Jun 5 2007
Bestseller Lists Demystified: Readers, We Are Following the Wrong Leaders
***
Next week, more on book sales, Wal-mart, the midlist, and you. Sorenson’s article on Bestsellers is particularly illuminating as it dives into the numbers and I’ll be talking plenty about that article.
Sources used:
* Top Bestseller Lists
* Wikipedia: NYT Bestseller list
* Personal emails
* Readers Tap Bestseller List for New Authors
* Bestseller Lists and Product Variety
* The Problem with Bestsellers
* Making Books
* The Book Industry’s Bestseller Lists.
Related posts:
Jun 05, 2007 @ 05:39:11
I think I’d struggle to come up with ten, if we’re talking about new books or books soon to be released. My fave books this year so far have more often than not been books that have been out for a couple of years already.
Jun 05, 2007 @ 06:52:18
I have no idea whether or not the books I pick up have ever been on Bestseller Lists. I ignore such lists completely as not being relevant to my reading preferences. I pick my books based on known (to me) authors and feedback from blogs and message boards. I thank you for your ten recommendations, though. :)
Jun 05, 2007 @ 07:19:40
Wasserman left the LA Times book review a year, no, two years ago. The current editor is David Ulin and yes, they have a best seller list.
Jun 05, 2007 @ 07:47:54
Jane, thank you very much for this post. The term “bestseller” makes a lot more sense to me now that it’s in perspective.
Jun 05, 2007 @ 07:57:28
I can’t remember the last time I read a Bestseller list, much less allowed it to influence what I buy. And I can’t help but think they’re irrelevant to a lot of genre readers.
And you don’t have to sell me on The Sharing Knife — I’ve been waiting for it since I got my hands on the first one!
Jun 05, 2007 @ 08:03:12
That’s weird about WalMart, because I know publishers are able to get sales numbers from them. If they’re not tracking the books somehow, how do they know who they are selling? They must know — what other information can they use to base ordering on? I mean, they go through a distributor, that person would have to know what’s selling.
As for bestseller lists…I’ve made a couple. And even though Bookscan is more accurate, the USA Today showing made me feel more like I had ‘arrived.’ Go figure. It doesn’t really mean anything except your book sold really well at first. Publishing companies like to see it, but the bottom line is still how well the book performs overall. Say Meljean Brooke and I release a book on the same day for the same publisher. We both have print runs of 100 000. I hit the USA Today and she doesn’t (or vice versa). That’s great, but if six to 12 months later I’ve sold 50% of my original run and she’s sold 70%, her sales are looked on more favorably by the publisher.
I’ve probably over-simplified and someone with more knowledge of the business could correct me, but that’s my understanding of the whole thing.
Jun 05, 2007 @ 08:06:43
I’m thinking it must be the distributor because the book sections in Wal-mart are actually run by levy and anderson, I believe. So they must count the number of books they place in the store and then when they go to replen or remove, they count the number they are getting back. But they can’t do point of sales reports that USA Today, Bookscan require. One article said that the editor of the PW Trade list has worked for years to get Wal-mart to be a source of reporting, but still hasn’t cracked them.
I saw conflicting reports of whether Wal-mart was part of the NYT list.
Jun 05, 2007 @ 08:14:48
Speaking as an author, I’ve always known NYT and other lists are weighted, and I take them with a grain of salt. I put more faith in USA Today and Bookscan which list point-of-sale purchases (what people are *really* buying). Bookscan is the only one (as far as I know) that lists series romance–Harlequin Presents, Silhoutte Special Edition, and Desire are regular appearers, and their sales numbers are similar to single-title romance sales. I am skeptical about Nielson’s claim to report 70% of booksales, because they don’t have Anderson (who supply to Walmart, grocery and drug chains). Anderson orders can easily account for 1/3 of a print run. In hardback, Nielson might be right; in mass market, no.
Speaking as a reader, I don’t much look at the lists when choosing what to read. I choose by time period, setting, favorite author, etc. I’m willing to read brand new authors who haven’t made a mark as well as the blockbusters. Right now I’m reading Naomi Novik’s second book in her dragon series–whether that made any lists I can’t remember. I picked it up because–dragons, Napoleonic Wars, Regency–what’s not to love?
