates as the big houses go in? No, but there has been very little activism to make this happen, from EPIC or anyone else. Are authors maintaining their better terms with current epublishing houses? No. And again, because there has been no activism on authors’ or organizations’ part to try to raise awareness. So again, if I were still strictly epubbed, I would still be asking myself as I watched the emarket erode, where is EPIC? Do they have a stance on this? Do they have a stance on anything?
Which brings me back to question one: What does this organization actually do?
Correction to Lynne… Industry members now DO have voting rights in EPIC, as of April of this year. As I noted, the non-author industry members make up such a minute portion of the membership and are so closely aligned to authors in the goals of EPIC as an organization, it was ridiculous to exclude them.
To Angela… I provided the information on AIDP in my post. For more information on joining, please contact Liz Burton at zumayabooks @ gmail.com (without spaces).
Brenna
Thank you. I’m not a member of EPIC so I’m glad to hear what I had to say is similar to the recommendations of EPIC. But yes, I did manage to amass the information myself.
How so?
Are authors maintaining their royalty rates as the big houses go in? No, but there has been very little activism to make this happen, from EPIC or anyone else. Are authors maintaining their better terms with current epublishing houses? No. And again, because there has been no activism on authors’ or organizations’ part to try to raise awareness. So again, if I were still strictly epubbed, I would still be asking myself as I watched the emarket erode, where is EPIC? Do they have a stance on this? Do they have a stance on anything?
I didn’t want to get involved in this but I need to ask this. Why would EPIC be expected to do in epublishing what the RWA doesn’t do in romance publishing?
At least EPIC acknowledges my experiences as a published author, regardless of how much money I make or who I’m published with.
And I think the information provided by Dear Author has been very concise and helpful
As an epublished author, I joined EPIC out of the RWA backlash. I have found the information there much more helpful than the RWA site was for me. The only thing RWA had that EPIC doesn’t is a list of “approved” agents (I could be wrong there. I haven’t looked at everything on EPIC’S site)
Frankly, I have yet to see ANY organization that represents writers to publishers. The only thing that seems to keep everything legitimate in the world of publishing is the information that authors receive.
It’s important to have people like Emily Veinglory and her site that keep information about epublishers flowing.
Information, not rumors.
Man, I am SO going to regret saying anything. LOL.
Excellent post. Truly excellent. I hope you will permit me to link from the Erotic Authors Association to it.
It’s also confirmed a lot about what I suspected about EPIC too. “encouraging” people to publish ebooks, “encouraging” people to read ebooks, and holding E-awards. What they are not seems to be a lot more than what they are.
OK.
Encouraging is excellent. I’m all for that. I hope that I do lots of that. I don’t charge $30 for it, though.
And Sarah? I had exactly the same problem recently. Asked a colleague about an epublisher, to see if I could find out how sound they were, in a business sense, and I got back exactly the response in your first comment. “I know the owner personally, she’s hard working and I trust her” and made me feel like a bitch for even asking - even in these very uncertain times.
What does EPIC do? A heck of a lot, actually.
We reach out to readers and authors at conventions, with whatever industry information we can gather and give. We print a ton of trifolds, burn CDs and talk to the people…give panels, etc. We also give interviews. I haven’t seen the October issue of RT Magazine yet, but I understand their article on the industry is very good.
We organize promo for authors and publishers at the same conventions…any one we can convince someone to be our representative at. IOW, they get small amounts of promo to us, and we amass it into EPIC promo packs and send it, on our dime, to events we have people at. We also help pay for tables at conventions for members willing to rep us there.
We include YA-safe and children’s EPPIE and Dream Realm (both awards only for e-books, I might note) information on all information provided to teachers. EPIC sends out press releases to local and national news about the EPPIE and New Voices contests and winners, which includes information on e-books and e-publishing. We include information on past EPPIE winners (of all types) on our free informational CDs.
We reach those teachers, not solely but largely, on the basis of our New Voices contest for middle-school and high-school students. These are the readers and writers of tomorrow, and several winners have said that they’d never heard of e-books until EPIC.
And, we hold the EPPIE and QUASAR awards, which are notably open not only to indie/e and self/subsidy/vanity-published e-books, but also to NY. The contest has 23 categories for books and a little more than half that many for covers. EPIC is, and strives to be, inclusive and not exclusive.
We’re working closely with RT to ATTEMPT to bring indie/e as an industry more into the mainstream of reader attention.
I don’t believe she said that EPIC does more than any other publisher…or if she did, that was a typo. She meant that EPIC does more for indie/e than any other professional organization, I’m sure…basing that on context, and she might be right there, since we ARE focused on indie/e and RWA is not.
As for what constitutes support, our lists are great for that. People get to vent, ask questions, form new groups… We have chapters for particular areas…and may institute them for genres, as well. If you’re unsure, we encourage you to ask. If you’re upset, we encourage you to get a level head and act accordingly. We support. I can’t explain it better than “we offer what you need, within reason…a shoulder to cry on, knowledge when we have it or resources to get it, etc.
Networking at its finest… I happen to think so and am not alone. When Mundania authors discussed how they found Mundania and decided to submit to them, just a few days ago, three respondents said they met Dan and Bob at EPICon (which is one of the most affordable conventions on the market and open to both EPIC members and non-EPIC members…subsidized BY EPIC to make it affordable to the largest possible group we can), teaching classes on the industry, and one (myself) said that I decided to sign to Mundania after seeing the information Dan passed on the EPIC lists then doing my usual examination of them.
EPIC member publishers often put out calls for submissions on their internal lists and EPIC lists ONLY…several weeks before they hit other lists, giving EPIC members a head start. Some EPIC publishers have invited EPIC member authors to skip to the top of the slush pile for a call by noting in the subject line that they are EPIC members. Tell me… Does RWA get you that?
There’s more, but I am on my way out the door and don’t have time for a long response.
As for your idea that the industry is eroding, I disagree. NY came in once before, did it wrong and left. They are coming in this time, doing more right and may make it. I’d LIKE to see them make it.
As for what royalty rates people agree to, I can’t stop them, but I have been assured that some NY authors are making well over the 20% I THOUGHT was cap in NY for e-book royalties, based on the contracts I’ve seen so far. Among them, I have unsubstantiated (IOW, I haven’t seen the contract, but the authors report it) reports that Random House is paying well over that 20%. That’s good news.
