Nov 7 2007
Twilight Fantasies Publications Closes After Six Months
I received a note in my inbox that a new ebook publisher, Twilight Fantasies Publications, have officially closed their doors. The house opened in May and closed this month. Editors, authors, cover artists are unpaid. When asked about payment issues and reversion of rights, authors have been ridiculed. It is rumored that the house could be filing for bankruptcy.
Aspiring authors might want to check out what Angela James of Samhain Publishing had to say about finding the right epublishing house.
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Nov 07, 2007 @ 21:47:30
Thanks for posting, Jane. We definitely need more of this type blogging. Hopefully we will all be more careful in our selection of publishers and in the process of blogging and avoiding these unscrupulous pubs maybe the e publishing world will become less appealing to those who would take advantage!
Nov 07, 2007 @ 21:48:05
There is never an excuse for total lack of communication. I would warn authors to beware of these telling signs:
Emails that are never answered,
Questions that are never responded to,
Readers don’t receive free promo items,
Waiting for months on submissions,
Owners promoting their own books exclusively,
Website that aren’t updated,
Release dates that are not available,
Etc…..
I could go on forever about those dangers but hindsight is 20/20.
I was an author who thought I would stick with one publisher. I thought that would be easier considering that I work constantly- don’t do that. I put all my eggs in the proverbial basket and they were dumped all over the barnyard!
Nov 07, 2007 @ 21:57:24
I have never even heard of that publisher.
Nov 07, 2007 @ 22:11:55
Honestly, I’m not sure waiting months for a submission should really qualify as a “warning sign” since many publishers do have long wait periods.
Another warning sign, however, is the lack of statements and pay checks. Big red flag there.
I do want to stress, though, that regardless of the “bad apples” of the epublishing world, there ARE good epublishers out there.
Nov 08, 2007 @ 02:13:10
Yes, waiting months on submissions is not a warning sign. It’s part of the job.
And here’s another tip: stop submitting to startup publishers with no experience and no track record, that you’ve never heard of. It’s not a good way to “get in on the ground floor”. It’s not a good way to get a fast acceptance so you can finally call yourself published. It’s a good way to lose your rights, waste your time, and set yourself up for a lot of heartbreak.
When you need to open a bank account, do you go to a bank you’ve heard of, or to “Bob’s Bank” that just opened up down the street but gee, looks like they could really use some customers? You go to the bank you’ve heard of. So why are you putting your money in the Bob’s Banks of the internet?
Nov 08, 2007 @ 07:02:04
I should clarify since so many people are reading only one point in my comment. If there is a call for submissions and NONE of them are being read, even by in-house authors, there is something wrong. And if a declaration for submitted authors to be notified by a certain date about their story and it never happens, that is also wrong.
Nov 08, 2007 @ 07:04:39
Ordinarily I would agree that waiting months on a submission would not be a bad sign with the exception of the following. Most publishers will give you some idea as to how long you may expect to wait. Publishers even encourage authors to contact them after a certain time period to check on their submissions. I think the comment above in regards to waiting months on a submission being a warning sign was in reference to submissions that go well past the expected wait time and beyond. And then when the author questions about the wait they are basically stonewalled.
In regards to never submitting to a start up publisher, that is of course the safest and best thing to do. However, all publishers had to start somewhere and had to attract new authors to their writing stable. Maybe we should be more aware of how they attract these authors. Is there one thing these unscrupulous publishers all have in common when doing this?
What’s the common denominator here? Or is there one?
Seeing that a publisher belongs to an organization such as RWA or EPIC does not guarantee success either. And some of these organizations have been supposedly strengthening their membership requirements. But in my opinion, the way they are strengthening them does not benefit the author in so far as protecting us from bad publishers. Maybe publisher memberships should require credit checks. Now that is something that would truly be helpful! And go even further by requiring these credit checks be updated every six months.
