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Start Up EPress Sending Lots of Unsolicited Emails to Authors and...

EDITED TO ADD: Other RR threads here.

I received a number of complaints about start up epress Ravenous Romance harvesting email addresses from the web (if you leave an email to comment, we only use it for contests and don’t give that information out to anyone else) and then spamming people (particularly authors) with news about its activities and requests for submissions.

You’ll remember that Ravenous Romance promises to blow other epresses out of the water. You might also remember one of its biggest cheerleaders is Jill Elaine Hughes or Jamaica Layne who, among other things, is now editing at least an anthology for Ravenous Romance. At first, the word was that RR was only accepting agented submissions. Now, RR seems hard up for content as it is soliciting writers on the NaNoWriMo boards and mass emailing on erotic romance mailing lists.

Maybe it’s part of their awesome PR campaign to raise awareness of the product. I don’t know, though, that is the best way to go about gaining new business (or new authors).

Jane Litte is the founder of Dear Author, a lawyer, and a lover of pencil skirts. She spends her downtime reading romances and writing about them. Her TBR pile is much larger than the one shown in the picture and not as pretty. You can reach Jane by email at jane @ dearauthor dot com

290 Comments

  1. Ann Bruce
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 13:23:40

    What if this person's comments are in fact designed to make RR look bad???????

    Okay, I admit it. It’s me. As a writer for that publisher started by an “unpublished housewife” and is “flying by the seat of their pants”, I felt RR is a threat to my fledgling career. And I felt snubbed since I’m not good enough to submit to them because I’m unagented. *sniff*

    *snort*

    No kettle korn for me, please. Anyone haz kettle chips?

    *cough* I qualify for Mensa, too. *cough*

    I've always thought black people are assholes who deserve to be shot, dontcha think?

    Karen owes me a new keyboard.

    ReplyReply

  2. ladyslipper
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 13:24:14

    Much as I’d love to continue this discussion, it is fruitless. Jane, I am not backpeddling, whatever that insinuates. And you just launched into a lengthy speil about RR again. Are you people really that dense? You keep trying to link me to them because that is the only argument you have to destroy them. My posts are not for any reason in personal defense of them, but I guess I can say it twenty more times and there are so many more of you to answer with the same old b.s. I reiterate, questioning them is NOT what you did. Slam, demoralize, condescend, judge and a thousand other adjectives would better describe what you did. But it’s obvious you’re not going to admit it or recognize. I know . . . it takes a really big person/people to say “I/We were wrong.” And obviously, the people on this forum are not BIG.

    You say there are few RR authors who know the difference between porn and erotica. I didn’t see all the posts then, because I thought there were only a few who attempted to speak up and got blasted into the millenium by your kind readers/authors and ducked out with their faith in humanity lost. I understand why. What your readers/authors did was hateful, uncalled for an mostly untrue. Just like your statement, “Most of their authors don’t know the difference between porn and erotica.” How many have you asked? Be truthful (once). How many authors does this publishing company have? How many of you have read any of their books? Apparently someone has because she slammed them about their committment and told them they better deliver or — OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!

    Now someone is on my ass about swearing. Did that judgmental person read the previous posts from your readers that including swearing and the “f” word? Double standard????

    If this is your blog, I’m afraid it has brought you a whole lot more bad publicity now than this publishing company you are determined to destroy.

    And for the tenth or is it the 20th time — WHY? Because they spammed some authors? God, I agree, “get a rope, let’s hang em.”

    I won’t be visiting Dear Author again. I know, breathe a sigh of relief. I’ve wasted my time trying to deal with moronic cold-hearted, judgmental people who got their marbles off by destroying humans and companies who don’t hold the same opinions that they do.

    How do you people sleep at night?

    Jay

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  3. B
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 13:28:07

    read them out of curioisty and could not believe the moronic tone and bigoted comments. Everyone keeps saying my posts are a bad reflection on them.

    Please do not blame them. I don't know them. Had never heard of them until I read Dear Author. They will not be “bitch-slapping” me or hunting me down because they don't know me. What not one of wants to recognize is your unspeakable behavior of what you are doing or attempting to do to this company. WHY? For what? It is beyond belief.

    Do NOT take further issue with the publishing company “RR” whatever it stands for because I dared to speak up to something I feel is morally and ethically wrong.

    The hypocrisy makes my head throb. The way you’ve spoken in every single post has been absolutely appalling. You rage against the people here for “bashing” a company they know nothing of, yet you don’t hesitate to throw around insults about people you know nothing of. You talk of unspeakable behavior when your own is that of a spoiled five-year-old throwing a tantrum. You come down on others for insulting ethnic groups after making nasty comments about cowboys and African Americans.

    And to top it all off, you claim to be speaking up against something you find “morally and ethically wrong”. Yet the people here at DA feel that RR’s behavior towards romance readers, writers, and publishers has been, shall we say, unprofessional, and it is not okay for them to speak out against it?

    It never fails to amaze me. Every time I think I’m socially inept, I actually start interacting with people. Then I stop feeling so bad.

    (Is it just me or does our buddy Jay sound kind of like Chancery Stone?)

    ReplyReply

  4. azteclady
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 13:31:43

    Too much popcorn… anyone wants a bagel?

    Oh man, B, that’s who this reminds me off! All the caps, the bad spelling, the idiocy… Yup, looks like it. Could it be?????

    The suspense!!!

    heh.

    ReplyReply

  5. Karen Scott
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 13:37:11

    Hey you’re slacking Slippery Jay, just a measly 418 words that time.

    it takes a really big person/people to say “I/We were wrong.” And obviously, the people on this forum are not BIG.

    Don’t be silly sweetie, we’re just a bunch of readers from Bumfuck Wyoming, which is why we’re waiting for you to lead by example. Go on, you be the ‘BIG’ man/woman.

    *Crickets chirping*

    If this is your blog, I'm afraid it has brought you a whole lot more bad publicity now than this publishing company you are determined to destroy.

    Oh honey, you’re so adorable, I could eat you right up. You are truly the gift that just keeps giving, and for that I thank you.

    ReplyReply

  6. Jane
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 13:39:00

    It is indeed my blog and we welcome bad publicity!

    ReplyReply

  7. kate r
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 13:39:18

    sorry, azteclady, Kerry Allen stole your conspiracy theory before you had a chance to express it.

    ReplyReply

  8. Ann Bruce
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 13:41:31

    Slam, demoralize, condescend, judge and a thousand other adjectives would better describe what you did

    Are you sure you’re not talking about Jill Elaine Hughes/Jamaica Layne?

    And obviously, the people on this forum are not BIG.

    Actually, I’m not. I’m only five-nothing.

    And for the tenth or is it the 20th time -’ WHY? Because they spammed some authors? God, I agree, “get a rope, let's hang em.”

    Um, did you not read the first 80 or so comments in this thread? How about this one?

    Are you sure you’re a journalist? Your research skills seem to be as lacking as Brattyhack’s.

