At times I feel sexist because I would prefer to buy books by women authors. I have tried to read male authors but the ones I have read do not develop their characters like I like to have it done.

I agree. I enjoy David Brin’s books but not for the characterization. The only exceptions I can think of to this are James Lee Burke and Jim Butcher.

Maybe you have to be a Jimmy in order to write deep rich characters.

It amazes me how much books by women authors are pushed aside and deemed too “fluffy” to be given any literary value. You should’ve heard the uproar in one of my classes when someone lumped Jane Austen in the classic literature group. The majority of students seemed to think of her books as old brainless romance novels and refused to give her any kind of credit.

As for men writing stronger heroines than women writers… well as you pretty much said, that’s just bullshit. Wonderful response that article, Jane.

I do think I read more women writers, but only because i read more romance, and the vast majority of romance writers are women.

And no, I don’t find it easier to overlook bad characterizations because of a whiz bang plot. I don’t get that at all.

I also don’t think “pink” equates with “girl” but maybe that’s because I never wore it growing up. It’s a color, same as any other.

Finally, I totally agree with Jane about smart not having anything to do with ones ability to solve crimes. One of the reasons I’ve never been into the mystery genre (until veronica Mars, which I love because, you guessed it, the strong characterization) was because I had little interest in the whole crime-solving past-time.

Robin, I think you’ve kind of summed it up right there–clearly more eloquently than I did.

I think with so many novels getting published each month, it’s too easy for a lot of authors to just stick with sort of shallow gender stereotypes for their characters (Women automatically want lots of children! Men are never the needy, clingy ones in the relationship!) and not really flesh their characters out fully. Furthermore I think in romance and women’s fiction, because they’re so driven by characterization and character interaction, there’s less for the heroines to do and focus on besides the relationship issues.

I think what I personally am responding to in the “men books” I’ve read is that the characters have a little more spark because they have something to work towards, a clear goal is in sight. There’s less motivation and goals assigned to characters in women’s fiction for the most part, and for me personally I find that unappealing. In too many romances/chick lit that I’ve read lately (and I’ve read many more than I have thrillers or other traditionally “male” books), the women are characterized as kind of aimless and juvenile and lacking that motivation to make them interesting. (For my money, Jenny Crusie does motivation better than anyone. She’s a perfect example of a writer who creates romance heroines who are never boring.)

I love romance and women’s fiction and I’m a feminist and I’m not trying to malign the genre. What I was expressing was my surprise to discover that I enjoy heroines written by men more than a lot of the heroines written by women that I’ve read. I mean it should go without saying, but clearly your mileage may vary.

My post doesn’t speak for a genre and it doesn’t speak for RT or the way anyone else there thinks or feels, any more than I should hope Sandy AAR’s post speaks for AAR. We’re all individuals and we all have opinions (they are like assholes, after all). But it does speak to the way I feel, based on what I’ve been reading (and in my former job at RT and my current job as an assistant acquisitions editor and managing editor at BBC Audiobooks America, I get to read quite a bit.) The books traditionally pegged as men’s books are by and large offering more interesting heroines FOR ME than the books traditionally pegged as women’s books. Are there bestselling female authors (like all the ones you’ve named here) that write fabulous characters? Of course there are, that’s why they’re bestsellers. But hey there’s also Cassie Edwards out there. And it’s disappointing to me to see more new romances being released that follow in her footsteps than in Jenny’s.

I think reading within a genre can both condition and jade you as a reader. I know I respond to things in Romance differently now that I’ve been steeped in the genre. I’m hypersensitized to some things (like how strong women still have to be soft and gooey inside) and differently sensitized to others — like how when I first read Shadow and the Star, as maybe the first or second Romance I read, I thought Leda was a wet rag, but when I re-read the book later, I saw her strength and dignity clearly. Sometimes I think there’s a certain shorthands in genre fiction for types and characters and characteristics, and sometimes I think this shorthand sort of backfires, depending on how a reader fills in the blanks and on how far beyond that shorthand an author takes his or her characters.