Nov 08, 2007 @ 08:32:44
Yes, all publishers had to start somewhere (although why it’s a writer’s responsibility to give them material so they can do so is beyond me). Most of the good ones started by working for an established company first. They didn’t have to “attract” new authors because they already knew them. Samhain, for example, started out with some big names already in their stable. Why? Because they’d already made contacts in the industry. They knew what they were doing. They had experience.
If someone you know well and have worked with in the past is starting a new company, that’s different. You can judge their experience, knowledge, and professionalism and make an educated decision. But don’t be a guinea pig to a new publisher of whose principals you’ve never heard.
I don’t think they’re all unscrupulous, btw. Just inexperienced. Not that that makes them a safer bet for your work.
Nov 08, 2007 @ 09:16:18
That might not be “a responsibility” as much as others have pointed out how writers want to be published. I like what one person has said before about not putting all your eggs in one basket that sounded like good advice. I still like my crappy website rule of thumb.
Speaking of crappy websites, anyone else notice love you divine lately?
Nov 08, 2007 @ 09:29:03
December…very sound advice. I wish more people would listen. I am a good friend of a small press publisher who made a lot of industry contacts and published her first few books without really “advertising” for submissions. She invited authors she knew to submit and once she had her infrastructure in place, then started branching out. She’s now been in business for over 15 years. It’s a model that works on the big and small scale.
I also wish that writers would make their goal not to “be published” but to “publish well.” I’m not necessarily talking about big publishers and big advances…that’s not my point. I’m just talking about making sound business decisions that look to the future in a realistic way. This business is hard. There are no shortcuts.
Nov 08, 2007 @ 09:30:53
Not putting your eggs all in one basket is definitely the way to go in this business!!! And as for Twilight Fantasies…some of the authors knew the publisher and liked her and signed on. And as a result some authors followed those authors they knew. I’m certainly guilty of that. BUT!!! won’t be again. LOL…What’s that old saying? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me!!! Next time I get screwed I’ll make sure I’m at least kissed!
Nov 08, 2007 @ 09:47:12
Julie Leto
Word!!!
Nov 08, 2007 @ 11:33:41
It can’t be said enough.
I think there should be a carefully defined difference between liking someone as a friend and supporting them, and liking someone’s business acumen and supporting them. Publishing is your business.
Now, if you like them because they’re savvy about business and that’s why you submit, fire away! But I’ve heard so many authors say that the publisher/editor/whoever was their friend, they were nice, etc. etc. and that’s why they subbed. I don’t think “nice” and “liking” someone are always the most important things. Sure, there are people who like me and think I’m a swell gal. But there are lots of people who don’t. Maybe I was impatient, abrupt, didn’t give them an answer they liked. But in the end, did I do my job and do I know my job? That’s what should be important to the author. Can the publisher/editor do their jobs and do them well?
Nov 08, 2007 @ 11:39:02
Well said, Angela! This is a business and we need to treat it as such. Personalities should never enter into it. Unfortunately sometimes they do.
But with all these recent publishing failures, I think authors are going to be more vigilant. I know I most certainly will!
Nov 08, 2007 @ 11:43:34
For me, if a publisher has an unprofessional-looking website (which usually leads to sub-par bookcovers), it tells me a few things. Number one, they don’t have the money to hire decent web designers and/or cover artists (and editors, most likely). If you really wanted to go places, wouldn’t you want to put your best foot forward?
I believe ePublishing as a whole has been “ridiculed” in the past because of these publishers who let their 14 y/o sons design their websites and have a minimal-at-best knowledge of Photoshop. It tells me they are in it because the “publisher” needs quick, extra cash, not for the “long haul” or for the love of the biz. And they will never be any sort of competition with the Big Boys of New York.
When I was a “green” author (which wasn’t that long ago), I submitted to a couple of houses I wish now I hadn’t. But perhaps they served their purpose, because I am now much more shrewd when it comes to submitting my work.