NY is new to this. They are learning, I surely hope. I have offered information on the industry to several NY publishers, and I’d LIKE to get them into the loop with us. I’m glad to report that their authors (at least Kensington ones, so far) are entering EPPIE, which means more may follow. I know that some NY names are current EPIC members, like Sylvia Day, who is both in indie/e and NY.
Calls for Submissions are something to watch; does the publisher keep changing its lines? I don’t mean deciding to do a special series or set of anthologies, I mean are they asking for new things every month? Are they suddenly starting an erotic line, an inspirational line, a manga-inspired line, a gothic line, an anything-we-hear-might-possibly-sell line? Are they starting them seemingly on top of each other?
There’s nothing wrong with a publisher branching out, and I’m certainly not implying that starting a new line is in itself a red flag, because it emphatically is NOT.
But a publisher suddenly totally overhauling their requirements or asking for three or four new kinds of books at once sends a dangerous message if you know how to read it: that the publisher isn’t sure what’s selling, that their own current releases aren’t selling, and that they’re desperate to try and find anything, any way to catch on with readers.
I have a particular dislike of twee names for subgenre lines: Hearts for Historicals, Flowers for Inspirational, etc. I think it makes it hard for the casual reader to figure out how to find the books they want. Rather than stay and try, they’ll go somewhere else where they don’t have to play a guessing game. JMO, but it feels unprofessional in general to me.
I was reading all this and thinking just that. The industry needs to police itself. The best way is for the ePublishers to have their own organization to spell out what is acceptable practices and what is not.
It’s not an absolute deterrent to what has happened but anything would help at this point to show there are good solid ePublishers working with the authors to be successful.
Oh, and pay attention to who you see around the internet, and how publisher representatives behave. I saw someone on a forum ask a question about a publisher and get soundly and rudely slapped down by an exec editor (if I recall correctly).
The publisher was new, so there wasn’t a lot to know about them yet, but that certainly told me enough.
Hmm, Sarah, if the material posted doesn’t answer your questions, I’m at a loss as to how to provide more information. Perhaps it would behoove you to let EPIC know what you want it to do. Let the organization know what you’d like to see in an e-publishing advocate. Become a member, even, and vote. I see from your site that you don’t have a problem touting your EPPIE win. (Congratulations on that, BTW. It’s no small accomplishment. There are NYTimes best-selling authors who have entered and not even reached the finals.)
As to NY houses getting into e-publishing — Well, I still see their efforts as kind of “Oh well, why not?” Hedging their bets. I’m sure a part of that is my own cynicism, which is admittedly a factor.
However, I have seen no degradation of either my contract terms or my sales numbers since those bigger publishers dipped their toes in the water. (In fact, I’m selling better than ever — but I don’t believe that’s correlated to the issue at hand. I think it’s simply because I’m damned good at what I do. *grin*) I’ve not looked at the bigger pubs’ contracts because they just don’t interest me. Thus, I can’t speak to their terms.
peace,
Ahem, Jennifer, You did not see me holding RWA up as a standard for anything, right? *G* I’m as confused as to what RWA is for as I am what Epic is for.
And just because I feel like being blunt today, I really am not an advocate of epublishers creating a standardize contract. It makes as much sense to me as an author to get thrilled about that as it would be for me as a consumer to be excited about Saturn’s ludicrous, “No haggle policy”. As a consumer, I always had the option of paying an inflated sticker price without question, so what’s the big deal?
I do think it’s interesting that publishers feel motivated to try to come to a consensus about what to put in a contract, to standardize their side of the business (there is some informal standardizing anyway as whenever one puts something in a contract such as “rights for life” others hop right on board) but I also find it sad that authors aren’t feeling the need to talk about the same issues, to get together to decide what is an acceptable standard and what isn’t. the advantage to an epublisher to having a standardized contract with all other epublishers has many benefits. If I were a publisher, I’d see it as a good move. I’m not a publisher, however. I’m an author and I can see the huge impact of an author trying to negotiate a bad term in a contract facing the unified front of all epublishers to whom they would be submitting that manuscript. (Or at least the majority.)
I’m sorry, I was referring to the bigger picture of the industry trends rather than individual experience.
I’ll qualify. My statement was based on the assumption that the publisher was set up with the benefit of competent legal counsel. Which brings me back to something I mentioned before. Look at the publishers contract. If it doesn’t even protect their rights, that is a huge warning sign. There’s nothing an unscrupulous author can do if the publisher has handled their business competently. That doesn’t work in reverse because the publisher doles out the money, but the publishers contract does at least demonstrate their comprehension of the business and the pitfalls they could face.
Allessia,
Ahem, Jennifer, You did not see me holding RWA up as a standard for anything, right? *G* I’m as confused as to what RWA is for as I am what Epic is for.
LOL. Too true Sarah.
The thing is that organizations can only do so much. The RWA is an organization for romance writers. I thought the idea was to open communication between those with experience in publishing and those who are on their way up. Instead, it seems to be something different.
EPIC does have a page on promotion which was EXTREMELY helpful.
Authors have to begin to talk to each other without snark and bitterness. I’ve been lucky. I had a couple of authors on Romance Divas who took me under their wing and gave me the benefits of their experience.
When I got my first contract, I called one of them and she walked me through it. That kind of generosity is key to epublishing succeeding as a viable alternative to the big publishers.
To me, I agree that we, as authors, have to let our organizations know what we need from them. And we have to keep telling them. Even if they don’t listen at first.
The new organisation is to be called AIDP, and will be independent of EPIC or any other organisation. There’s a private discussion group set up by Liz Burton of Zumaya, so if you’re interested, she’s the one to get in touch with.
This may seem like such a minor thing on the one hand, and Angie mentioned it, but really pay attention to the publisher’s website, the names of their lines, the covers. I know at Triskelion there was a point at which the publisher was creating the covers. It showed. If you don’t want to be associated with a company that has tacky covers, tacky names for “lines”–over-the-top erotic names (my pet peeve), don’t sign. If everything else checks out (contract, author input, etc.), think about how the company presents itself, and whether that’s a good “Fit” for your personality and sensibilities. You want to be proud of your publisher, and not cringe.
