But that doesn’t negate the fact that the credit card companies spend hundreds of millions of dollars to lobby for changes in the bankruptcy laws, changes that benefit them and that have had differential effects on others.

That’s fair enough, Robin. I wasn’t really trying to defend big business. And don’t get me started on what they pay CEO’s today (at the same time they’re sending our jobs “offshore”). I only mentioned that I worked for one because I wanted to be up front about my background.

My friends’ abuse of the system has made me … sensitive :grin: … to complaints about the bankruptcy laws. So my reaction was a bit “knee-jerk”.

On the other hand, all organizations – big or small – lobby for laws that benefit their charters. Senators and Representatives lobby for federal money for their states. It’s the nature of the beast. I wish we could get rid of lobbyists. But I also know that if the “official” role went away, it would only happen behind closed doors. I’m too old and cynical to be idealistic about our government. :grin:

Has anyone watched the documentary “Maxed Out?�

Is this out already? Must go see…thanks!

But it drives me crazy on a purely personal level when people talk about this issue and blame the companies that lend money or offer services with a promise for later payment. Why shouldn’t they want to be paid for what they offer?!

As someone who is anal about paying my bills on time, I would be THRILLED if everyone was responsible — in part because it would make it so that other people’s failures didn’t have to fall on me in the form of rising interest rates, etc. But that doesn’t negate the fact that the credit card companies spend hundreds of millions of dollars to lobby for changes in the bankruptcy laws, changes that benefit them and that have had differential effects on others. Whether those changes are fair for consumers — especially in the midst of predatory lending practices and abolition of usury laws for interest rates — is arguable and argued among bankruptcy experts. Elizabeth Warren, who wrote the bankruptcy case book we used, is very critical of the 2005 changes, NOT because she’s an enemy of credit card companies, but because she — and others — see the bankruptcy code as a labyrinth of intersecting interests and the recent changes as very one-sided and problematic in other ways.

Although my initial post did not include a critique of the credit card companies (merely a fact about their influence on the 2005 changes to the code), I do think that it’s completely possible to support the need for consumers to be more responsible and conscientious about dealing with their debt while at the same time feeling that the way the code changed was not necessarily fair for honest consumers, either. And truly, I do have a difficult time seeing credit card companies as victims, especially in a lending environment that too easily extends credit and actually thrives when consumers make late payments and rack up late charges and increased interest rates. I have friends who are on the lending side who tell me that creditors LOVE those customers off of which they can make the most money in late fees and interest. So yeah, I have problems with that, too. Basically, I think there’s bad behavior on both sides of this particular fence. And if consumers should be held to a higher standard of personal responsibility (and I agree that it shouldn’t be a cakewalk to clear one’s debts), I guess I’m skeptical about the idea that the credit card companies should have so much influence over how that occurs.

After the 2005 changes to the Bankruptcy code (lobbied for with a mind-boggling amount of money by credit card companies), it is much more difficult to file Chapter 7, because it is generally for liquidation of consumer debt.

Sigh.

Okay, first, I work for a mortgage company, and it’s a part of a larger organization that includes banking and credit cards. So I’m sure that’ll make my opinion suspect.

But it drives me crazy on a purely personal level when people talk about this issue and blame the companies that lend money or offer services with a promise for later payment. Why shouldn’t they want to be paid for what they offer?!

I have friends who made a point of signing up for new credit cards and racking up as much debt as possible, once they decided to file for bankruptcy. Friends who learned enough about the laws to be sure to protect their house and cars, while screwing every creditor they couldn’t pay.

It made me crazy then, and these are my friends! We hear about this kind of abuse all the time, and that to me necessitated changes in the law. (I’d love to see something done about wrongful litigation, too).

I’m a person who believes in personal responsibility. It shouldn’t be easy to go back on your word. It shouldn’t be easy to steal from companies who employ working stiffs just like them. It should be necessary to prove why you deserve a chance for a clean slate (like loss of a job or illness).

And for what it’s worth, I don’t think it should be easy for business owners to screw their “suppliers” either – in this case, the “suppliers” being the authors.

Sad.