This is one of the reasons why I was so impressed with Resplendence Publishing (a new ePub) before they even opened their doors. Professional-looking site, a business plan, a well-known cover artist, plans for print, etc. I haven’t submitted anything to them (as I’m still gun-shy with start-up companies), but they are a shining example of what a start-up publisher should strive to be like. Only time will tell if they have the stamina to keep up with established e-publishers such as Samhain and EC.
~~Becka
Nov 08, 2007 @ 11:47:40
As others have said, it’s not whether the publishers are nice people — it’s whether they know how to run a business. I submitted material to a start-up house, but I had good reason to think that the owners understood how to run a publishing company. Three years on, I don’t regret my decision, but I knew at the time there was a risk involved in going with a start-up, even with people who knew what they were doing. I think that today even someone with a good business plan and a lot of experience is going to find it a lot tougher to carve out a niche for themselves.
Nov 08, 2007 @ 12:19:15
I think there should be a carefully defined difference between liking someone as a friend and supporting them, and liking someone's business acumen and supporting them. Publishing is your business.
I have to admit this is an issue that’s been bugging me just a little bit since it was suggested somebody felt Loose-Id winning the Triskelion contracts was better for the authors because they knew the owners of Loose-Id and they’re good people. I’m sure they are, but I think the intimacy of epublishing has made it very difficult to separate personal and professional decisions. Nobody should ever make a business decision because somebody’s a friend, or a friend of a friend.
As to start-up companies, I always feel a little hypocritical warning against submitting to them because I was a launch author for Samhain. But going in I knew Crissy Brashear wasn’t somebody who just woke up one day and decided to be an epub, or one of a group of orphaned and/or rejected authors who decided to do it themselves. She had experience, know-how, and a proven track record. And yes, Angie was a friend before she became my editor. But she isn’t my editor because she’s my friend. She’s my editor because she’s a savvy reader whose judgment I respected and trusted well before she had a title. I have many friends I wouldn’t in a million years allow to have any control over my career.
Is there one thing these unscrupulous publishers all have in common when doing this? What's the common denominator here? Or is there one?
I think whether unscrupulous or well-intentioned, the least successful epublishing ventures will probably be the ones begun by frustrated writers who have found other doors closed to them. Writing and publishing go hand-in-hand, but they require two different kinds of people with different priorities, different skillsets, different almost everything.
Another thing that bugs me—when you look at a new start-up epublisher and see books by authors whose names you recognize, don’t assume that because multi-published authors have signed with them, that they’re obviously reputable. Check out the blogs of those authors if they have them, look through some entries, check out their blog rolls. If those initial authors are close friends of the new publisher, it might be more of a “couldn’t say no” favor situation than an endorsement.
Nov 08, 2007 @ 12:53:31
Adding to what Shannon said about multi-published authors at a new house — it can also be a case of having something that isn’t suitable for their usual publisher, and needing to find another publisher. Loose Id has a tight limit on short stories, so some of my shorts go elsewhere. They don’t do non-romance titles, so there are a couple of things in my Not-In-Progress pile that I’ll have to find another publisher for if/when they’re finished. Someone else could get a yen to do m/m, but be at a house that only publishes m/f.
Now, I’ll check out any publisher as best I can before submitting, but the very reason why I’d be looking for another publisher means that I’ll be going in cold to some extent.
Nov 08, 2007 @ 13:02:52
Continued on next rock, I should do something about this mouse…
If I’ve submitted to a new publisher, it may be because I’ve got something I can’t readily sell elsewhere, and they seem to check out well enough to be worth taking the risk rather than leaving it in the trunk. It’s not necessarily because I have inside knowledge that makes it clear they’re okay.
Nov 08, 2007 @ 13:21:03
An author can definitely start his/her own epublishing company and turn it into a money-making business rather than a sink-hole, however, that author’s priorities is what will make the difference i.e. is the author using the company to launch his/her own career dumping all the responsibility in the running of the company on others or is she assuming a hands on approach even if it means her career is stalled in the process?