I’d like to know a number of other things about EPIC that weren’t mentioned.
1) How much, if anything, is the staff of EPIC paid?
2) If they are paid, how much of their salary comes from dues and other services, and how much comes from commissions with various e-pubs?
3) Who are the judges for the awards? How many are there? Do they change from year to year? What are their qualifications?
4) What criteria are used for determining if an award should be granted? Popularity? Sales? Quality of writing? A combination? None of the above? Having seen many Internet writing awards where everyone who was a nominee–and in one case, every member of a site–was given an award, I think it only fair to ask.
5) Most of the sites that mention the EPPIE awards seem to be EPIC sites, or sites of members. How are the EPPIE awards regarded by e-publishers? By print publishers? Does anyone pay attention to them, professionally?
I ask because so much of what EPIC members have said is a bit vague. EPIC encourages writers, reading e-books and e-publishing. It gives out awards. But while various methods of encouragement have been mentioned–articles, panels, e-Fiestas, EPICcon–there has been very little mention of what people are being encouraged to do. For example, one paragraph says that EPIC doesn’t teach people how to write, but it does encourage writers “to self-edit/hone their craft.” I can’t quite figure out how you encourage someone to hone their craft as a writer without teaching them how to improve their writing.
Perhaps I’m missing something. But a great deal of this isn’t clear to me.
AMEN! Sarah McCarty AMEN!
I ask because so much of what EPIC members have said is a bit vague. EPIC encourages writers, reading e-books and e-publishing. It gives out awards. But while various methods of encouragement have been mentioned–articles, panels, e-Fiestas, EPICcon–there has been very little mention of what people are being encouraged to do. For example, one paragraph says that EPIC doesn’t teach people how to write, but it does encourage writers “to self-edit/hone their craft.? I can’t quite figure out how you encourage someone to hone their craft as a writer without teaching them how to improve their writing.
But articles, panels and workshops DO hone my craft. Being able to discuss plot points with a multi published author or having an editor discuss what THEY red line is invaluable when I’m trying to craft my story.
Perhaps I expect less from writing organizations. I received most of my encouragement, information and concrete help from a writer’s forum, not official organizations that require dues.
To get back to the original topic, to me it’s important to filter the information I get through more experienced eyes, such as Emily Veinglory or Piers Anthony.
As far as what writing organizations are supposed to do, I think the members will decide that, either by participating and speaking up or by “voting with their feet” and leaving the organization.
A personal red flag for me is when a publisher carries books written by the publisher–particularly when there’s a lot of them. It makes me wonder about their motives and priorities for setting up the company, and it makes me wonder about their submissions and editing process. Do all Ms. Publisher’s books get published, even the ones in desperate need of revising?
An even bigger red flag is when I find out that the publisher carries books written by the publisher, but secretly, under a pseudonym. And if she actually presents herself as two different people in promo and in writers’ communities. There may, for all I know, be good reasons to do this. But the lack of transparency makes me uneasy.
I’m interested, however, in other people’s takes on this. It may be my prejudice. :-)
Finally, if a publisher appears on Absolute Write or other writers’ communities and rants about how everyone is against her and she’s a wonderful publisher then I will never submit to that publisher. Representatives from Triskelion and Mardi Gras did this, and I’ve seen it done by other publishers. If you can’t be professional in public, then what on earth do you behave like behind the closed doors of your company?
Although I know RWA has had challenges I know they have fought some big issues. One being when an authors name used to stay witha certain big publisher if the author wrote for another house. They have gone to war on some big issues for writers. I think as of late the epublising thing has gotten them a lot of bad press. There has to be some way to protect authors from the Triskelions with small press without looking down on the publishers who are making good, positive things happen for authors like Samhain and EC. To exclude EC and Samhain from RWA when the money you earn there might well be more than a few of the NYC houses manage to offer for advances, seems unfair. I brought this up at a dinner at RWA. I ended up at dinner with a former RWA President and it was clear that many of the print only authors don’t know a lot of the issues. They need some people involved who know both worlds. But does RWA try to fight for authors. I think yes, but the publishing world is changing and their needs to be some new blood involved who understands all the issues involved.
Finally, if a publisher appears on Absolute Write or other writers’ communities and rants about how everyone is against her and she’s a wonderful publisher then I will never submit to that publisher. Representatives from Triskelion and Mardi Gras did this, and I’ve seen it done by other publishers. If you can’t be professional in public, then what on earth do you behave like behind the closed doors of your company?
Amen, Immi.
They need some people involved who know both worlds. But does RWA try to fight for authors. I think yes, but the publishing world is changing and their needs to be some new blood involved who understands all the issues involved.
I’m afraid it just hasn’t seemed the RWA is very involved in helping an author that is published with an epublisher or a small press. Every move they’ve made SEEMS to be about keeping people out of “the club” rather than protecting writers.
I’m afraid that until the RWA gets an author in there that respects the work in epublishing, information will not be as available to prospective authors as it could be.
I’m just grateful that somebody pulled me into a great bunch of people early on and led me to other sites that had valuable information.
“a pseudonym” how about several? Heh!
There is this one ePublisher, I almost never review but I spend my time trying to figure out all the different names I can group together to one of the owners.
It’s becoming a hobby of mine. Sorta like where’s Waldo.
I definately think that if RWA wants to be all they can be they have to face facts that the industry has changed. If they snub the eworld they are behind the show. All the major publishers are now offering ebooks and trying to gather that part of the market. They are going to have to embrace it to properly serve authors. The ‘club’ thing ultimately hurts authors. Too many of the people involved have not seen the new publishing world. So many wonderful talented authors all came from epublishing now. But like I said, there are also BIG issues that a lot of us newbies didn’t fight that they did fight for us that has paved a better path for us as authors. They don’t see the newer issues but we also need to know they did do some things to protect and help that have had a real impact on the industry. Unfortunately, things like Triskelion only serve to make those old timers more negative about embracing the new world of publishing
So many wonderful talented authors all came from epublishing now. But like I said, there are also BIG issues that a lot of us newbies didn’t fight that they did fight for us that has paved a better path for us as authors. They don’t see the newer issues but we also need to know they did do some things to protect and help that have had a real impact on the industry. Unfortunately, things like Triskelion only serve to make those old timers more negative about embracing the new world of publishing
Let me say that I have tremendous respect for those who stepped in and began the RWA. They did it to help romance writers who were being excluded (albeit indirectly) by writer’s organizations at the time. They have gotten romance authors the respect today that makes the industry one of the strongest.