    ReplyReply

  9. azteclady
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 13:42:01

    Really?

    *scrolling up*

    Shit, kate r, you are right!

    *kicking rock and muttering expletives*

    See, not only am I a “slick” idiot, I lack originality as well.

    *sigh*

    By the way, anyone check how many keyboards Karen killed today?

    ReplyReply

  10. Karen Scott
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 13:42:50

    I won't be visiting Dear Author again.

    Anybody taking bets on this?

    ReplyReply

  11. Kerry Allen
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 13:47:31

    azteclady, im in ur intartubes, stealin ur conspiracies.

    ReplyReply

  12. SandyW
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 13:52:29

    I was wondering just what the E-Book Publisher Implosion version of Godwin's was when B said:

    (Is it just me or does our buddy Jay sound kind of like Chancery Stone?)

    We have a winner. At the point the discussion becomes suitable for Fandom Wank, rational discourse has ended. Of course, the ranting usually stops being rational early on and continues way past the Fandom Wank point. But it works for me.

    ReplyReply

  13. Jill Myles
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 13:59:37

    Duuude. This thread! Just…dude. Cannot. Look. Away.

    And FWIW, I’m shocked that ‘Dude’ is an outdated word. Because, dude! I use it all the time. And I’m not even from the valley.

    I guess this means I am not a serious writer now.

    ReplyReply

  14. MaryK
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 14:02:22

    Dude!!
    O.O

    ReplyReply

  15. Nonny
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 14:06:41

    Speaking as a reader here, the attitude of RR’s authors and their compatriots here has severely put me off the company. Sorry, but I’ve better things to do with my money than support people who sound like they are in serious need of medication.

    Dana, I should add that I exclude you from this list. Outside of your misunderstanding about the term “bodice ripper,” you’ve been nothing but friendly and calm through this whole discussion. Given the atmosphere of this conversation from your fellow authors, this impresses me, and I wish you well with the company. :)

    ReplyReply

  16. lapland
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 14:23:02

    Wow.

    An author friend pointed me to this thread. I’m a writer myself, as of yet unpublished, with a lovely agent at a major agency (if that gives me any additional credibility. Probably not).

    I don’t write romance, but I know a number of people who do, and at a very high level of craft and dedication.

    I’ve found that in general, writers are a supportive bunch. Organizations like Sisters in Crime and the RWA, online discussion and critique groups – my experiences have been way more positive than not. Most of the writers I know enjoying helping other writers.

    This is one of the saddest displays of behavior I’ve ever seen from a group of “writers.”

    Reading this thread, my early reaction was that this company, Ravenous Romance, screwed up and deserved to be taken to task. Reading further, I saw a representative of said company respond in straight-forward way and apologize for the screw-up. I must have missed a boatload of nuance along the way to account for the continued venom and “Mean Girl” pack behavior by this site’s author and fan-club.

    No one cares if you’re in MENSA. It doesn’t make you smart, and it doesn’t make you talented.

    ReplyReply

  17. Seressia
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 14:27:57

    Hey Dude–er, I mean Jane–

    How about a link at the top of this post for the new people who don’t know (what the hell they’re talking about) that this isn’t the first discussion about RR?

    ReplyReply

  18. Shiloh Walker
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 14:29:24

    Ladyslipper/Jay.

    Dear God, please don’t take this wrong, but you’re seriously hurting RR.

    There are more readers here than authors, and many of them love ebooks. But when this new press opens, a lot the readers here are going to think back on this debacle and just decide not to mess with it. That’s going to hurt a new epress, because one of the biggest sales tool is simply word of mouth.

    You’re hurting their image before they’ve even opened their doors and that, well, it kinda sucks for them. And no, I’m not saying this out of fear. Trust me. I’ve been on the epub block long enough that a new place opening up doesn’t have me shaking in my sneakers.

    I’m saying this because at this point, I really feel sorry for RR, and for you. You’ve given a whole bunch of people a great deal of entertainment, and it’s at your expense and indirectly, at RR’s expense. People are going to connect RR to you, and from where I’m sitting, that’s not a good connection to make.

    You need to just let this go, because people are just going to continue having fun at your expense.

    ReplyReply

  19. theo
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 14:35:40

    You know what, lapland? You’re absolutely right. It doesn’t “make me” a talented writer (though I’m sorry, I’ll disagree wholeheartedly on the ‘smart’ part) but to have someone come in and throw this kind of s*** at the people posting here, which includes authors, reviewers, readers of all genres:

    See above, almost ANYONE can get published contracts according to other Mensa people who post on here. Did I forget anything? Oh, yeah, talents and outside interests. Like hanging around a blog for days and jumping on other people's posts????? That's really an outside interest.

    You know what -’ you're an idiot, plain and simple. A bigoted, stupid, backwoods idiot in triple who DOES NOT HAVE A LIFE, no matter how long of a list she posts.

    I'll say it again and then no matter what you shoot back with your high=powered rifle, I'm not going to lower myself to respond. Read my lips: GET A LIFE. A REAL LIFE and then join those other idiots for some popcorn.

    along with her racial and ethnic slurs, then the discussion turns from simple discourse to watching the person who posted that comment crash and burn.

    It’s not the ‘boatload of nuance’ you missed along the way, but the idiocy of the above quoted poster who is doing nothing for RR except to drive them further into the ground because as someone else pointed out, they will now forever be associated with her diatribe.

    ReplyReply

  20. Susanna
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 14:36:06

    lapland –

    Regarding your MENSA comment. Had you actually *read* this thread, you would know WHY a few posters commented with their eligibility for MENSA.

    (hint: Scroll up to #144)

    ReplyReply

  21. Dana
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 14:38:04

    Nonny, thank you for your acknowledgement. I appreciated several of the comments received as they constructively and kindly pointed out the gap between traditional publishers and epublishers and the expectations of the readers. As mentioned before, my experience with RR has so far been nothing but positive and I hope it continues to be so. Thanks for your good wishes.

    ReplyReply

  22. Ann Bruce
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 14:40:00

    Most of the writers I know enjoying helping other writers.

    So, warning fellow writers to be wary of start-ups and encouraging them to ask questions and not just blindly go rah-rah-rah is a bad thing?

    I don't write romance, but I know a number of people who do, and at a very high level of craft and dedication.

    What does that tidbit have to do with the discussion?

    I'm a writer myself, as of yet unpublished, with a lovely agent at a major agency (if that gives me any additional credibility. Probably not).

    Not if you’re going by “lapland.”

    ReplyReply

  23. Anon Y. Mouse
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 14:40:48

    What’s funny is Slippery claims to not care that their craziness is hurting RR, but yet they came here to denounce us for supposedly doing the same.

    If you don’t care that *you’re* damaging RR, Slipper, why do you care if *we* do?

    ReplyReply

  24. Jane
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 14:52:03

    @Seressia: Well, I added a link but I’m thinking that people aren’t likely to read much of anything at this point, particularly if they are directed here from somewhere else. I mean, what would be the point of reading the thread, right?

