It was a book with a lot of potential, but it failed to satisfy the romance reader in me.

The plot seemed so contrived that I could not get past it, I’m afraid. Ah, yes, virtuous widows from the country often travel to London with members of the demimonde and then dress up as whores to cavort in brothels in order to entrap their gentleman employers for a night (or two!) of illicit passion. And, of course, the duke-ish employer *never* recognizes that the unfamiliar lady of the evening is his own employee/object of lustful obsession since she is wearing a remarkably effective mask throughout their sessions of hot sex. Yeah, that is really likely….. And yes, penniless virtuous widows from tiny villages often throw their reputations away with both hands and seemingly think nothing of it.

One of the only things that I really liked about the story was the unconventional appearance of the hero and heroine (neither being particularly good-looking at first glance.) But then the relentless mental lusting began, and the highly improbable plot contrivances started to pile up, and I (too) was left behind as the fan bus left the station.

I actually don’t recall the hot sex scenes in this book, but that is probably more a function of my jaded romance reader palate than the author’s skill, since I find myself skimming these sections frequently these days.

The Serpent Prince is also getting “Ooohh-la-la!” reviews, but I would be very interested in the opinion of someone else who was underwhelmed by The Raven Prince. Please write a review if you do read it, Janine.

I agree with you that many men do this, but it is not something we see a lot of in romances, probably because it is not romantic.

Sure it is that was Brokeback Mountain.

LOL! That is exactly what I was thinking about when I typed up that response to you. Dichotomy of male sexuality as romance. I just figured it was just me being way too gay again though. And it did have a tragic ending so…

Reviews like this are one of the reasons I come back to this site, day after day. I love that one of you can post that a book’s the “next best thing to sliced bread� while the next can say “Are you kidding me?!�

When I first started reviewing here, I felt I should try to review only books that hadn’t been reviewed before. But Jane quickly got that notion out of my head. She said that Dear Author’s readers love it when a book is reviewed by more than one of the reviewers. With that in mind, I’ve often reviewed books that Jane or Jayne (or in this case, both) or Janet has reviewed in the past. That’s not to say that I make it a point to do that, but I just read and review the books I’m interested in trying, whether or not they’ve already been reviewed.

Mary — I have also had that feeling of “Is something wrong with me?” when everyone else loves a book and I don’t. One of the surprising things to me about this review is that I was expecting some readers to say that I couldn’t be more wrong, but so far, they haven’t, and some people have said that their response to the book was similar to mine. It shows, I think, that no book (except perhaps the Bible) can be universally loved, and that even when we disagree with the majority, we aren’t alone.

Jayne – Looking forward to your chat review of The Serpent Prince!

Well I have not read this particular book, but my opinion is that men do compartmentalize sex and emotion, they are the gurus of the casual sex act. This is not just a historical thing that men did, it is something they do today. They have sex for personal enjoyment (sometimes not surprisingly bisexual) and they have sex based on expectations of others (wife and kids), much like a murder mystery with opportunity and justification.

I agree with you that many men do this, but it is not something we see a lot of in romances, probably because it is not romantic.

I believe when the author goes there with the male character they can not just rely on “boys will be boys�

A lot of books do rely on “boys will be boys” though. There is a common fantasy that runs through a lot of romances of reforming a rake, snagging the guy who lots of other women want, or who has been with a lot of women. It’s almost like relying on those other women’s judgement as a gauge that yes, this guy is desirable, this guy is worth choosing.

they have got to be very careful what the guy is thinking sexually, what are the motivations that might lead to him seeking sex with someone else and set the boundaries

I think Hoyt did give that some thought, and did show that Edward was constantly thinking of Anna even though he did not want to be. The book probably wasn’t as realistic about the brothel-going as it could have been, though.

As I said in the body of the review, one of the problems I had with the book is that I felt there was a lot of lust between Edward and Anna, but I didn’t see a lot of deep love. But clearly a lot of readers disagree with my opinion.

I think there would probably be some disagreement about whether or not going to a brothel undermines the hero. I’m sure there are readers who feel that way but the popularity of books with brothel scenes shows that there are many who don’t . In my case, it didn’t stand out as one of the things that most bothered me about the book.

Would any of those reasons really help the heroine’s plight if she made sure he had sex with her magic hoo-hoo in the brothel? Maybe she is reinforcing his use of this brothel later in the relationship when she is not wanting the sex or something. If it is just for the purpose of replacement sex then I think you could be undermining the hero on the way to the HEA. Unless you find some way to sell it outside of the sex.