Speaking as an author again: Would I like to be on the NYT list? You bet! But if I never get there, I won’t consider myself a failure. I love writing what I write, but it may never be what gets to NYT.
Jun 05, 2007 @ 08:45:59
Jane, you da pimp.
Jun 05, 2007 @ 09:56:57
What a fabulous thing to see first thing in the morning. Thank you!!!
I don’t pretend to understand bestseller lists. I see the same names over and over and figure that means something. At this point in my career, I’m happy when someone other than my mom buys my book. Of course, if someone is thinking about buying 4,000 copies of my book, well, I wouldn’t argue.
And, there’s no question that mentions like this help. For example, I saw Sherry’s books on Romantic Advances and now here. You convinced me. I’ll buy her book because of you guys. I already have Meljean’s book – it’s awesome – and planned to get Nalini’s book. Thanks to this push, I’ll go check out the others on your list as well. Word of mouth is a powerful thing.
Jun 05, 2007 @ 10:38:31
I’ll take being on this bestseller list, any day!
HelenKay, I don’t understand them either — but I do know I’d like to hit one, eventually. The sales would be great, of course, but the real reason is something more like Job Security. I know bestsellers can be dropped if sales of later books decrease, but it seems like a publisher might hang on a little longer to someone who has hit a list than someone whose sales have just been okay. And I agree that every little mention helps. Because of reviews and mentions around the blogs, I’ve planned to get/gotten every book on that list up there, except for Sherry’s … but now I’ll be checking that one out, too.
Now if I can just find the time to read them, sigh.
Jun 05, 2007 @ 10:51:35
Holy cow! You put my name on your list! I’m thrilled and honored to be on this bestseller list! (Okay Eve…back away from the exclamation point key…just back away…)
Jun 05, 2007 @ 10:55:58
I take the best-seller lists with a grain of salt because practically anyone can get on them (#50!) and use the moniker “USA Today”/”New York Times” on their books despite the fact that they only hit the list once. That said, I do do the snoopy dance when a favorite authors hits the list, but only because it heralds that they have a larger chance of remaining under contract. Thats said, my (short and likly to be modified) best-seller list is as follows:
I second the Hoyt and the Kenin and raise you a L.A. Banks’ Bad Blood: A Crimson Moon Novel , Rachel Butler’s Scorched, Patricia Sargeant’s On Fire and Elspeth McKendrick’s Perfidia.
Jun 05, 2007 @ 10:57:46
Hey, I’ve got Scorched but I have never heard of the last two books. Am off to find out more about them. I want to read Banks’ books, but I haven’t read the first one and I figure that they are the type that need to be read in order.
Jun 05, 2007 @ 11:02:24
The link to Melissa Marr’s website isn’t working. I think it’s because you’ve missed out the hyphen: http://www.melissa-marr.com.
Jun 05, 2007 @ 11:47:20
Okay, I can’t come up with 10 off the top of my head but I will add
Michelle Styles – The Roman’s Virgin Mistress due in July from Harlequin
and Julie Kenner’s Demons Are Forever also due in July.
Jun 05, 2007 @ 12:41:29
Ok I love Nora Roberts’s books and I buy them in hardback as soon as they come out but I don’t get how her re-prints are on the best-sellers lists all the time.
I don’t look at the bestsellers’ lists to buy a book because frankly how many romances actually make the list. It still is confusing as to how they get the numbers… Demons and Angels sold that many to be on the list for as long as it has been? Are there that many book buyers?
I do love looking at your recommendations especially when you suggest authors I have not read before. Please keep that up because I love finding new books to read.
Jun 05, 2007 @ 12:57:51
Bad Blood is the start of Banks’ new werewolf series that comes out this fall. But yeah, her Vampire Huntress Legends series need to be read in order, and the installment that is being released in July (The Cursed) is book 9 of 12. The Sargeant is a RS with a firefighter hero (mwuaha!) and the McKendrick is a historical romance set in WWII Berlin (the author was formerly known as Morag McKendrick Pippin, btw).