It is a vicious circle, however. If they don’t step up now to become an active part of the epub or small press world, authors will continue to become involved with questionable businesses.
Personally, I believe that if the RWA posted things like Dear Author just did, there would be fewer authors frequenting these publishers.
All my opinion.
I’d like to second the suggestion about testing out the site’s shopping cart system. Most publishers have “bites” or whatever they want to call their short stories, usually less than three dollars a piece. I suggest putting yourself in the shoes of a not-so-net-savvy potential buyer and find out exactly how smooth (or confusing) their transaction process is.
I haven’t bought from all the publishers out there, but of the ones I have purchased from, there are more than a few that I (someone who’s been online about 15 years now) found confusing and hard to navigate, and others that have a real fly-by-night/didn’t even bother to customize their plug-n-play shopping cart feel.
I’m not asking for bells and whistles and super-slickness, I’m asking for something that doesn’t look like it was put together in Frontpage in four minutes by someone who has no experience in web design.
I’m not at the submitting stage yet, but when I am, I’m not going to be targeting the ones where I’d have to walk my mother through buying my book (um, if she were going to read my erotic romance ;) or where the purchase (and-or browsing process) feel like they were thrown together without any attention to the customer experience.
I get that my job will be to provide a story and a manuscript that is of as high a quality as possible, and to be frank, I expect the interface on the site to at least be usable, if not user friendly. And if I’m frustrated by the experience of trying to find and buy an ebook from a publisher, I’m not submitting to them. YMMV, but this is a biggie for me.
You know I agree about Dear Author posting things to protect us being wonderful. I wonder why we don’t see that happen other places. Amen to that!
Several? Really? That would be funny if it weren’t kind of icky.
And that kind of thing doesn’t help the reputation of epubs.
Okay, adding my two cents…
First of all, I only sub to epublishers I know about (so far, that’s 2) because I don’t go out and actively search for them. I write what I write and if it’s good enough, then the publisher I want to write for will accept it. If it isn’t, I go back and edit or scrap the story altogether and work on something new.
It seems wrong to keep subbing to every publisher out there until you find one desperate enough to accept your work because you think those publishers who rejected you just don’t see your greatness. Wouldn’t your time be better spent writing?
Anyway, I saw the listing on Anothony Pier’s website and my jaw dropped open at the sheer number of outfits out there. I haven’t heard of over 90% of them and I’m surfing the web a lot. So, if I haven’t heard of you, I have to think that a lot of other surfers haven’t either.
I do some very simple things when I evaluate a publisher:
1 - First impressions count. I look at their website and make sure it doesn’t look like something thrown together by a two-year-old. As someone who used to run a web design business, I’m very picky about this. And, honestly, that’s the publisher’s first impression to authors and readers and you don’t get second chance to make a first impression. If the website blinks at me, contains typos, has poor usability, etc., and makes me think, OMG!, in a bad way, I move on. (Triskelion failed this one big time.)
2 - If they pass #1, I check out a couple of their offerings to judge their editors. Yes, their editors; not their authors. I won’t be working with the authors, so I don’t care about them. But if I spot an grammatical or spelling error on every page, I start having reservations.
3 - At this point, I would go to a couple of writer loops and ask for feedback on the publisher. Of course, I take everything I hear with a grain of salt.
Brenna Lyons said: And please…no offense to Lynne…but I’d add checking their legitimacy via tax ID and other legal means but not make that the end-all of whether or not a company is legitimate. A company can give all legal and outward signs of being a legitimate enterprise and be completely unethical when dealing with authors.
I didn’t mean it as the end-all, just a starting point. If they can’t even get the business set up properly so that it can pay people, none of the rest matters. I know several “publishers” in this situation, and yet people still submit work to them. Sometimes authors just don’t know to check on these things, but many people would forge ahead anyway, even knowing that they may never get paid, because that almighty “yes” from someone calling herself a publisher speaks louder than common sense.
I think your other comment to me — the one about EPIC — must’ve been intended for someone else, since I didn’t comment about that.
I think that was meant for me. Having two Lynnes in the discussion can be confusing (not to say unusual!)
not even trying to negotiate any points of the contract but instead totally burning a bridge with us in such a manner
Now that’s just plain stupid of this author. If you don’t like something ask for it to be modified. If a publisher refuses to negotiate any contract points (and I know of a couple who do that) then you’re better off sucking it up and keeping your yap shut or walking away…quietly.
Any publisher worth being with will be willing to negotiate just like the big boys in NYC. Maybe they’ll make the change you want and maybe they won’t. It’s up to the author to decide what they can live with or what’s a deal breaker.
And remember kids: Editor X whom you royally piss off today may just be the head honcho who decides if you get the dream deal you want a couple years down the road.
I am a member of EPIC and strongly support them and appreciate their efforts. I find EPIC a great source of information and support. I don’t think any self-aware person very agrees 100% with an organisations policies, not if they really have their own beliefs and opinions–but it is good to be in a group were e-book writers aren’t a minority and aren’t second class members.
That said I think there is sometimes a lack of appreciation as to how sharply publisher and writer interest are sometimes separate even for those of us with largely profitable and amicable relationships with publishers. There is a need for more author-focussed venues, perhaps even formal groups and guilds. Piers, Preditors and Editors, EREC etc are stop gap efforts to fill a need. So long as epublishers who are willing to can satisfactorally profit as sales levels where authors cannot, there will be problems with exploitation.
p.s. I have a new initiative, the happyometer to try and gauge author satisfaction with epresses in a slightly more sensitive way: erecsite.com/2007/09/happy-omoter.html
Really a great blog post, Jane. And Angie, thank you so much for your insights.
I’m in the process of educating myself about the ins and outs of e-publishing, and this is just terrific!
