But that doesn’t negate the fact that the credit card companies spend hundreds of millions of dollars to lobby for changes in the bankruptcy laws, changes that benefit them and that have had differential effects on others.

That’s fair enough, Robin. I wasn’t really trying to defend big business. And don’t get me started on what they pay CEO’s today (at the same time they’re sending our jobs “offshore”). I only mentioned that I worked for one because I wanted to be up front about my background.

My friends’ abuse of the system has made me … sensitive :grin: … to complaints about the bankruptcy laws. So my reaction was a bit “knee-jerk”.

On the other hand, all organizations – big or small – lobby for laws that benefit their charters. Senators and Representatives lobby for federal money for their states. It’s the nature of the beast. I wish we could get rid of lobbyists. But I also know that if the “official” role went away, it would only happen behind closed doors. I’m too old and cynical to be idealistic about our government. :grin:

Has anyone watched the documentary “Maxed Out?�

Is this out already? Must go see…thanks!

But it drives me crazy on a purely personal level when people talk about this issue and blame the companies that lend money or offer services with a promise for later payment. Why shouldn’t they want to be paid for what they offer?!

As someone who is anal about paying my bills on time, I would be THRILLED if everyone was responsible — in part because it would make it so that other people’s failures didn’t have to fall on me in the form of rising interest rates, etc. But that doesn’t negate the fact that the credit card companies spend hundreds of millions of dollars to lobby for changes in the bankruptcy laws, changes that benefit them and that have had differential effects on others. Whether those changes are fair for consumers — especially in the midst of predatory lending practices and abolition of usury laws for interest rates — is arguable and argued among bankruptcy experts. Elizabeth Warren, who wrote the bankruptcy case book we used, is very critical of the 2005 changes, NOT because she’s an enemy of credit card companies, but because she — and others — see the bankruptcy code as a labyrinth of intersecting interests and the recent changes as very one-sided and problematic in other ways.

Although my initial post did not include a critique of the credit card companies (merely a fact about their influence on the 2005 changes to the code), I do think that it’s completely possible to support the need for consumers to be more responsible and conscientious about dealing with their debt while at the same time feeling that the way the code changed was not necessarily fair for honest consumers, either. And truly, I do have a difficult time seeing credit card companies as victims, especially in a lending environment that too easily extends credit and actually thrives when consumers make late payments and rack up late charges and increased interest rates. I have friends who are on the lending side who tell me that creditors LOVE those customers off of which they can make the most money in late fees and interest. So yeah, I have problems with that, too. Basically, I think there’s bad behavior on both sides of this particular fence. And if consumers should be held to a higher standard of personal responsibility (and I agree that it shouldn’t be a cakewalk to clear one’s debts), I guess I’m skeptical about the idea that the credit card companies should have so much influence over how that occurs.

After the 2005 changes to the Bankruptcy code (lobbied for with a mind-boggling amount of money by credit card companies), it is much more difficult to file Chapter 7, because it is generally for liquidation of consumer debt.

Sigh.

Okay, first, I work for a mortgage company, and it’s a part of a larger organization that includes banking and credit cards. So I’m sure that’ll make my opinion suspect.

But it drives me crazy on a purely personal level when people talk about this issue and blame the companies that lend money or offer services with a promise for later payment. Why shouldn’t they want to be paid for what they offer?!

I have friends who made a point of signing up for new credit cards and racking up as much debt as possible, once they decided to file for bankruptcy. Friends who learned enough about the laws to be sure to protect their house and cars, while screwing every creditor they couldn’t pay.

It made me crazy then, and these are my friends! We hear about this kind of abuse all the time, and that to me necessitated changes in the law. (I’d love to see something done about wrongful litigation, too).

I’m a person who believes in personal responsibility. It shouldn’t be easy to go back on your word. It shouldn’t be easy to steal from companies who employ working stiffs just like them. It should be necessary to prove why you deserve a chance for a clean slate (like loss of a job or illness).

And for what it’s worth, I don’t think it should be easy for business owners to screw their “suppliers” either – in this case, the “suppliers” being the authors.

Sad.

I had 12 books tangled up in the Triskelion fiasco. But when I looked more closely, 2 have expired contracts (in January and March this year) and the contracts weren’t formally renewed, although it says in the contract it has to be (the old Triskelion contract). One contract I didn’t send back, so it was never Trisk’s to begin with, and I have a release note dated June 1st for 7. That leaves 3, and I can’t resell one of those, because it’s part of a multi-author series and guess who wrote the first book – yep, Kristi Studts!
So if the court decides not to backdate claims, I have all but 2, but I’d love those 2 back and I don’t want to resell the Department 57 series without them, if I can help it.
Sigh. It’s a mess.
But – I have new books out, elsewhere, one upcoming from Samhain, and some really interesting invitations from publishers. So it’s not all bad.

As for the Ipso Facto clause, my opinion is that it would be worse to leave it out. Let us say that the b-ruptcy courts start enforcng the clause and I was the lawyer who said we should leave it out because it isn’t enforceable – I could see myself facing a huge malpractice suit.

But as to the second part, if you sign a contract and do not know the provisions of each part of the contract, that’s on you.