    ReplyReply

  25. Ann Somerville
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 14:57:26

    I think, with all the trolling and hysteria, and sheer batshittery, an important question is being overlooked:

    What is kettle korn? I’ve never heard of it. [/australian]

    ReplyReply

  26. Robin
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 15:05:29

    Kettle Corn is a treat you can get at US fairs and farmer’s markets. It’s basically popcorn that is made with oil, salt, and sugar, creating a crispy, salty-sweet crust on the popcorn. It’s often made in specially-created vats, and it’s best when just made. But for addicts like myself, several companies are packaging Kettle Corn (you can buy it now at Trader Joe’s), and at least one company makes it in microwave popcorn. And you can make it at home, too. Oh, and some movie theaters serve it now, as well.

    ReplyReply

  27. theo
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 15:08:10

  28. Gennita Low
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 15:11:35

    I think it’s a Wyoming mispelling, Ann. (/Malaysian)

    ReplyReply

  29. Ann Somerville
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 15:15:18

    It's basically popcorn that is made with oil, salt, and sugar, creating a crispy, salty-sweet crust on the popcorn.

    Ah, a dieter’s best friend :) Thanks.

    Gennita, don’t they turn the ‘R’s around in Wyoming? [/didn't know you were Malaysian :) ]

    ReplyReply

  30. Jordana
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 15:37:34

    Ok, I am no author but I am a reader. I enjoy a few of you authors here, but my question to all of you author’s. Don’t you authors have anything BETTER to do then just to sit your on your computer and BITCH ABOUT ONE FREAKIN’ PUBLISHING COMPANY?!?! Many more out there DO the EXACT same thing. Some of them screw you around horribly. All authors who has left a bad comment are acting like little FOUR-YEAR OLDS!!! Kindergarten children do not even act like this. You are only giving YOURSELF a bad REP for bitching about ONE publishing company. It is NOT WORTH YOUR TIME!!! Please authors, just go back to your writing and your life, and stop running your mouth like little babies about one publishing company! Just let it go.

    ReplyReply

  31. Laura
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 15:55:44

    Jay B. Berg, Journalist, Brainerd, MN, (…) there are four residents here, two computers, one laptop, three authors and one fair-minded journalist, ME!

    Four writers crammed into a single house in Brainerd, Minnesota? Sounds like “A Prairie Home Companion” monologue material to me.

    ReplyReply

  32. MD
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 16:16:34

    Ann said, re: kettle corn -

    Ah, a dieter's best friend :) Thanks.

    You aren’t missing anything. It’s nasty stuff. Popcorn was not meant to be sweet.

    And from “Jordana” -

    Ok, I am no author but I am a reader. I enjoy a few of you authors here, but my question to all of you author's. Don't you authors have anything BETTER to do then just to sit your on your computer and BITCH ABOUT ONE FREAKIN' PUBLISHING COMPANY?!?! Many more out there DO the EXACT same thing. Some of them screw you around horribly. All authors who has left a bad comment are acting like little FOUR-YEAR OLDS!!! Kindergarten children do not even act like this. You are only giving YOURSELF a bad REP for bitching about ONE publishing company. It is NOT WORTH YOUR TIME!!! Please authors, just go back to your writing and your life, and stop running your mouth like little babies about one publishing company! Just let it go.

    Ravenous Romance certainly has an impressive number of supporters who are willing to go into near-hysterics on their behalf. I’ve never seen a group of people get this shrill over having their business policies looked into and questioned. The thing is, if it were my business being scrutinized, I would want to defend it calmly and intelligently and in a way that will reassure potential writers and readers.

    You’d think common sense would tell the owners of Ravenous Romance that such a violent reaction to criticism and doubt is not in their best interest. But maybe it doesn’t really matter, when you’re planning to produce fiction with just your most basic, prurient appeal?

    If I’m mistaken, I would love to be corrected and, please, by someone without a passionate adherence to the CAPS LOCK key. Hello, Mr. Miller or Ms. Perkins, here is your opportunity to present a saner, more lucid and united front for RR. I think you should take it.

    ReplyReply

  33. Ann Bruce
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 16:35:12

    Jordana, were you stomping your foot like my toddler-aged cousins as you typed your diatribe?

    (Sorry, folks. I couldn’t resist. With the economy in the dumps, this is cheap entertainment.)

    If I were Dalyn Miller, I would thank RR’s very vocal fans for their support, but would ask them to refrain from speaking for RR in future and let him handle PR.

    ReplyReply

  34. Anion
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 16:39:06

    Is my comment lost in the spam filter? Or was it too long?

    ReplyReply

  35. Anion
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 16:41:09

    *Throws hands in air*

    Apparently, it’s a mean, unprofessional, and terrible thing to do, to point out that new epresses are not always a good bet for authors because of how high the chances are that they will A) Not sell more than a half-dozen or so copies of their books, if they’re lucky; B) Not make any money from their work (the main result of poor sales); C) Very possibly/probably end up with nothing to show for the experience but a handful of manuscripts which are essentially unsellable due to having been published before, and the sensation of having wasted one’s time.

    Yes. Vicious, petty, cruel me. I should be ashamed of myself for saying the above, and for calmly defending myself when Jill Elaine Hughes/Jamaica Layne et al respond by calling me names, telling me I’m jealous and bitter and whatever, or ignorant, or stupid, or out for some sort of revenge, or are making this a personal argument, or am bad for not giving them a chance, or whatever freaking insert0insult0here they want to come up with.

    Jordana, don’t tell me what’s worth my time. HELPING OTHER WRITERS NOT GET SCREWED OR END UP WITH NOTHING BUT BROKEN DREAMS IS VERY, VERY WORTH MY FUCKING TIME.

    As you said yourself:

    Many more out there DO the EXACT same thing. Some of them screw you around horribly.

    YES. That is it EXACTLY. THAT IS WHY WE ARE HERE. To try and stop them. To try and help writers make informed, sensible choices about their careers. To encourage them to think of publishing as a business, not a fucking game or some sort of Hey-gang-let’s-put-on-a-show. It is a business. It’s not personal, it’s business. It’s not personal, it’s business!!

    Let me ask you something, and you tell me what you think. Say you work in the matchmaking industry (just for fun, I grabbed something.) You’re good at your work. You’ve reached some level of success (and btw, Lapland, I too have an agent at a major agency, and several books with NY houses). Maybe you’re not a millionaire, but you’re proud of what you’ve accomplished and feel strongly about your business and keeping the matchmaking industry’s reputation good.

    For example, say in the last couple of years you’ve seen several matchmaking agencies have major scandals and issues because they haven’t done proper background checks on their clients. There have been date rapes. There have been other attacks. Things have been stolen. Now, your agency hasn’t had these problems, because you have been careful to always treat it like a business. You don’t fall for a charming smile and a good line; you make sure all the paperwork and everything is in order before you send clients out on dates.