I don’t think I’ve commented here before, but I’d like to say I’m very glad to see this info posted. If I may suggest something that could be included in the segment regarding clauses: authors, make sure that there is some clause allowing you to terminate the contract for valid cause, e.g., failure of publisher to reveal sales figures; your title removed from the website without proper notice to you; publisher listing your children’s/YA books on same pages as adult material, ect. If such incidents happen, or if the publisher makes him/herself unavailable for contact (MIA) the author should be able to terminate with reasonable notice. So, before signing any contract, please read it carefully and make sure that termination option is there in frank, easily understandable language. To rely on what is perceived as common sense laws to protect us are not always what you may find in the offered contract.
Oh, great list, Angela! We need that in a handbook. The Newbie’s Guide to Getting E-Published
Hey, maybe they could do a Complete Idiots Guide to that effect. ;o)
I’m not getting into the whole EPIC deal, but I can honestly say that EPIC was of little to no use to me for the brief period I was a member. I paid my dues for 1-2 years and I basically consider it a waste of money. I just didn’t get any information thru them that I couldn’t have gotten on my own. They are there to promote e-publishing, and that’s great. I know others swear by EPIC.
Me, I’ll just use that money to buy me some more books. ;o)
And as a side note… being certified by Playgirl, or just using it as link exchange (whatever!) doesn’t really strike me as a big plus in the professionalism column.
Ja(y)nes, thanks for the excellent post.
Brenna, you just exhausted yourself, trying to explain what EPIC is or isn’t, but in all honesty, it still all sounds very fluffy to me.
Your comments were defensive, and prickly as hell, but at the end of the day, there seems to be little or no substance to what you guys actually do, so Sarah McCarty may have been right on the money. EPIC does appear to be little more than a cheerleading squad, a veritable happy-clappy girl’s club, if you would.
You say that there is no conflict of interest in terms of looking after both author and publisher interests, due to the low numbers of publishers who aren’t authors themselves, but that logic seems a bit skewed to me. Surely if more non-author publishers wanted to join, you would let them, wouldn’t you?
It seems to me that the low number of non-author publishers is merely a happy accident, or do you in fact have a maximum number of publishers who you allow to join?
How does this differ from a Yahoo list? Albeit a more organised one, but there seems to be no marked difference in terms of how you function, when compared to a list serve. OK, there is one notable difference. Yahoo lists are free.
Somebody asked earlier what the membership money is spent on, but I have yet to see the answer to this question. Are the staff paid, or do they volunteer their time?
I’m not suggesting for a moment that EPIC doesn’t do a good job, but the question here is very specific in terms of what it actually does to protect its members. If the answer to that is nothing,
but neither does the RWA so why are you picking on us?then this explanation would have probably sufficed:“but I will say that EPIC is an information source and a networking and support network”
In other words, we listen to you, so do the other 660 members, then we empathise, sympathise, and offer you tea and scones, with jam on top to soothe away your troubles.
However you paint it, it still comes across as very airy fairy, and if I was a member, I suspect I’d be asking that old question: What have you done for me lately?
Sarah, just because there is a standardized contract does NOT mean you can’t negotiate. You may have varying degrees of getting changes made, but that’s the case everywhere.
Still, having a solid, basic wording that is proven to protect both author and publisher, as much as the law allows, is a good thing. I’ve refused to sign certain contracts, unless wording that was not standard was struck or amended, because I could see the abuse waiting to happen, and I knew what it should say to protect me. Terri Pray recently lined out an entire section as non-enforceable, and the publisher gave it the nod. Even Dan Reitz of Mundania highly supports reasonable negotiation of contracts…and he’s a publisher, encouraging it, if there is something you really want to see in the contract.
Loopholes are not always caused by poor legal advice. Sometimes, courts interpret a contract differently than the author and/or publisher did, which means contracts change, with the advent of case law.
Jennifer…too true! You do have to tell your organization what you need from them. That’s why the door at EPIC is always open for new ideas.
Not all of them are functional for us, of course. For instance, RWA is focused on unpublished authors. EPIC is not and does not wish to be. Many EPIC members I know have no problems guiding people through, giving advice and information, whether the person asking is published or unpublished (also a plus, since one of the complaints about RWA National is the fact that the writing support network terminates once you’re officially published with them…not the chapter support but support at learning the craft new authors get at National). Still, we want the EPIC organization to focus on published authors and publishing…not on writing basics and how to get published. Which makes it rather ironic that two hours of our 4.5 or 4.75 at RT will be dedicated to getting the contract in indie/e, but that’s what RT wanted us to talk about for that two-hour block, so we agreed.
Tracey… Good questions, and I’m glad to answer them.
1) How much are the people at EPIC paid? Not a thin dime. We’re volunteers, whether we’re talking about the board, those that run the website or even those that run the contests. The only money the hierarchy of EPIC receives are… reimbursement of expenses in association with EPIC work (by this I mean, postage for EPIC shipping, printing, etc. done in the course of doing EPIC work…not much, actually, and we usually don’t use it all) and a discount or waive of the EPICon fees for board members, con chair, EPPIE coordinator and others who have to make this a working convention. We don’t make money. Every year, we put out what we take in…or nearly so.
This year, I wrote and the membership passed, a budget in the red. That’s not a bad sign, actually. We spent several years not spending it all, and I asked permission to spend some of the cushion this year. What does EPIC spend the money that comes in on? Besides the conference work and contests, we spend it on subsidizing the conference, so we keep it affordable. EPIC is not a money-making affair.
2) They aren’t paid, but everything that is reimbursed is directly from EPIC. No one gets money from the publishers. In my time at EPIC, we’ve only had one publisher and one non-author editor on the board…two years each, at treasurer and secretary respectively. The rest are authors, but then again…we only have 8 or 9 non-author editors or publishers in EPIC and a membership of 660+, so that isn’t surprising.