Thanks for the discourse. I can confess that I didn’t post to be deliberately provocative. It was rather more an afterthought. I posted what I wanted to say and then thought “Hmm I bet some people aren’t going to like that.”
But I’m used to that…

I’ve read these posts with interest and I think perhaps I didn’t make my point clearly enough and/or people are OVERgeneralizing what I said. I didn’t say ALL women are writing dumb heroines or that ALL men are writing smart heroines. Nor did I say that ALL men do a better job, etc. etc.

There are plenty of smart heroines in fiction written by women. I’ve read Charlaine Harris and Caren Lissner and Judith Ivory (who writes probably the smartest romances around) and SEP (whose heroine for Match Me If You Can–Annabel–may just be the worst example of that neurotic, supposedly brilliant/capable businesswoman who is anything but, yet she turned it around with the fairly crafty chick in Natural Born) and lots of other authors who are pretty fabulous. (Oh yeah and for the doubters out there, I challenge you to read Nancy Bartholomew’s stripper series and not think Sierra’s damn clever beneath the bleached roots). Ferfe’s heroine Tara (ahem) is a great example of a smart, DIFFERENT heroine for the genre.

But, I’ve read a good number of really poor romances and chick lit (perhaps in part due to my total immersion with the genre during my time at RT) with heroines who like to tell me they’re smart and yet don’t follow through with their actions. There are far too many dithering fool heroines who don’t really make an impression. Maybe it’s the sheer glut of too many books on the market that’s leaving me with these experiences. Not sure.

For my money, the male writers I’ve chosen to read (and mainly my tastes lie with mysteries nowadays after being burnt out on too many predictable romances/women’s fiction with stock characters) are crafting more interesting, complex, smarter heroines. It’s not a scourge to the genre, it’s my personal reading experience.

It is an interesting (to me anyway) fact that I tend to find the heroines in mysteries more dynamic than those in romance and women’s fiction. Perhaps I feel like the women who are spending 95 percent of their time wallowing in melodrama over their relationships simply need to get a hobby.
Perhaps the whole point of romance just doesn’t appeal to me anymore. I hope I havent’ gotten that cynical…and I don’t think I have because give me a Jenny Crusie book (written alone) and my heart will flutter any day. Show me a little great Julia Quinn historical banter and I’m all yours. I don’t know, I guess I can’t find what I’m looking for nowadays in romance or chick lit. (I’ve talked mostly about romance here, but I adore some chick lit heroines who worry about trivial things like the size of their posteriors too–Marian Keyes is a goddess, and I really enjoy Heather Cochran, Ariella Papa, and Jody Gehrman’s recent leading ladies.)

But I like this feedback (incensed or not) because I do want to hear recommendations for great female characters. So carry on, carry on. Give me some pointers on who not to miss!

Christine Rimmer replies:
March 5th, 2007 | Quote
Unfortunately for Tara/Flavia, succeeded in making *herself* look far less than Mensa-qualified.

unworthy of the effort required to step on them …

Sandy AAR replies:
March 5th, 2007 | Quote
Though you certainly took her out very nicely, Jane, you’re giving her essay a credence that it doesn’t deserve. JMHO.

And … (possibly) unemployed

Sandy AAR replies:
March 5th, 2007 | Quote
Jane, I think we’re fortunate that she’s a former RT Managing Editor.

Carry on.

I often bemoan the lack of well-drawn, “strong” heroines in Romance, especially compared to heroines in mystery and fantasy (and even YA novels). And I agree with Alison Kent (I think. I apologize if I’m not giving credit where its due), that many romance readers are far more interested in a strong “alpha” male than the female characters. I’ve seen comments where it is explicitly stated that a reader could care less about the heroine, or a book is dismissed out of hand if the hero is described to be other than traditionally “alpha”. I find it fascinating that such a female driven genre is so much more concerned with the characterization of the males. But the romance genre is huge and very diverse, and the strong heroines are out there.

Everyone’s come up with great suggestions for females who write intelligently and who write intelligent women. I’d like to throw in Sharan Newman and Lindsey Davis (historical mysteries). And for straight up dark and violentand non-feminine, how about Minette Walters, Poppy Z. Brite, Kathe Koja, or Caitlin Kiernan?