    So it would bother you, would it not, to see these other agencies treating its own clients so badly? Even worse, when reports of these incidents start hitting the news, and instead of hearing “Oh, that must be exciting” you hear “Oh, man, aren’t those the places that make girls pay to be attacked or stolen from?”

    And worst of ALL, is seeing the clients of those other, irresponsible agencies, after they had their fateful dates. Seeing their hearts broken, their money stolen. Seeing how they feel betrayed and cheated. Some of them might give up dating altogether, even though you know they’re such wonderful people there has to be a perfect person out there for them. But they made a mistake, and went with the irresponsible startup agency, because they didn’t know what to look for.

    So you start telling them. “Make sure background checks are done.” “Make sure they have you sign this particular form.” “Make sure they have this insurance policy.” “Check references.” Whatever it is. You don’t want to see more people get hurt.

    Continued…

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  36. kate r
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 16:41:21

    Jordana, I have one word for you: procrastination. And those of us who are doing NaNoWriMo are even more desperate than usual to waste time and energy on the computer. More words than ever to avoid.

    ReplyReply

  37. Anion
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 16:45:19

    (Continued from above…)

    Now say you see a new agency opening up. This agency claims they’re going to blow all the other agencies out of the water. They claim they’re going to do such an amazing job that they’ll have two weddings a month right out of the gate. Immediate love. They know what they’re doing, they insist, far better than the likes of you, and to this end they’re going to do…well, a lot of tings you’ve tried, and a lot of other agencies have tried, that didn’t work. And you know it’s pretty much impossible to have two weddings right out of the gate, and you know that, because you’ve been in this industry a long time and seen a lot of new agencies come and go, and you know how long it takes to build the business up.

    Even worse, you discover that some of the things you consider very important–experience, say, or a knowledge of what singles are really looking for–seems to be missing from this agency’s plan.

    You start to wonder. If they’re so wrong about some things, isn’t it possible they’re not right about others?

    So, on a forum or in a meeting or whatever, you simply point out that it’s always a good idea for a client to go with the agency that has a solid track record, and to remember that lost of other agencies have opened up with the insistence they were going to become millionaires within a year, and have failed, and people have been really hurt.

    You expect the matter to end there, but suddenly people–who claim they are acting on behalf of the new agency–start calling you names. They start implying you don’t know what you’re talking about. That you’re jealous and being a jerk.

    This doesn’t sit well with you, of course. You’re not here to help other agencies prosper, you’re here to make sure innocent people don’t get hurt. You attempt to explain this, and the fact that the new agency is not making a favorable impression by attacking you.

    They respond by attacking further. You start getting anonymous phone calls. You start noticing people following you around. And every time this agency’s name comes up, and you try to say something reasoned and calm, more and more people show up to insult and berate you.

    So. What sort of impression does that give you? Do you start thinking, “Well, gee, they’re such a bunch of rude jerks, they MUST know what they’re doing in this industry?”

    Or do you start thinking, “Every time I look for a responsible, professional response from you people, you scream at me. Every time I try to explain to you that I’m just thinking of the clients, you scream at me. I’m starting to wonder how you treat your clients, if you treat other people in the industry this way. I’m starting to wonder if the shocking level of unprofessionalism we’re seeing–unprofessionalism they started and keep propogating–isn’t an indication of how unprofessionally they handle their business. Already they’ve made promises that have not been kept (huge media blitz in October, anyone?) I’m starting to really WORRY about their clients, and wonder what other corners they’re cutting.”

    So. This is the situation most of us here find ourselves in. We’ve seen this trainwreck before many times. (Try gogling Triskelion Publishing, Mardi Gras Publishing, Silk’s Vault Publishing…just for starters.) In the beginning we simply pointed out that startups are not usually a good bet. A professional publisher would have given us the reasons why they’re different, not screeched and yowled and insulted. They started digging a ditch, and kept digging it.

    If you were in our shoes, what would you do? HOnestly. When you honestly felt people could get hurt if you didn’t say something. When you honestly thought you would get a professional response and got screaming and insults instead–would that leave you with a better or worse impression of the company in question?

    And what would you think was your responsibility to do in that case?

    ReplyReply

  38. Anion
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 16:50:34

    Oops, sorry everyone. My comment wasn’t coming through so I broke it up and apparently it repeated. I apologize for the confusion.

    ReplyReply

  39. azteclady
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 16:51:39

    Anion, I thought your ‘puter was hiccuping :grin:

    ReplyReply

  40. Anon Y. Mouse
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 16:51:48

    I’m gonna have to cheat on Ann Somerville and instead ask Anion to bear my internet babies.

    Here, Anion, have an intrawebz.

    ReplyReply

  41. Jane
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 16:52:23

    @Anion: Sorry for our aggressive spam filter.

    ReplyReply

  42. Bev Stephans
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 17:07:51

    RE: Ladyslipper/Jay Berg’s #191 comment: What is a ‘whack-jeaded sidkick?

    Does that come with or without the kettle corn?

    ReplyReply

  43. Shiloh Walker
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 17:20:46

    This is the situation most of us here find ourselves in. We've seen this trainwreck before many times.

    I’m going to side with Anion here. And damn it, Anion, I really want to know who you are. I swear, I keep secrets really well. :)

    Anyway, some of the epub authors who’ve been around for a while, me included, know that just because some place comes along claiming to be the best thing since sliced bread, that doesn’t mean it’s true.

    If there isn’t professionalism, there’s no chance of success.

    If there isn’t some kind of business plan, there’s no chance of success.

    Authors have every right to want to know info about a publisher they might want to do business with, and readers have every right to know what kind of business they may be turning their CC info over to.

    A professionally run publisher would expect these things.

    I cannot fault Dalyn Miller’s responses way … way… way up yonder, and in all honesty, this thread could have long since died-Miller’s response was professional enough, IMO. However, any damage control Miller accomplished was quickly undone after more people showed up to call everybody here mean girls, jealous, scared, fill in the blank.

    That’s not going to win any readers. A lot of bloggers are getting tired of being told that unless they write flowery, pretty, kind posts, that means they are mean. I’m personally getting very tired of that song and dance, even though…sob, I haven’t been called a mean girl, at least not in recent memory.

    It’s not mean to express an honest opinion and it’s not vindictive to question a new business. I’d question any new publisher I did business dealings with and I pity the naive writers who don’t think to do the same.

    Yes, there has definitely been some obnoxious behavior on both sides, but that’s going to happen. How RR, both writers and editors, respond is what is going to determine their level of professionalism. Too many of the supporters of RR aren’t really coming off as supporters with in-depth knowledge, but more like cheerleaders who are citing some cheer they’ve repeated until each of them know it by heart.

    I’m sorry, but those who are coming to show ‘support’ are just making the divide even bigger, because they come off as insulting. Yes, RR’s been insulted by some. But if they’d rise above it, behave professionally, that would do them a lot more good in the long run than all the cheerleader and rah-rah talk could ever do.