3) The judges for EPPIE are EPIC members and a few invited outside judges, when we’re running thin. They are all published authors and editors or publishers. There are no reader-judges, because EPPIE is a professionally-judged award. Publishers are NOT permitted to be final round judges, a holdover from problems the RITA has encountered. The EPPIE is judged in two rounds. In first round, two judges are given each book. Care is taken to mix up the judges so, as seldom as possible, the same two judges are given books together, avoiding two judges that tend to judge either high or low on a block of books together. There is variance judging, when the judges grossly disagree, and the variance judge and closer of the first two judges are used for placement, in first round. Second round involves the same two judges for all finalists in a category. They read all books and rank them 1-whatever. IF that ranking agrees fairly closely (enough that…worst case…we have a tie for the winners (ranked A, B and B, A) and everything else ranking lower), we have our winners. If it doesn’t there’s a second variance judging to determine a winner. Everything about EPPIE is set up to maximize the chances of a fair judging. How many judges? I’d have to check with Carol on the numbers for last year, but it strikes me that it was about 175 judges last year and just about 615 or 620 entered books. I could be off on that, but I don’t think I am. As for new judges? There are old judges and new every year. Last year, at this time, we had 550 members of EPIC. We have another 20% now. Chances are, we’re going to see a lot of new faces in judging, which is a good thing.
New Voices judges are not only EPIC members. We invite outside teachers, librarians, authors and publishers to judge the kids. A full 25% of our judges for New Voices came from outside EPIC last year.
QUASAR is a voted award. It’s voted on by EPIC members only. Since it’s cover art, judges don’t work as well, we decided. This gives a popular vote. This year, voters get to choose two covers in each category, so we can get a more representative vote on winners.
Our Friend of e-Publishing award is also a voted award, and nominations come from inside EPIC. Even those who have been considered and made the ballot for voting have thanked EPIC for the thought.
4) None of our awards are based on sales or nominations (save Friend, which is nominated). They are judged or, in the case of QUASAR, voted awards. People enter them, and that gets them a read or on the voting ballot for art. They are open, as I noted to both EPIC members and non-EPIC members, and every year, a high number of the winners are not EPIC members. There is nothing about this made to favor the members. AAMOF, one of our EPPIE finalists last year was ASK FOR IT by Sylvia Day (who, I believe, was not a member then…and the book is from Kensington).
Neither does the award favor indie/e. Every year we have finalists or winners that are self/subsidy/vanity-published…or, now that they are entering, in NY.
5) Grinning… Oh, yes, we get attention. The EPPIE gets attention, and not just in indie/e. Betty Hawana wore her EPPIE finalist 2005 pin and her EPPIE winner 2006 pin to RT this year. She had a NY editor request her manuscript…approach her and request it…based on that. Another…I can’t find her post right now, so it’s probably in another account… Another said she was approached by three separate editors at RT, because she had the EPPIE trophy on her table during the signing and at Club RT. I was approached by Hilary Sares at RT 2006, but I make a habit of having a sign on my table that lays out my awards.
Ah…yes, you are missing the core values of EPIC. I see why you’re confused. EPIC, by nature, is a support network. The individuals in EPIC will support you, whatever your need. We have questions of proper grammar and submission etiquette coming though all the time. They get answered. People are honing their craft, and the support to learn it is there. However, it’s not EPIC’s goal to be specifically that. EPIC is not dedicated to teaching someone HOW to write, still we realize that even published authors need to keep honing, and they can certainly do it with us. The dichotomy comes in the fact that EPIC doesn’t “organizationally” set up classes to do this, but the individuals in EPIC are doing it anyway, because that’s part of being a support network.
It seems to me that the low number of non-author publishers is merely a happy accident, or do you in fact have a maximum number of publishers who you allow to join?
I don’t think it’s a happy accident, Karen. I think that the actual number of non-author publishers in general in the epublishing business is low. I think someone in one of their comments above actually commented on how most publishers are also authors.
I don’t feel RWA’s focus is on unpublished writers, nor that its support or networking opportunities end with publication. Many, many workshops geared to published writers, on craft, on the business, on research, are offered at every national conference. Just as many, many are offered for unpublished.
Imogen… Since many indie/e publishers are also authors, it doesn’t upset me to see some books by the publisher in the mix. If it’s a lot of books by the publisher, yes…that is a warning sign. But, if you have 6 books by the publisher in a mix of 400 books by 90 authors, I think you’re on safer ground.
As for the pen name thing, I would have to state that it depends HIGHLY on what the person is writing and how it’s used.
If the publisher writes erotic work under a pseudonym, it is expected that (though the authors will know the publisher is both names…or should know it) the publisher will not make that public knowledge on other forums. Nor should she. It’s not as important for an author in another genre, but an author wishing that opaque wall of protection should not be denied it.
Now, how is it used? This one is a little more complex. If the publisher is simply maintaining a separation of publisher self and author self on lists, there is no problem for me. See above. I don’t begrudge anyone that attempt.
I’ve seen publishers play the name game. That is never allowed, never professional. If you are using the pen name to create a conflict of interest for yourself, it’s unethical. The ethical person would say, “I should tell you that I am also X.” Then again, publishers on the up and up don’t lie about their pen names with authors, so there should be no need for this. But, if it’s never come up, outing yourself to the author is the ethical path.
Lisa…thank you. I love meeting reasonable people within RWA, and there are a lot of you. I have offered to work with ESPAN, but so far, none of the boards have taken EPIC up on the alliance. Strangely enough, I’ve had more luck working with Passionate Ink Chapter within RWA than the one dedicated to indie/e. No idea why that is, but I do enjoy working with people who want to change RWA from the inside. Their chances for success? No idea. Like it or not, there is still a lot of prejudice there. If you want more information on that, talk to Carol MacLeod. She is a font of information on the subject. Still, I know some indie/e authors are hoping to get elected, and I’m all for it, though Carol knew both worlds when she was in the hierarchy, and that didn’t help. Fingers crossed that times have changed enough to let it work this time.
LOL, Teddy! Yes, I know a publisher much like the one you’re noting. If it weren’t for the other stellar authors she has on board, I’d write off her company completely. This particular author/editor has no less than 4 pen names within the company herself, but she also has more than 100 other authors, so that’s not a bad percentage. She’s one of those that separates every genre she writes by a pen name, so she just keeps adding on pen names.
Ann… If you only write a couple of types of books…or one, submitting to only two publishers might work for you. If you work in a lot of genres or cross-genres, that might not be sufficient. In addition, you have to find the right fit. A new author MIGHT have chosen his/her two publishers, based on who everyone said was best for erotic romance (for example) and chose EC and one of the three hot runners (Samhain, LooseID or Changeling). However, said newbie might have forgotten to take into account the specific tastes/offerings of those publishers. As such, I wouldn’t scrap a project after two rejections on it. It might be that it was too dark for their lines or not enough sex. If you find the line that fits and know where your work will integrate well, you’re ahead of the game.