Jun 05, 2007 @ 12:58:27
I take the best-seller lists with a grain of salt because practically anyone can get on them (#50!) and use the moniker “USA Today�/�New York Times� on their books despite the fact that they only hit the list once.
And what about authors who make a list in an antho with a big name lead and then are able to call themselves NYT bestselling. Kinda stinky.
Jun 05, 2007 @ 12:59:54
Carrie, I hate that too!!!
Jun 05, 2007 @ 13:08:47
And what about authors who make a list in an antho with a big name lead and then are able to call themselves NYT bestselling. Kinda stinky.
That’s the whole point of the publisher putting the newbie in the antho. While it is slight of hand, it’s a trick I’d take if it were offered. LOL!
Jun 05, 2007 @ 13:19:04
Doesn’t the recording industry track cumulative sales with its gold and platinum status awards? I think I would find it more interesting to know cumulative sales in the way Kathryn S described above, although I doubt we have access to that kind of data.
But by way of example, the community of readers that we have here, loosely knit through various blogs in addition to DA, buzzed about The Raven Prince. Long after it was released many of us were buying/borrowing it. We’d have had no affect on it’s bestseller status, but we might have had one on its cumulative total. I have no idea how big the DA “community” is, but I think it would be both informative and entertaining to know that 20 of us read Book XYZ this month. The book may or may not be tied to a particular release date.
P.S. I really hate you, Jane for that link to Sherry Thomas’ book. I read the excerpt and am totally frustrated that I have to wait 9 months and 20 days for the rest of it!
Jun 05, 2007 @ 13:27:56
Phyl – Isn’t it great. I read it too after seeing it on Sybil’s blog and I emailed the author saying, hey, if you have an arc, I’d love to read it. It was originally scheduled for the fall but then Bantam is giving her the back to back release (which is good) so we all have to wait. Okay, not all, but generically speaking.
Thomas’ excerpt is a great example of how excerpts can really whet the appetite. Her ending is so grand.
I think it would be fun for the community of bloggers to do a blogging experiment about a book. I think a midlist or debut author would be great for this. Any suggestions folks? I think it would have to be a paperback. Maybe if I got 20 bloggers signed up, I could see if a publisher would be interested in donating the books?
Jun 05, 2007 @ 14:11:26
Maybe if I got 20 bloggers signed up, I could see if a publisher would be interested in donating the books?
Oh, I’d love doing this if you let authors be readers, too, heh!
Jun 05, 2007 @ 14:34:08
Um, since some of those “exalted” best seller lists don’t make a lick of sense, how would I know who/what actually IS a best seller?
Like alot of the others that commented, I don’t pay much attention to those best seller lists. But I will admit that, while browsing for books, I will stop at one labeled “From Best Selling Author” more often than I will another unfamiliar author’s books. It’s another selling tool like the cover design, title, author recommendations or review blurbs.
Although, if I was an author, it would give me some way cool bragging rights! *g*
Jun 05, 2007 @ 23:37:06
I must be one of the most naive writers around. For years, I thought it was all based on plain ole revenue, just like movies that move up and down the Top Ten list based on gross takings. And the NYT method is confidential??!! I mean, WTF? Thanks J&J for explaining all this to us innocents! :)
Can’t wait to explain this one to DH, who already thinks the publishing world is a few cards short of a full deck.
Jun 06, 2007 @ 01:01:25
I just hate it when an author gets the little title of “NYT Best Selling Author” and waves it around like THAT is their sole credibility. If your story rocks, let it stand on that. If your story stinks, then let it stink.
I can see how it could give you job security but it’s still a slightly hallow one. But jobs are jobs. As a reader though it’s just slightly irritating that I look at various book fronts and see this huge title and all I can think of is “Really? So what week did you shine?”
Jun 06, 2007 @ 08:23:07
I’ll volunteer PRIVATE ARRANGEMENTS for your experiment, Jane. Me, me, me! Pick me please! :-) I think Bantam would cough up the books. If not, heck, I’ll print them out myself and mail it to everyone.