    And again, I am not saying this to be mean or out of some deep-seated fear and jealousy. I’m too lazy for either. I’m saying this because it’s almost kind of painful to see how many people have come out to try and support RR but instead end up shooting RR in the foot.

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  44. B
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 17:32:21

    Ok, I am no author but I am a reader. I enjoy a few of you authors here, but my question to all of you author's. Don't you authors have anything BETTER to do then just to sit your on your computer and BITCH ABOUT ONE FREAKIN' PUBLISHING COMPANY?!?! Many more out there DO the EXACT same thing. Some of them screw you around horribly. All authors who has left a bad comment are acting like little FOUR-YEAR OLDS!!! Kindergarten children do not even act like this. You are only giving YOURSELF a bad REP for bitching about ONE publishing company. It is NOT WORTH YOUR TIME!!! Please authors, just go back to your writing and your life, and stop running your mouth like little babies about one publishing company! Just let it go.

    I <3 the irony.

    You know that publishing companies that screw over writers are likely to screw over readers, don’t you? Readers like, oh say, yourself. Consider the way people involved with RR have been acting. With the exception of Dana, I’ve been pretty unimpressed with the responses from RR authors. Therefore I wouldn’t feel confidence in them as a writer or a reader. And perhaps neither should you. Do you want to be screwed over? No, I didn’t think so.

    So if we here question RR’s business practices, and the way they’ve behaved in response to those questions, it is for the sake of writers and of readers like you.

    No one wants a new press to fail. But neither do any of us want to see a new press do harm. And in fact if less new presses had done harm in the past, the reaction to this one would possibly be less skeptical. So I really don’t see how not talking about it is going to help the matter any. Problem is, no one here has been allowed to discuss it without a bunch of anonymous folks coming in and ranting at them in childish displays much like your own.

    But I don’t know why I’m saying all this. I’d have more luck talking to a bag of kettle corn.

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  45. Ann Somerville
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 18:08:46

    I'm gonna have to cheat on Ann Somerville and instead ask Anion to bear my internet babies.

    No problems, I’d cheat on me with Anion any day. Well said, ma’am.

    Can I just say I would be utterly mortified if any of my readers or friends behaved like ‘Jordana’ or ‘Ladyslipper’ in support of me? I know we’ve seen ever really big name authors content to watch their ‘knights in shining armour’ (I used this phrase even though ‘f**ing m****y’ is a lot more appropriate here) come over and scream and fling turds in their names, but I truly don’t understand how it doesn’t make them cringe. How could any company, author or PR person think this could ever make them look good?

    More to the point, are the latest trollettes actually convinced they can change hearts and minds by screeching abuse at us? Dana won more friends with a few polite and humble comments than the combined weight of Jill Elaine Hughes, Sephira Giron, Dalyn Miller, and the tribe of poo flingers put together.

    I don’t think they believe it will work. I think this is about sucking up to an as yet unnamed individual, and proving their loyalty, just as it was in a recent case with a certain Big Name Author. In which case, ‘ladies’, you’ve done your bit. Run home to your mistress, lick her shoes and get a pat. You’ve pissed on the lampposts, and made your existence known. The firehose of history will soon erase the smell.

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  46. Dana
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 19:07:46

    If anyone has any other sites they’d recommend for those of us interested in researching the various erotica/romance genres and demarcations between them, I’d very much appreciate the recommendations. I did think Sherrilyn Kenyon’s stuff was erotic romance (romance with lots of fairly explicit sex), so…much to learn.

    Just tell me I haven’t been wrong about ROMANCING THE STONE being the quintessential romantic movie all these years…cause we loves it, we does, my precioussss.. :-)

    Waving a little white flag and still waiting for some damn kettle corn.

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  47. Shiloh Walker
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 19:18:47

    Dana, your best bet to really get the differences between romance and erotic romance would be to pick up a couple of erotic romances. Erotic romance tends to use a lot more blunt language and a good erotic romance should have a heightened sense of sexual tension and more sex than the typical romance, however, it is a romance, not just sex scenes strung together.

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  48. azteclady
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 19:32:09

    Dana, I would probably check out the established epubs–Samhain, Ellora’s Cave, Loose Id, to name just the top three. Check their rating system, buy a few of their titles, you’ll get the gist in no time I’m sure.

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  49. Jill Myles
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 19:45:18

    Dana! Here’s my sliding scale of sexiness for some big name print authors:

    Most Erotic
    Emma Holly
    Lora Leigh
    Angela Knight
    Nalini Singh
    Sherrilyn Kenyon
    Lisa Kleypas
    Julie Garwood
    LaVyrle Spencer
    Least Erotic

    Another thing to remember about romance now is that mildly sensual stuff (Julie Garwood, Jude Deveraux, etc) was the norm a while back, but when the vampire romances and erotica started hitting the market, the ‘average’ romance got a lot steamier.

    Nowdays your ‘average’ romance is going to be much, much hotter. Hence why everyone is all “NO! Sherrilyn Kenyon is just regular romance, not erotic!” Ten-plus years ago, she would have made everyone blush. Now? Everyone’s all “Yeah, well you should read the latest Sarah McCarty!”

    BTW – I think you have a great attitude and I admire that!

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  50. Robin
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 20:57:11

    The Romance Wiki is also a wonderful resource for those who want to know more about the different subgenres of Romance. On the subgenre page, they even cover both erotic Romance and erotica.

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  51. Dana
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 22:07:06

    Thanks, all! A great starting point. Jill, your list is great – I was relieved to see Sherrilyn on it, but your point re: how the sex bar has been raised makes sense. I’ve bought hard copies of a lot of stuff (I’m a self-confessed paranormal romance/thriller junkie – LOVE Kelli Armstrong’s Women of the Otherworld series) because I just plain love books, so I need to hie myself hence and support the market I’m entering by buying some eBooks. I’ve heard good things about Ellora’s Cave (from Holly at RR, actually) so will start there. And I just like the name Samhain, so I’ll pop over there too. :-)

    Robin, the Romance Wiki was a great suggestion, thank you!

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  52. Dana
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 22:33:02

    Okay, after reading up at Romance Wiki and Ellora’s Cave, I’m satisfied I’m writing things that fall both in the erotic romance category as defined by both sites and also something that falls more into something along the lines of EC’s Exotica line. I am loving the Romance Wiki pages.

    So now can I ask for a couple of favorite e-author suggestions? I saw Shiloh at EC, so Shiloh, what would your favorite of your own works be?

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  53. Shiloh Walker
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 22:38:16

    Uh…I’m a terrible person to ask. I think everything I write sucks. Hmmmm….not exactly the most inspiring answer, I guess.

    Seems most people either enjoy Her Best Friend’s Lover or the first Hunter book the most, Hunters: Declan & Tori. Or if you like really odd, maybe Vicious Vixen over at Samhain Publishing.