That’s not to say you should send out willy-nilly. You should have done this homework ahead of time. But, sometimes you’re wrong. The line may have moved a different direction, since the books you’ve read. There may be a new editor. They may have tried something that didn’t work well for them and scrapped taking that type. There are reasons that even researched choices fail.
Lynne…my apologies for the misread of your intent on that post. I agree completely with what you’re saying there about the legalities of setting up a business. And, since I’m replying to several people at once, I most likely switched topics without switching names. It happens. Posting a couple of big posts, answering several people is always more effective than two dozen smaller ones, IMO. And, I might have said Lynne to Lynne C. Grinning… There are two of you here…sigh.
Barbara… ABSOLUTELY! Remember that indie/e editors are moving to NY. In fact, isn’t Heather Osborn now with TOR? She was with EC a few years back.
Shiloh… EPIC is only as good as the drive behind it at any given time. Had I not become part of the drive train of the thing, I might have quit after my first year or two, as well. People who belong now are usually happy. You’ll never get 100% happy, and as Jeff Strand told me when I went up for President the first time, “Doing the job right means someone is going to be unhappy with you.” It was a warning not to try and please everyone, and he’s right about that. When you’re trying to please everyone, nothing gets done. Still, I made it through my first EPICon business meeting without anyone screaming at me or telling me how horrible I was doing, so that must mean something went right last term. Grinning… Tongue sort of in cheek. It’s early, and I’m punchy.
At the same time, I’m the first to admit that when people ask why you join EPIC, I tell them what works for me. If someone doesn’t find value in what’s there, he/she doesn’t, and it’s not the right place for him/her. No organization is going to be right for everyone, even if you try to people please.
Shiloh…this next part is NOT aimed at you. I want to make that clear. It’s a discussion topic about utilizing what you pay to be a member of. To a large extent, any organization is what you make it. Get involved. Seek opportunities to network or to get support. Someone who doesn’t stay on any of the lists…or only skims them once a month, save the board announcement list, is going to miss the interaction and networking at EPIC. Someone who sits back miserably and NEVER tells anyone what’s wrong or what help she needs, isn’t going to find support. How could they find value that way? Then, the year rolls around and that person asks “Why am I here?” That’s predictable. If you pay your money and expect the benefits to just appear for you, they won’t. You have to make a minimum of effort in participation to gain benefit from any organization you belong to.
Karen…give me time to answer. I did say that I was leaving town yesterday and would not be back online to answer immediately, so the attack for me not offering you immediate answers is a little ridiculous, isn’t it? No one can be online 24/7.
If that is your opinion of EPIC, it’s not the right place for you. If you think we’re just a cheerleading squad (and I had to snicker at that comparison), then don’t bother with us. Obviously, a lot of other people disagree with you. People come to us for advice. People come to network with us. People get on the lists and ask questions.
A large portion of our organization is on a mailing list, but that hardly makes us ineffective. In fact, you’ll find a lot of writers’ organizations function that way. BroadUniverse does, and I high recommend them to any woman that writes SF/F/H or cross-genres thereof. ERWA does (Erotic Readers and Writers Association). TELL does. WRW does. Even a lot of ESPAN’s business has to happen online…as well as other special interest chapters of RWA that are based on common interest and not on geographical location. These days, you have authors that want to network worldwide, and lists allow that. Some questions are best answered by someone not in your geographical area.
But, that is not all we do. We do have a yearly convention, and it’s a working convention. We have agents and editors in taking pitches. We have three class tracks. We have a yearly signing. We have social and networking events. We have EPIC business meetings. All at our convention, which we subsidize to keep it affordable. That’s not an EPIC benefit, BTW. Anyone can attend, though it costs less for EPIC members than non.
Which brings me to the monetary return EPIC members get for their membership. The membership is $30 per year. If you attend the EPICon alone, you save that $30 in con fees. If you enter the EPPIE, you pay $10 less for an entry, if you are an EPIC member. So, if you enter more than 3 times in the EPPIE or you make at least one EPPIE entry and attend the conference, you have more than recouped your membership fees, right there. Nice deal, when you think about it. Since EPIC’s membership fees are so reasonable, we can do this. The very concept of trying to make back, in a monetary sense, the RWA and chapter fees this way… That’s monumental, isn’t it?
The EPIC chapters allow authors to effectively hit conventions in their area and organize promotion for the chapter members that is based on geographical area. Some of those groups meet, face to face, depending on how scattered they are. We took a page from the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism) on this one. If you live in the far corner of a state, you can work with your state group online and meet with or work with the closer group in another state, as well.
I don’t personally find panels at conventions and promo at conventions useless. I don’t personally find inclusion in the EPIC CDs for free useless, but that’s benefit I choose to find for myself. As I said, if you don’t feel it benefits you, it’s not for you.
Is it a happy circumstance that we have so few non-author publishers? Maybe, but even when we see huge jumps in membership, as we did a few months ago, they are weighted heavily toward authors and author/publishers, who would have had the vote under the old rules, anyway. If a publisher wanted to join, of course, we would allow it. We took a calculated risk in giving publishers the right to vote, but unless publishers start joining in droves, it’s unlikely to affect anything. Right now, it certainly doesn’t.
But, your understanding of EPIC is faulty. We don’t play go-between or take sides between authors and publishers. Members can tell you that we allow author issues and publisher issues on lists. It gives both sides a better understanding of the needs of the other.
The type of promotion/education we do on e-books and e-publishing is useful to both authors and publishers. We have trifolds and CDs that address authors, which benefit publishers, and trifolds and CDs that address readers, which benefit both publishers and authors of e-books. We have a publisher coalition, but what do they spend their money on? A presence at BEA next year, which will benefit both authors and publishers. In discussion of what they wanted to do, they specifically stated they wanted to do this and encouraged as much author participation as possible in it.
If this ever changes, I imagine the uproar will be deafening. I hope it is.
I did already answer where the money goes. To be more specific, and checking this year’s budget to make sure I don’t miss anything major…
Press releases for EPPIE, New Voices and QUASAR finalists and winners (promotional expenses)…and to announce it opening, to make announcements about the convention, etc. (which are running expenses) and to post industry articles (education goal).