Sherry
Jun 06, 2007 @ 08:37:34
I’d love to do your book Sherry, but its not out till 2008!!!
Jun 06, 2007 @ 09:01:00
Oh, I wish it could be Sherry’s book. I’d be BEGGING to be one of the 20 for that!
Jun 06, 2007 @ 09:28:13
Thanks for the information, this is good to know. This sheds a whole new light on the term “best Seller”.
Jun 06, 2007 @ 11:39:08
I made Jane’s Bestseller List, I made Jane’s Bestseller List!
:dance-dance:
:dance-dance:
On a serious note, excellent post. I love the line about measuring velocity. It’s awesome, because it captures the essence of the bestseller perfectly.
Velocity is so easily altered. When Magic Bites was released, it didn’t do that well in the first week, but did slightly better in the second week. I thought that was rather odd, but it was explained to me that I, accidentally, hit the same release window as the 4 other paranormal/urban fantasy books. So I picked up a lot of “rebound” readers, who have bought their first pick and came back to the store looking for something similar. Which shows how easily sales rank in general can be manipulated by all sorts of circumstances.
Another interesting thing: the best advertisement for the book is the presence of copies in the store. While a book with a larger print run isn’t guaranteed to do better than a book with a smaller print run, it helps. Science fiction and fantasy genre print runs tend to be smallish for first time authors, around 12-17K, while first time paranormal romance author can hit 2, 3, 5 times that number. Truth is, SF/F has a much smaller audience than romance. Suppose there is a book that straddles the line between being a Fantasy and a Paranormal Romance. It can easily hit all sorts of bestseller rank on SF/F bestseller list, while doing poorly among other romances.
The more I become familiar with the business of publishing, the less sense it makes.
Jun 06, 2007 @ 13:04:37
Darn! Do me for Round 2 then. You have to experiment several times to know if the result is reliable and repeatable. :-)
Jun 06, 2007 @ 14:01:03
Jane – Mine comes out in 2007 (June 26th, in case anyone is wondering). I’ll volutneer if you want to try it.
Jun 06, 2007 @ 15:04:00
[quote comment="30223"]
The more I become familiar with the business of publishing, the less sense it makes.[/quote]
That’s not good, I’m new to this and I can’t make any sense of that. If it gets an worse I’m in trouble. :)
Jun 06, 2007 @ 20:51:47
I don’t think I pay much attention to the “lists.” I know in our store we may start out with what’s on a list but then as stuff sells, we replace it with books that we have a large quantity of. :) So we’re probably misleading the public. LOL I am intrigued by your choices though.
Jun 21, 2007 @ 08:17:25
Melissa Marr’s Wicked Lovely is 8th on the July 1st NYT list. :)
Jun 21, 2007 @ 08:19:42
Is it on the Children’s list because it wasn’t on the usatoday top 150.
Jackie Kessler - Cat and Muse
Mar 23, 2008 @ 16:21:32
[...] My Dear Creator was hanging out at Dear Author, where there’s a terrific post about what it means to be a bestselling author. Me, I’d always thought to be a bestseller, you had to make a deal with You Know Who. (Hey, I drink the company Kool-Aid, you know?) Turns out, that’s not the case. Check out the post. [...]
Chris Eastvedt : Are Bestseller Lists Worth the Chase?
Dec 24, 2009 @ 01:49:01
[...] To be fair, coordinating precise, sale-by-sale data from thousands of stores each week is a daunting task: different stores have different systems of record keeping, there are delays getting the information to a central source, etc. But the thing is, if you're going to portray your list as definitive, you're obligated to step up and ensure this truth or state clearly to readers that what you're presenting is based more on opinion than fact. [...]
Tweets that mention Bestseller Lists Demystified: Readers, We Are Following the Wrong Leaders | Dear Author -- Topsy.com
Jan 20, 2011 @ 23:12:07
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Jane L, Daniel Friedman and Rachel Jameson, Andrew Shaffer. Andrew Shaffer said: "Bestseller lists demystified" by @jane_l : http://bit.ly/gVXOY8 – A good rundown of the various lists and what they mean [...]