It’s not only business sense, but also the willingness from the owner to treat the enterprise as what it is: a REAL business that will require 100% of her effort and energy to succeed.
Additionally, establishing an epublishing house requires money… and a lot more than people can ever imagine. Just setting up a professional looking website is not enough. As someone mentioned, you need the money to pay a professional artist for the covers. You need editors (real ones, not the people that have been proofing your books for typos). You need to invest in promotion. It can be a money sink in the beginning, and hard work, as with any business.
An author that is looking for a publisher should definitely do the legwork and research any publisher(s) he/she may be interested in submitting work to. Additionally, given the current state of the epublishing industry, any author will be better off having his/her eggs spread out. You never know.
Nov 08, 2007 @ 13:34:18
I’m going to say something nice about them, but I don’t want anyone to run with this and say that means I said they were “okay to submit to” or anything else like that and then blame me later if they fold or something. I haven’t researched them and I know only a little about them. For one thing, I haven’t read any of their books (and that is so critical before submitting) so I have no idea about quality of writing/editing/formatting, etc.
But I met two of the execs from Resplendence at RT last spring (and yes, they were very nice and I have exchanged emails since with one of them, but if I were a writer–I’m not–I still wouldn’t sub there without a lot more research), and one thing that strikes me about them is how much planning went into opening their doors. Let me remind you, I met them at RT in the spring, so what? April? They didn’t open their doors until…October, I think. But they were 1)already doing promo and talking to authors at RT and 2)working on cover art and editing of upcoming books. In other words, they were planning. They didn’t just say “let’s open an epub” and then open one a week later. So though that shouldn’t make any author say “well then, I must submit to them” it is definitly something positive to consider.
Do you think I put enough disclaimers in here to cover myself? ;)
Nov 08, 2007 @ 13:46:17
I don’t want to split hairs, but I want to make it clear that when I said “Is it someone you know well and have worked with in the past, so you can judge their level of experience and professionalism” I didn’t mean, “Is it a friend of yours who always send you funny jokes through email and puts lots of smileys on her blog posts” or even “Is it someone you met at the mall and now talk on the phone to” or whatever.
I meant, is it someone whose knowledge of the industry and experience therein you have personally witnessed?
I just don’t want anyone to get confused, and think I was saying it’s cool to sub to a new epublisher if the owner sometimes posts on the same loop as you and seems like a nice person.
Nov 08, 2007 @ 14:08:39
I haven’t read all the comments, so if someone else covered this, I apologize now for the repeat.
The thing we have to remember in all of this is that we are human, we make mistakes, and the authors caught in messes like this are the victims. Yes, they signed the contracts, but it was not their fault the business failed. And not every contract is signed because the author “wants to be published.” Granted, that is the main reason, but there are other reasons as well, and we can’t pretend to know the author’s reasons for signing just as we can’t pretend to know the reason the publisher went into business in the first place.
I will agree with one point being made, publishers aren’t your friends. They aren’t your family. They are your employer of sorts. Or are they your employee since you wrote the book and contract with them for them to publish the book? Either way, it’s a symbiotic relationship, one cannot truly survive without the other, so I guess who’s on top doesn’t really matter, huh? My point being, it’s a business, plain and simple. And sometimes it takes a little time for people to realize this. The new authors, the ones that this is their very first book, are the ones that get hit the hardest. Their dreams as stolen, and that’s just plain wrong on numerous levels.
Back to the warning signs and waiting months on a submission. I agree, if you are supposed to hear back by X date and never hear a word, even after you email a query on it, then something is wrong. In that context, you are right, it’s a big red flag. But as it was worded originally, no it’s not a warning sign and that’s all I was commenting on.
Instances like this play out the same no matter which publisher it is that is doing the folding. For every publisher that folds, ten more pop up. It’s life, and as with anything else in life, you sometimes have to fail in order to learn. Live and learn. Sometimes the lessons that hurt the most are the ones that teach us the greatest lesson of all.