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  54. azteclady
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 22:40:57

    I can recommend both Vicious Vixen and Guilty Needs, from Shiloh. And Vanessa Jaye’s Felicity Stripped. And Bonnie Dee’s The Countess Takes a Lover.

    And I’m gonna shut up now :grin:

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  55. Robin
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 22:46:53

    Dana, one of my favorite Samhain series is the Shelly Laurenston’s Pack Challenge series. Here’s my review of the third book, which treats the whole series to some extent. Also Jane and Jayne have reviewed lots of ebooks here on DA. Just click on the “ebooks” tag at the top of the home page.

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  56. Dana
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 22:47:02

    Sweet! I was also intrigued by the Dragon’s Warrior..of course, it’s available in print. Which sort of negates the point of me buying eBooks… Oh, sweet, sweet printed temptation…

    OKay. Gonna start with Vicious Vixen, The Hunters book, and Felicity Stripped. I’m getting two ePublishers that way. Then, next budget round, the Bonnie Dee and the Dragon’s Warrior and GUilty Needs. I might have to get Dragon’s Warrior in print. I love to read when I’m walking and am not sure how feasible that is with a Kindle. Which I need to get too. Sadly I remember when I SWORE I’d never give up my IBM Selectric…

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  57. Dana
    Nov 13, 2008 @ 22:51:46

    Thanks, Robin, just saw your recommendations. Thanks for the link to the review and the tip on the reviews here. I confess I have only read a couple of the threads. :-)

    Good night, all!

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  58. Ann Bruce
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 00:54:45

    @Dana – The EC Exotica line is actually straight erotica, not erotic romance, so I wouldn’t use titles in that line as a guide.

    As for Emma Holly, I consider her contemporaries to be more romantic erotica, not erotic romance. They are essentially erotica with some romantic elements, just like the Black Lace books. (BTW, don’t be fooled by the “Erotic Romance” on the BL books. They’re misleading.) Personally, when I read her contemporaries with the expectation of them being erotic romances, I was sorely disappointed because there seemed very little emotional payoff. However, once I stopped reading the labels on her books, I enjoyed them as erotica. (Am I confusing you?)

    Holly’s historicals, however, I do consider to be erotic romances. I suggest reading the Midnight trilogy.

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  59. Alisha Rai
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 02:32:42

    @Anion: If you tell me who you are, I will go out and buy your backlist in triplicate, bring you a mochacinno, and maybe even knit you a sweater. Plus, you’ll be on my holiday card list. Just think about it. Take your time.

    @Dana: Emma Holly isn’t really erotic romance, but since I am rather confused as to RR’s definition of romance, it may very well be what you are looking for. EC and Samhain are excellent places to start. Just start downloading.

    Sigh, this is what happens when I “get a life” and don’t read a thread all day. I miss all the fun! Forget this life nonsense.

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  60. Anion
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 05:06:33

    Wow, Alisha, I’m really, really touched and flattered, and pleased–more than you can imagine–that you enjoy my comments, and I would be honored to get holiday cards (and what I’m sure would be a beautiful sweater) from you. :-) But one of the reasons I keep the pseudonym is so I can’t be accused of saying the things I say here just to “suck up to readers/bloggers/get them to buy [my] books.”

    Whatever other accusations may be leveled against me (as is often said about others who comment here), that one at least is one I can defend against. :-)

    But really, thank you.

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  61. Gin
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 07:32:25

    Ok, since I last read this thread 24 hours ago it went batshit crazy and has now gone very reasonable and informative about erotic romance, excellent.

    I would however still like to add a couple of things the drinking game.

    ANYONE POSTING FOUR CONSECUTIVE WORDS WITH CAPS LOCK (I'll exempt Anion as she's been attacked more than most and remained calm and reasonable under extreme pressure)

    My all time favourite

    “How do you people sleep at night?!”

    Well as a regular reader of Dear Author I sleep just fine, often falling asleep counting dead puppies, because obviously, being grateful for a site that warns readers and authors about unethical or potentially unsound business practices means I am an evil and perverse individual.

    PS. Shiloh, you're mean

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  62. Shiloh Walker
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 08:23:59

    PS. Shiloh, you're mean

    Oh, hey! Cool, now I feel like I can get admission into the secret club of mean girl bloggers. Uh… there is a secret club, right?

    :)

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  63. Nora Roberts
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 08:25:55

    Wow.

    Am I too late for popcorn?

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  64. Emmy
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 09:14:26

    Shiloh is Very Mean. She Teases and Taunts and Gives Hints, but rarely Shares *pout*

    “How do you people sleep at night?!”

    I don’t sleep at night. I work, and it’s usually quite boring from…oh, maybe midnight til 4am, and I has nothing better to do than waste corporate cash by galivanting online. I know, I know…the things I get paid to do. Sucks, I tell ya.

    I do, however, sleep during the day just fine.

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  65. Jane
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 09:40:32

    Just as an aside, I don’t know that Felicity Stripped Bare or Bonnie Dee’s books are really erotic romance but more erotica. My understanding of the Samhain categories are that “Red Hots” are erotic romance.

    There is problem with reading just erotic romance (or what is labeled as such) to ascertain what it is because I feel like bad plotting/failure to build characterization can make erotica read like porn or erotic romance read like porn.

    There has been an uncomfortable blending of erotica and porn with romance that dilutes the romance brand and subjects romance readers to further scorn and dismissal. It’s why I am irked that a publisher who promotes themselves in their name as selling romance doesn’t seem to know the first thing or care about the genre itself.

    Writing genre fiction necessarily requires an understanding of the genre.

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  66. Shiloh Walker
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 09:43:05

    I read Felicity Stripped Bare, Jane. IMO, I’d say it’s erotic romance.

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  67. Angela James
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 09:49:45

    Okay, I have to jump in here. Neither Felicity Stripped Bare or most of Bonnie Dee’s work are erotic romance. Felicity Stripped Bare is a contemporary romance, and while it’s sexy, it’s not erotic romance. I’m sorry, it’s just not or I would certainly have sold it as such in a hot minute, because, the sad truth is people look at those categories first and buy there to start, so yeah, I’d have loved it to be in erotic romance. But so not :P Bonnie Dee’s work varies, but hers is usually also just sexy in whichever genre she’s writing in.

    However, don’t let that stop you from buying them, both authors have great talent and are fabulous reads!

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  68. Jane
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 09:51:40

    @Angela James:

    Sorry for my mischaracterization of Felicity Stripped Bare.

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  69. Angela James
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 09:54:44

    @Jane. Clearly you’re evil and must be destroyed.

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  70. Jane
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 09:56:57

    @Angela James: Get to it then.

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  71. Alisha Rai
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 10:21:55

    @anion “(and what I'm sure would be a beautiful sweater)” from you. :-)

    Eh, don’t be too sure. The holiday cards though. They are awesome.

    “But one of the reasons I keep the pseudonym is so I can't be accused of saying the things I say here just to “suck up to readers/bloggers/get them to buy [my] books.”