Ads for EPIC AND the benefits of e-publishing.
Making the various items EPIC gives away, all of which address a specific e-publishing concern…the library in your pocket, e-books in the classroom, green publishing (because indie/e certainly isn’t stripping and trashing books by the tons every year), etc.
Convention presence at other conventions. If we have people going there and representing e-publishing for us, we help them run with money for their table there and information packets/CDs/trifolds.
Our commitments to RT2008…running panels, helping with the expo and all of the promo we’re organizing for our own members there.
Board expenses, which are capped at $75 per officer, save the treasurer (since she has a lot more mailing and phoning to do than the rest of us). $75 will purchase me some stamps and envelopes, a ream of paper and two ink cartridges for my printer (and like most authors, I easily use more than a dozen print cartridges per year for my own work…I probably use more than the single cartridge I ask them to hand back to me every year on EPIC work, but I ask for one). We also (as I noted) comp, in full or part, the convention for the major working members there (those that have to run the convention and her associated parts). I might also note that I have never seen the officers take their full allotment, let alone overspend it.
The BEA presence the publisher’s coalition is shooting for. Look at it this way. We’re going to have a table with every EPIC publisher and author welcome to promo, which saves us all the cost of having to get separate tables there. It’s an industry table and not an individual, which is within our scope.
We subsidize EPICon, and we under-write nearly the entire New Voices contest. We do take some donations of prizes for it, but EPIC picks up the bill to encourage young writers and promote literacy.
We pay for our web page and our secured server for EPIC/EPPIE.
And, we have a few physical assets. At the moment, those physical assets are limited to: the EPPIE seal press for the EPPIE certificates, a handful of office supplies that move from EPICon to EPICon (a long-arm stapler, an electric three-hole punch, and a stapler…plus some pens and paper and such) and a CD burner to make our CDs. This year, we plan to add two printers to the mix. We need printers that will travel from EPICon to EPICon.
As you can see, EPIC is putting it back out in ways that aren’t benefiting a small number of members. No one is getting rich off the running of EPIC, as some organizations do.
What does EPIC do to protect its members? Aside from trying to send people out forewarned and giving advice when something does go wrong, there’s not much any organization can do. We do send people to the Lawyers for the Arts and such, when the occasion calls. We do send them to the existing lists (Piers and P&E) for reporting problems. We do encourage authors…and publishers, for that matter…to network and go in with as much information as humanly possible. I’m not really sure what more you think we should be doing. And, don’t say provide lawyers for them, because we’d have to have a lot more money to do that.
Even with as much money as RWA has, they aren’t providing lawyers to the indie/es. Their lawyers, in fact, gave almost no information to the Triskelion authors, when asked, and some of it would have placed the authors in a position to be sued, under the current bankruptcy laws. Interesting moment, when the authors realized that one.
As for your description of the hand holding and a cup of tea, sometimes that’s all there is to do. When someone comes in and vents, you let that person vent. IF there is information to be given, something that can be done or should be done, someone says it, even if the author doesn’t want to hear it. Sometimes the truth isn’t pretty, I admit.
Brenna… epic indeed.
Angela is right about the low number of non-author publishers in indie/e, as a whole. I’ve said the same thing, of course, but looking at the publishers in EPIC, almost all of them are authors. Of those I’ve dealt with personally (as my publishers…and I’ve had ten of those), I believe only two were not also authors. Even Dan Reitz, though he never claimed author status, is technically a published author, in his own right. He has nothing currently in print, but he would have qualified as an author member from day one, based on his previous publication credits.
Nora (you’re not THE Nora Roberts, are you?)… The complaint about RWA, in very specific terms, is that when they move to PAN, the authors lose the support network they enjoyed before being published and that PAN does not give them the same support network they had before. Once you move to PAN, you are no longer welcome to participate at the lower level. This is what I’m being told…not by one person, but by several. Now, as I said, this applies to NATIONAL, not to the chapters. And, I’m not talking about the National convention here. I’m talking day to day, within the organization. If it wasn’t a problem, I wouldn’t have three or four people mentioning that they wished they could throw their pins away and go back, because PAN isn’t meeting their needs. It just doesn’t make sense to me to exclude a published author from the support network, just because he/she is published. Even published authors want or need that network, in many cases.
As for their focus… That one is muddied a bit, IMO. Look at how many of their members are unpublished. That is a large demand on the group, as a whole. RWA has a split focus on teaching people to be authors and also on being there for those that are published. EPIC chooses to focus on being there for those that are published and offering information and encouragement to those that aren’t, but NOT as members of EPIC, not as a drain on what our main focus is. We’re not splitting our resources and wearing ourselves thin, as an organization, to teach people how to write. Not that I’m saying RWA is running itself thin. They’re set up to do what they do, but things do fall through the cracks.
EPIC sounds like nothing more than an award presenting group hug organization. When authors are falling prey, left and right, to unscrupulous epublishers at worst or incompetent ones at best, you have to wonder why an organization that is “for profit” isn’t doing more to prevent this from happening.
Of course, you can say that I am talking about something about which I know nothing, but having read your epic long posts, Ms. Lyons, I can tell you that my opinion of it as an organization still has not changed. An organization that represents both publishers and authors equally has inherent conflicts and prevents it from being an advocate for one part or another. And if not an advocacy group, but rather a support group, one wonders what the point of it is. If it is indeed to send out individuals “forewarned” then why are so many e authors struggling to regain their rights from bankruptcy court or going unpaid or worse, believing that non payment is acceptable?
Having read my share of epublished books and looking at the conduct of the epublished authors these past few days, I can’t help but think that there are a great number that could a) learn how to write and b) learn how to conduct themselves in public as a business entity.
I think its great that there are awards programs out there but the giving of awards does little to help the e author. I don’t think that my original opinion is unchanged and that is e authors need an organization that will look out for their best interest, that will advocate them, and teach them the skills that they need to make themselves better authors, both in the writing aspects and the business aspects.
These issues should not be left to bloggers whose interest in epublishing is from the end result aka the story. I would much prefer to feature and spotlight e presses and the books that they are putting out rather than discuss what a debacle e publishing has been