And the law does protect the person who did not write the contract when there are ambiguous terms, because any ambiguity in a contract is interpreted against the contract drafter. So the onus is on the drafter to write a valid contract and the onus is on the other signatory to know the terms to which s/he agrees. Although courts no longer formally emphasize the “meeting of the minds” test (except for my favorite tv show, “The People’s Court), the whole idea of a contract is that it represents an agreement between parties to something for which both parties have both duties and rights. And ultimately, the freedom to contract is deemed more important than the possibility of having an unfair contract, although equity is strongly considered when a contract relationship lands in litigation. And lawyers make mistakes, too. I was always surprised at how eager many of my law school classmates were to get out and practice, because part of me is terrified of what’s going to happen once I’m licensed and can give legal advice or handle issues outside the kind of supervision — and protection — we get as law students. Bright, conscientious lawyers are absolutely fallible, so even contracts drafted by well-respected attorneys can contain errors and flaws.

As to the inclusion of Ipso Facto clauses, many contracts are so-called “boilerplate” (e.g. leases), where the parties are basically filling in a form (and leases often have these IP clauses in them, too), and often neither of the people entering into that kind of contract is a lawyer. So these types of clauses appear routinely even though they are rarely enforceable in a bankruptcy situation (IIRC they are often broader than bankruptcy, and so there might be other situations in which they can be enforced, but I may be wrong about that).

I would urge everyone to continue on with your wip until that time. I would urge everyone that while you weren’t accorded the rights of human decency you deserved, if you are with a new publisher, make sure they are aware. I’ve read some authors are considering to just simply change the title, name or their work and submit it to an unsuspecting publisher. DON’T. Thats not only dangerous but its fraud and the long term effects will last longer than this big bump in the road.

As a layperson with no stake in this mess, I really hope that the Trisk authors heed this advice. After the 2005 changes to the Bankruptcy code (lobbied for with a mind-boggling amount of money by credit card companies), it is much more difficult to file Chapter 7, because it is generally for liquidation of consumer debt. The presumption in Chapter 7 now is “abuse,” so the debtor basically has to prove that s/he is legally worthy of financial discharge. And even though Trisk is a business, it can qualify as an “individual” under Chapter 7 rules. But that doesn’t mean that they are off the hook once they file, that they will qualify for all the Chapter 7 rules (there are complex tests to determine fresh start eligibility), and that they won’t be transferred into, say, Chapter 13, where they will have to pay off their debts instead of just discharging them. There is A LOT of process in a bankruptcy case, especially if the financial situation of the debtor is complicated. I knew NOTHING about bankruptcy until I took a law school class on it (taught by the former U.S. Trustee for the area encompassed by the Trisk case), and I was absolutely blown away by all the ins and outs, all the rules and limitations and areas of litigation. If I were a Trisk author at this point, I’d mentally separate myself from those Trisk books until everything gets straightened out (and following the advice of a good attorney or calling the AZ clerk’s office, or following up with RWA), because who knows what’s ultimately going to happen and how long it’s going to take, and who would want to spoil their reputation over that kind of thing? I’m not a Romance author, but I give away intellectual property every day, and one thing I’ve learned is that there’s always more where that came from — for every idea or piece of writing I give away (as work for hire), two more can come in to fill the gap. And usually the new ones are better than the old ones.

I guess as a naive non-lawyer, I’m still sitting here in slight shock that a part of a legal contract isn’t legal.

For years I’ve been telling authors your books are not your babies this is your business. Its important to learn the business side of this industry–all of it. From understanding contracts to the importance of marketing and promotion.

I’ve gone back into several posts by Anon and he/she was so right on so many points. She was never hateful, though some of her/his hurts came through loud and clear. He/she was screaming in warning but in retrospect it was already too late. Six months, this can go back six months!

No one can put a price on the late night hours, the expense to promote your work much less explaining it to readers. In each book lies an author’s dream. How dark does your heart have to be to kill a dream?

Where are Ron and Kristi Studts now?

Have they apologized? How hard is it to do the right thing? They knew this was a possibility months ago.

For those of us who once built Triskelion to the last author who had their book accepted, we are all on a rollar coaster that rides up with hope, down with anger and injustice, around the curve to an uncertain future left for the books at Trisk.

I apologize for this soapbox but I so feel anguish for the authors caught in this vortex.

I will end as my previous post because I do believe in time, each author will regain their rights to any books tangled in the Triskelion downfall. I would urge everyone to continue on with your wip until that time. I would urge everyone that while you weren’t accorded the rights of human decency you deserved, if you are with a new publisher, make sure they are aware. I’ve read some authors are considering to just simply change the title, name or their work and submit it to an unsuspecting publisher. DON’T. Thats not only dangerous but its fraud and the long term effects will last longer than this big bump inthe road.

Refocus your attention to your wip, remember who you are, a wonderful writer, author. Like a Phoenix, each of you will rise again, stronger, more powerful and beautiful your new found wisdom has come with a very high price. You will see your name on a book again, I beleive in you.

And again Dear Authors, thank you for giving everyone good informatiion. This is not your fight and yet, you’ve more than stood for right and the honor of everyone here. Thank you, God Bless you. Linn

In a world full warning labels you would think they would have included contracts.