    Damn principles. Excuse me while I expire of curiousity :).

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  72. kerry
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 10:22:15

    Reading this thread is way better than working on a rainy Friday. Thank you all for the entertainment!

    Wow.

    Am I too late for popcorn?

    Ha! Funniest post here.

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  73. Dana
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 12:24:00

    I am keeping a list of all these recommendations and will be working my way through it. My understanding of erotic romance is it has to have that emotional payoff and the sex has to move the story along rather than just be there for the sake of sex scenes. My favorite quote in this thread was something along the lines of ‘it takes more than a few sex scenes and bare chests to make a romance.’ I heartily agree.

    Ellora’s Cave seems to have the Romantica with the emotional pay-offs and the Exotica, which is more erotic than romance, so the readers have the option of both. Am I intepreting this correctly?

    It also seems one woman’s erotic romance is another woman’s sexy romance, so I guess some of it depends on the reader and what they’re looking for. I am very much appreciating all of your opinions on this and am looking forward to reading Felicity Stripped Bare.

    And yes, much downloading is occuring this weekend. I really think I’m gonna need to suck it up and get a Kindle. I wonder if I can walk and read a Kindle at the same time…

    Shiloh, I read the excert from Dragon’s Warrior – loved it! I can’t wait to read the whole book. Dark and sexy!

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  74. Robin
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 12:28:55

    There is problem with reading just erotic romance (or what is labeled as such) to ascertain what it is because I feel like bad plotting/failure to build characterization can make erotica read like porn or erotic romance read like porn.

    I agree, which is why I referred Dana to the Romance Wiki to start. But still, once you start reading, unless you know the generic distinctions, it can be difficult to discern what is what when things get erotic, because a book intended to be ER may come off as E or P (or vice versa).

    Structurally speaking, I’d offer the basic definition of Romance: that it focuses on the emotional journey of a love relationship that ends happily for the couple. Then I’d add that in ER, this emotional relationship is often communicated primarily through the sexuality and sexual relationship of the protags. The farther away from the emotional development of the characters and the relationship a story goes, the farther away from Romance, erotic or otherwise, it veers.

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  75. Dana
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 12:34:17

    “Structurally speaking, I'd offer the basic definition of Romance: that it focuses on the emotional journey of a love relationship that ends happily for the couple. Then I'd add that in ER, this emotional relationship is often communicated primarily through the sexuality and sexual relationship of the protags. The farther away from the emotional development of the characters and the relationship a story goes, the farther away from Romance, erotic or otherwise, it veers.”

    Robin, thank you – that’s extremely helpful. Now how the heck do you pull quotes from these comments without cutting and pasting? :-)

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  76. Robin
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 12:39:22

    Dana, I always just cut and paste and then use the blockquote tab above this box. If there’s another way, I’m too slow to figure it out, lol.

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  77. Dana
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 12:45:32

    Testing… So I just cut and pasted what you said above and hit blockquote. Let’s see if it works!

    Dana, I always just cut and paste and then use the blockquote tab above this box. If there's another way, I'm too slow to figure it out, lol.

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  78. Lori
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 13:58:30

    Something I don’t understand… why is RR signing up untested writers for multi-book deals? I’m just starting and trying to get my foot in an e-publishing door and nobody I’ve submitted to is interested in anything speculative. Why would they make such an interesting and seemingly nonsensicle choice?

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  79. Dana
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 16:08:58

    Hi, Lori,

    I’ve been published in other writing fields/genres, but I got my deal with RR via submitting a short story, which they liked and wanted expanded into a novel. I signed a contract for that, then sent some outlines/proposals for other ideas I had. I had also sent them my mystery novel, which has a romantic subplot in it, as another sample of my writing. I’m not sure this answers your question adequately, but hope it helps at least a bit.

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  80. Jackie Barbosa
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 16:21:06

    Something I don't understand… why is RR signing up untested writers for multi-book deals? I'm just starting and trying to get my foot in an e-publishing door and nobody I've submitted to is interested in anything speculative. Why would they make such an interesting and seemingly nonsensicle choice?

    I don’t know if it’s nonsensical to sign untested writers to multi-book deals–print publications do multiple book deals with debut authors fairly regularly, although they usually have at least one completed manuscript in hand at the time the offer is made. (My own first contract with Kensington was only for a single book in large part because it was a novella anthology, and only one of the three novellas was completed at the time they made their offer.) But my impression is that most print publishers do either two or three-book deals with debut authors.

    So that, in and of itself, doesn’t bother me.

    What I do find interesting (and potentially worrisome) about RR’s business model is that they seem to think they can put out one book a day, 365 days a year right out of the gate, and sustain sales on those releases sufficiently to allow them to continue contracting new material at the advance rate of $1 per page. Logic tells me that’s a very (and possibly overly) ambitious goal. Most epublishers start small, releasing a couple of books a week, building sales and readership, and then gradually adding more releases. I’m not sure how many releases per week the larger epubs like Samhain and Ellora’s Cave are doing now, but even if it works out to 365 per year (or more), they certainly didn’t start releasing that many on day one.

    I’ll also say that I suspect this plan (365 releases per year) accounts for the perhaps somewhat overzealous campaign for submissions. If you’re going to release one book per day from your first day in business, you’re going to need a lot of books “in the hopper” well before day one. That means you need quite a number of books contracted, edited, and cover arted (yeah, I just made that up) well before you open your doors, and many more waiting in the wings.

    I won’t say it can’t work. It might. But it seems dubious at best to believe that an epublisher can tap into a new market for readers of erotica/erotica romance (which seems to be their stated plan, and judging by some of the genre-boundary crossing on display from their authors, they may genuinely have reason to believe they’ve got a formula for doing that) when the economy is this precarious. It’s not that I think books can’t or won’t sell in a recession–they can and do because they’re relatively cheap entertainment–but people will probably be more likely to stick to the tried and true, meaning publishers and authors they’re already familiar with, rather than dropping their money on an unknown.

    I wish RR well, I really do, although I have to admit, their “line” names alone along with some of the book titles I’ve seen/heard (Sexstrology? Really?)have pretty much already turned me off. But then, I’m not the market they’re looking to tap (existing readers of the romance genre). So maybe that’s a good sign for them ;).

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  81. Should be writing
    Nov 14, 2008 @ 22:02:45

    I have a question for Dana and the other authors who have gone with RR given the firestorm that’s surrounding them. What drew you to submit to RR? And why did you go with them instead of the many other electronic publishers?

    Why do I ask? Because there are many (60+ I believe was the given number) publishers who publish romance and erotic romance, and I can guarantee you that most of them (unless they’re closed to subs) are looking for new voices and new authors.

    Their answers may actually add a bit to the conversation. Sadly, at this point, the lack of answers offered by the PR person to questions posted in a public forum and the overwhelming volume of the shrill voices trying to “defend” this publisher have told me it’s not somewhere I want to be.