To all the authors, keep your chin up and keep writing. There will eventually be an end to this mess and all the others like it. There are good publishers out there. There are more opportunities, and when they finally present themselves, you can go in with a new confidence and level of knowledge.
Nov 08, 2007 @ 19:14:09
Of course we all want to be published, but Heather is right, there are different reasons for going with a publisher. And while I know no one intends to do this, I see a certain amount of “it’s the author’s fault” for signing in the first place syndrome going on in all of these closings.
Again Heather is right. The relationship with publisher and author should be a symbiotic one. We do not work for the publisher. They are not our boss…at least not in the traditional sense of the word. We need to think of our relationship as a joint business venture. We signed a contract they offered. We both have our end of the bargain to fulfill. If the bargain is not fulfilled by either one then there is a breach. Simple.
If I sign with 20 different publishers and fulfill my end of the bargain, the publisher should do the same. Am I so naive to believe this is the way it works in reality. Of course not. But that’s just it. It’s not my fault I signed with a bad publisher. Everyone seemed to be surprised by the Trisk closing. Why? It was RWA recognized and respected in the epub industry.
I signed with Twilight Fantasies months ago. Before Trisk and Mardis Gras. Had those closings occurred before my signing I would have been more vigilant and very probably not have signed with TF. 20/20 hindsight of course.
But let’s not put the blame monkey on the backs of authors. Let’s put it squarely where it belongs. On the backs of publishers who should never have been in business in the first place. Whether that is because they don’t know what they are doing and have good intentions or they are just plain greedy and unscrupulous.
And yes, I know this post will probably get me into trouble. LOL…. But, I’m an ol’ gal and I’ve been in trouble before.
And I’m pretty sure I’ll get into trouble again. Thank God!
Nov 08, 2007 @ 19:59:40
And while I know no one intends to do this, I see a certain amount of “it's the author's fault†for signing in the first place syndrome going on in all of these closings.
I’m not sure, but I might be guilty of this and, if so, I apologize. I can tell myself we’re all just trying to help other authors avoid this in the future, but maybe it’s a little bit of fear.
When a child’s abducted from a mall, we all say “I never let my child go to the video game aisle alone. I always hold his hand. I always watch him”…therefore it won’t happen to me.
When somebody’s hurt in a car accident, we say “I’m a safe driver, I wear my seatbelt and I don’t break laws”…therefore it won’t happen to me.
And when a publisher folds and authors are embroiled in the ensuing professional horror show, maybe we say “I chose my publisher for all the right reasons and investigated them fully and chose one that has a solid reputation or owners with a solid reputation”…so therefore it won’t happen to me.
So I’ll shut up now. I do hope the TF authors get a swift and satisfactory resolution so they can move forward.
Nov 09, 2007 @ 03:46:35
Some of the “don’t *do* that!” is because some of us have been around for a while and seen a pattern repeat several times. Inexperienced authors getting caught, simply because they’re inexperienced and don’t know that some agents and publishers are either incompetent or outright scammers. (Not just in epublishing, either.) And often the things that attract them to a publisher are the very things that make that publisher more of a risk — the things that get the book on sale most quickly. I’ve now lost count of the number of times I’ve seen a new author on a writer forum asking which publisher will get the book published fastest, or do least editing.
Authors traumatised by their publisher folding are particularly vulnerable to the “must get published *now*” feeling, even the ones who know better. And there have been ambulance chasers in the wake of the last couple of collapses.
No publisher is 100% safe, and even a big, stable publisher could go under. But some publishers are riskier than others. *Any* new epublisher is going to be more of a risk than the top tranche of established epubs, even if it’s run by competent people with a good track record. And amongst new publishers, some are going to be riskier than others.