LOL. I don’t disagree with you. But I think there are many readers (and I am sometimes one of them) who are willing to give heroes a free pass on casual sex. In my opinion it’s partly that we’ve read so many books where the rake reforms that many of us have accepted it as a kind of romancelandia truth, and partly that some of the hotter books in the genre are about sex as well as love, and we are sometimes willing to excuse some things if it results in a hot scene.

I read this book after the initial bruhaha, and while I didn’t hate it, it didn’t “wow” me either. It was…okay. Interesting in that it wasn’t about the ton, which was a big plus for me. But I wasn’t all that comfortable with the woman secreting herself away to be his secret whore, either.

On the other hand, I very recently finished The Leopard Prince and I really enjoyed most of it (the Big Misunderstanding ending was annoying, and what criminal would really just happen to take his well-known carvings along with him?!) – much more so that Raven. I’ll definitely be watching for her third book, despite her books’ flaws.

Teddy Pig — It’s actually been a while since I read the book. Due to some computer problems I’ve had the review sitting around on a hard drive I wasn’t able to access for months. So my memory is fuzzy, but I *think* that Edward went to the brothel partly in an attempt to put the heroine and his attraction to her out of his mind.

The point you make is interesting too. I think that some of us readers have become so used to rakes and other male protagonists who engage in casual sex that we sometimes give them a free pass for that without really thinking about why they do that and whether they’d be likely to change.

Well I have not read this particular book, but my opinion is that men do compartmentalize sex and emotion, they are the gurus of the casual sex act. This is not just a historical thing that men did, it is something they do today. They have sex for personal enjoyment (sometimes not surprisingly bisexual) and they have sex based on expectations of others (wife and kids), much like a murder mystery with opportunity and justification.

I believe when the author goes there with the male character they can not just rely on “boys will be boys”, they have got to be very careful what the guy is thinking sexually, what are the motivations that might lead to him seeking sex with someone else and set the boundaries, maybe it is just the way they have always blown off steam, a literal fuck buddy.

Would any of those reasons really help the heroine’s plight if she made sure he had sex with her magic hoo-hoo in the brothel? Maybe she is reinforcing his use of this brothel later in the relationship when she is not wanting the sex or something. If it is just for the purpose of replacement sex then I think you could be undermining the hero on the way to the HEA. Unless you find some way to sell it outside of the sex.

Emma – Glad you enjoyed the review. Like you, I hope to see more new authors enter the historical romance subgenre. I love historicals and new blood helps keep a genre fresh.

The other point you made that I found myself nodding about was the puzzling lack of depth to both the hero and heroine. When you introduce characters with complex pasts, you create the expectation that the characters themselves will be complex. I was disappointed in this expectation as well.

However… if Hoyt’s books are selling well, I’m happy, because perhaps that will demonstrate to The Powers That Be that an established name isn’t always necessary for a successful historical. In turn, this might move the gatekeepers to let a few more newbies in, one of which may just be my new Judith Ivory. :)

in one of the Crusie novels, the sex started out imperfect

RfP – Which one of Crusie’s novels is that? It sounds interesting and I might pick it up.

Appropriately enough, it’s called Faking It ;) The heroine’s decidedly off-kilter–which is part of what I like in Crusie’s novels. That’s one of the good things about Agnes and the Hitman too–an unusual, off-center heroine.

You make an interesting point about how some things (such as brothel-going) are somewhat more acceptable to readers in historical romances than in contemporary ones.

But what I was trying to say was that if you transported a 21st century woman to 1760 and had her view the guy the way we view historical romance heroes, with the same kind of carte blanche to sleep around that we readers often give them, then going to the brothel and playing the part of the prostitute with a man she found attractive might seem like believable behavior. What made it questionable to me was the fact that she was this respectable middle class widow who didn’t have much money, at a time when so much depended on her maintaining her reputation.

Teddy Pig — It’s actually been a while since I read the book. Due to some computer problems I’ve had the review sitting around on a hard drive I wasn’t able to access for months. So my memory is fuzzy, but I *think* that Edward went to the brothel partly in an attempt to put the heroine and his attraction to her out of his mind.

The point you make is interesting too. I think that some of us readers have become so used to rakes and other male protagonists who engage in casual sex that we sometimes give them a free pass for that without really thinking about why they do that and whether they’d be likely to change.

Not to mention the fact that I’d wonder what the heroine sees in some guy who chooses to expend his desire for her on a prostitute. That would be a wallbanger for sure.

Well, it was fairly early in their relationship and to be completely fair, he felt he couldn’t marry her because she was (A) not an aristocrat and (B) infertile. His entire family died and he felt he not only wanted children, he also felt he was obligated to them to continue his line. He couldn’t offer her marriage (or so he felt) and sleeping with her outside of wedlock could jeopardize her reputation. That (and the wish to be able to put her out of his mind) was why he chose to go elsewhere for sex.