    For the sake of the new authors, I hope they do well. Because it’s hell when a publisher implodes and takes your books with it. That’s not something I’d wish on any author. No matter how shrill or ultra-vocal.

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  82. Dana
    Nov 15, 2008 @ 13:24:23

    Hi, Should Be Writing (and so should I – that cracked me up, btw!).

    I can’t speak for any of the other authors, but I can tell you why I went with Ravenous. I’d written a short story that a friend of mine, also a writer, read. She’s worked with Holly before and thought I should submit it to Ravenous. I did, got a positive response, and then had the opportunity to meet Holly and Lori when they were at RWA in San Francisco. I really liked them on both a personal and professional level.

    I was fine with contract; I have no expectations in terms of what I may or may not make in the long run. Having been published by a small press for my mystery novel, I have very realistic and low expectations. :-) But, as with the small press, I’ve received quick feedback when I’ve asked for it and been treated in a courteous, professional and friendly manner.

    I’ve never worked with an ePublisher before because of my formerly snotty ‘books must be hard copy!’ attitude. I don’t have any basis for comparison, but so far I’ve gotten no reason to regret working with RR. On a strictly creative note, it’s been great. Heck, no time for writer’s block!

    I am really excited at discovering this whole ePublishing world and the other presses out there – I love to read as much, if not more, than I love to write, and there’s just a whole new world of authors out there, starting with the ones recommended by some of the people here. I did discover my work computer server doesn’t think I should go on Ellora’s Cave. I’m waiting to see if I get called on the carpet for inappropriate use of computer during work hours. :-)

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  83. Just Because It’s Got the Name, Doesn’t Mean It’s the Same | Dear Author: Romance Book Reviews, Author Interviews, and Commentary
    Nov 16, 2008 @ 12:05:33

    [...] to answer the question before it’s asked, yes, this post is partially a response to the ongoing Ravenous Romance discussion.  And no, I don’t know for sure that the books they end up publishing are going to be [...]

  84. Sybil
    Nov 17, 2008 @ 15:53:03

    I miss all the fun. ::pout::

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  85. Another Author
    Nov 19, 2008 @ 13:40:08

    I'm keeping my name private here because as someone else pointed out, it's just a smart idea considering the atmosphere. And I know some of you who have responded personally, which makes this all the more shocking to me. I'd like to preface this by saying that I am an author writing erotic romance and erotica under a pen name. I also have publications under my real name in horror. I signed on with RR to write a series.

    Someone asked a very valid question:

    What drew you to submit to RR? And why did you go with them instead of the many other electronic publishers?”

    I went with RR after my agent pointed it out for a story I wrote. The reasons are many, but they revolved around their business practices and model. I am a business woman first, author second. My craft is my product. Knowing what they have in the works and what they've invested in launching this publisher, combined with their collective expertise and contacts makes it a promising endeavor. These are NOT novices starting a new epub, as some here seem to think. Real research makes that clear to anyone who cares to do the work.
    Why did I choose them over others? I've worked with other epubs and have found them lacking in various respects. No one publisher is perfect. Some have undesirable covers, others have poor author support, and still others have shoddy editing. The research that I did on RR made me think that they're a smart gamble. Yes, I've had to deal with the failings of other publishers, which makes me even more adamant about knowing all that I can before trying something new.

    Furthermore, my experience with them so far has been wonderful. They're professional, courteous, and helpful. I honestly do expect to see them succeed. Of course, there are always unforeseen disasters. But trying to beat down the company name before it gets started and without an educated opinion only serves to make this section of the industry look like a group of amateurs.
    I'm surprised how many people on here take what one of the authors says and runs with it, posting that the author is the spokesperson for the publisher. Do you all consider yourselves official spokespeople for the publishers you're published with? I don't. I know that my behavior reflects on them, but if I say that I think X publisher is the greatest ever, that doesn't mean that the publisher is claiming to be the greatest ever. That may not have been what was intended by the comments, but that's how it comes across when you read it from the outsider's perspective.

    I'm further surprised at the immature behavior here on both sides. Attacks and Defenses. Is this really how everyone wants to be seen by readers? The number of people who read but don't post to this thread is probably very high. I'm sure that there are names on here being jotted on personal “do not read” lists of readers, editors, agents, etc. Like it or not, this type of thing does influence others. Some of the comments and name-calling here really should be in private emails. The amount of pure hatred spewed on this thread is astounding and seemingly unfounded. It looks to me, as someone who doesn't know EVERYONE on here that some of the comments are posted by people who either have a stake in the competition or a personal problem with the commenters they've slammed.

    Here’s to hoping that everyone enjoys eating their popcorn and watching RR’s progress. Maybe we can all come back in a year and compare notes and earnings. (Don’t crucify me yet. It was a joke!)

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  86. Fae
    Nov 20, 2008 @ 17:14:35

    Hmm. I thought Mr. Miller insisted that Brattyhack posted and spammed the NaNo boards and NaNo authors without RR’s approval or knowledge. But Lori Perkins is saying it was her idea…

    http://ravenousromance.blogspot.com/2008/11/national-novel-writing-month-nanowrimo.html

    Huh. The December opening is looking more and more interesting every day. Any kettle korn left, you guys?

    ReplyReply

  87. Ann Bruce
    Nov 20, 2008 @ 18:56:13

    Do you all consider yourselves official spokespeople for the publishers you're published with?

    Most of us make it clear we don’t speak for the presses that contract us because they have official PR departments and reps. And, more importantly, most of us don’t go around making claims and comments like the ones made by Jill Elaine Hughes/Jamaica Layne.

    I'm sure that there are names on here being jotted on personal “do not read” lists of readers, editors, agents, etc.

    Another Anonymous RR Author obviously didn’t bother to read the comments made by the PR rep hired by RR to do damage control.

    At this point, I’m feeling a little sorry for Dalyn Miller because his job keeps getting harder and harder.

    ReplyReply

  88. Ann Somerville
    Nov 20, 2008 @ 19:16:00

    I'm sure that there are names on here being jotted on personal “do not read” lists of readers, editors, agents, etc.

    Oh goody.

    Nothing like a publisher’s authors threatening blacklists all over the place, to make the publisher look like the place to be.

    Of course making threats anonymously is so very classy, don’t you think?

    ReplyReply

  89. Dana
    Nov 20, 2008 @ 21:59:42

    Mine is the first short story up December 1st. If anyone here DOES end up reading it, I would love your feedback, particularly regarding what genre you’d consider it best labeled. If you’d rather not read it, understood.

    Once again, thanks to all who’ve been so forthcoming with recommendations, advice and constructive critique.

    Must stop, have a cat sitting on my arms… :-)

    ReplyReply

  90. The Not-so-deep Thoughts » TT #35: WTF 2008
    Dec 17, 2008 @ 08:12:32

    [...] 13 Ravenous Romance courtesy of Jill Elaine Hughes/Jamaica Layne. Some writers need to learn marketing departments [...]

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