RfP – Which one of Crusie’s novels is that? It sounds interesting and I might pick it up.

LinM, it’s not that I found Coral sympathetic, but rather that I thought her cynicism was refreshing. I would say that I liked her and enjoyed reading about her rather than that I found her likable. The romance genre is so often peopled by wide-eyed innocents and other romantics that a truly cynical character can be really invigorating.

… when I read The Raven Prince, I couldn’t get past the fact that the heroine posed as a prostitute in a brothel.

Exactly!

I think that Hoyt creates wonderful characters and I love the beginning of her novels. I heard about “The Raven Prince” about a month before it came out and haunted my local bookstore for weeks after everyone else had a copy. Finally, it arrived, I curled up for an evening of magic. I loved the opening scene – the grumpy hero, the compentent heroine, the heroine’s life with her mother-in-law. I accepted the secretarial job – thought that Hoyt had justified an anomalous position satisfactorily. The language seemed appropriate. Janine wasn’t drawn in but at this point I was enchanted.

But suddenly, the novel needed a love scene. In came the demimondaine with the heart of gold and the brothel. It was a tired cliche; it was totally out of character. I felt like I’d missed the last step on a staircase and knocked the breath out of my body. My reaction was extreme, over-the-top but I’d given myself up to the story and it had suddenly morphed from a wonderful fantasy to a travesty.

This takes me back to my opening point. I do think that Hoyt creates fascinating characters and starts her novels with compelling premises. I hope that with time, the middle and conclusion of her novels live up to the beginning although given the universal acclaim, her own talent will be the only spur for improvement.

I find it interesting that Janine found Coral likable because by that point in the novel I was howling – “no, no, no – don’t do this” and wasn’t paying any attention to the characterization.

That’s a good point, Teddy Pig. The moral dimension (“Horrors! Whores!”) doesn’t bother me as much as the switcheroo from hero who doesn’t see sex as personal, to sex with heroine being a turning point.

I also think the glittery hooha and subsequent cleaving-unto-her is all too often a way to prove the heroine’s wonderfulness rather than the hero’s attitude toward sex and love.

I liked that in one of the Crusie novels, the sex started out imperfect–that’s a much more vulnerable state for both characters than presto!perfecto! But all too often, the heroine has to be an incredible lay (her first time, even) and that makes her special AND changes his life on an emotional level. Talk about pressure. To me, the subtext of that is: if the sheet-wrestling isn’t awesome, why would he remember her?

“No way am I going to let him expend all that desire for me on someone else.�

HUH? See I could see joining him for a workout at the gym over this… but a cat house?

The whole idea of “gettin some strange” due to sexual frustration then undermines the character. He basically is indicating he could have sex with anyone and be fine with it because he does not place any emotional value on sex. Let’s hope you are not counting on the sex scenes to get your two h/h together then. Most guys into anonymous sex are into it for the anonymous part.

Not something I would use to prove dedication or strength of character in a hero after he supposedly meets his match.
You would have to work hard to redeem that quality or lack there of.

I thought I might try Hoyt again after she’s written a couple more books, but reading this review reminds me how flimsy I found Raven Prince.

“But surely, Jen, the TSTL point you mentioned, IS exactly the sort of anachronism that makes me ditch a book.”

Hmm, okay, I see your point, but I would still separate the two. When I read the book, I didn’t think, “Anna is behaving out of character for a 19th century heroine. Ick.” I thought, “what a stupid thing for this character to do.” In essence, I didn’t perceive my annoyance as a function of anachronism. I was irritated because it seemed like a very artificial way to create conflict when the characters would have been better off talking to one another. And it seemed out of character for the heroine as she had been previously established. I don’t think I would perceive my annoyance in terms of historical accuracy– the quotations Janine mentions, blowing up in his face and such, those don’t bother me at all. In fact, I’m much more likely to be bothered by anachronism in contemporaries. I remember one contemp short story in the “Once Upon a Pillow” anthology- I think it was one of the stories by Christina Dodd, although I’m not certain- the hero proposes to the heroine right after sex because she was a virgin before they slept together. That to me screams silliness.

“It’s something I could envision a 21st century woman doing without being TSTL. Providing that high class brothels were to exist today, that is. They don’t, but if they did, I don’t think it would be so dangerous to go there, and I can see a modern woman thinking “No way am I going to let him expend all that desire for me on someone else.â€?

I couldn’t accept a 21st century hero that went to a brothel to work off his lust for the heroine. Not to mention the fact that I’d wonder what the heroine sees in some guy who chooses to expend his desire for her on a prostitute. That would be a wallbanger for sure.