There are reasons why an author might want to take the risk of submitting to a start-up. Mine was that there were very few publishers at the time who would accept m/m romance. So when I say, “Stop, think, and do some research”, I’m not speaking as someone who doesn’t understand what it’s like to have trouble finding a publisher — I’m telling people to do what *I* did.
Nov 09, 2007 @ 07:13:51
In the case of the publisher for Twilight Fantasies, I don’t think it was so much the fact the publisher didn’t know what she was doing in regards to running a publishing company, but more a matter of initial motive coupled with the fact that it is a great deal of work. For instance, with my writing, those who don’t write and know me believe I just sit at a computer all day and tap out a story and just send it to a publisher and Voila…there it is. Of course we all know just how much work there is in it all.
This publisher had worked for another publisher and I believe it was a matter of “I can do this and I can do it better.” Put that with the fact the publisher was also a writer and we are now sure (judging from the number of her own books she published and the care she put into promoting them) the idea of promoting her own books appealed to her greatly and you had the birth of a new epub.
And to be perfectly honest, there was a great deal of energy and enthusiasm there…at first. The ideas were there. It was organized and running smoothly. But that takes work. And the “work ethic” was short lived.
So where does the “unscrupulous” come into play? Failure to inform us. Not sending arcs out for review. Not advertising the website. Collecting money from sales and pocketing it rather than sending out statements and mailing checks. And then there is the fact that when everything blew up in her face, she simply passed the buck. Nothing was the publisher’s fault. It was always someone else’s responsibility.
And when authors asked for a reversion of rights, they were lambasted with accusations of failure to promote their work and the publishing site as well as lied about to others. And at the same time the publisher was “playing the sympathy card” and telling everyone she had been too sick to perform her duties properly, she was working full time in her regular job. And still promoting her own works and still putting them up on the site for sale. A simple grab for all she could get.
The reason I was there is the same as another poster here. We stumbled onto a contest. Yes, we were new to it all, but far from stupid. The problem with me personally is not so much the fact that things did not go the way I thought they should have, but the fact that this type of failure in the epub world keeps happening. And something else I discovered along the way. There is some sort of unwritten law that says we as authors must “toe the line”. We can not complain. I can’t tell you the number of times I have been told that to discuss the problems I was having with my publisher with another author was unprofessional. I’ve also been told that an author who speaks out would be blackballed by every other publisher.
Well like I said in an earlier post, I’m an ol’ gal. And I may be green to the publishing business (not anymore! I’ve been broken in quite nicely, thank you very much! lol), but I am a business person myself and all of that is simply hogwash! What publisher in their right mind would turn down a perfectly wonderful manuscript just because another publisher whispered in their ear? This is not a matter of being temperamental. And I am tired of hearing the term Diva.
But if Diva refers to an woman who is a talented writer who shamelessly promotes her writing, is intelligent, demands fair treatment by all and that the clauses in her contract be honored to the nth degree…THEN I’M A DIVA IN TRAINING!!!
And before I go (I promise this is my last post here! lol) I want to thank everyone who took the time to weigh in on yet another tragic tale in the e publishing world. Your wisdom is very much appreciated…more than you will ever know. And I also want to thank Jane for bringing this out in the light of day so we could all discuss it. Thank you all!!!
Nov 09, 2007 @ 09:18:07
Sadly, for every one that shuts down, three more open. There are at least 2 or 3 more opening their doors within the next few months. I don’t know when this nasty trend will stop, but I do feel for all the authors that get trapped. It is getting to a point in which no matter how many precautions a new authors take, the odds are going to be that they may end up with one or more of their books tangled.
Nov 20, 2007 @ 11:17:53
I don’t seem to have came across this aspect of the posts, so if it’s there, please forgive me. One element that seems to be lacking is that epublishers are human, too. Just like any other business. No one really sets out (unless they’re criminal from the start) with the intention to scam people or produce second-rate material. Many epublishers are just disgusted by the NY publishing scene, or even their regional publishing scene, and honestly believe they can do it better. Likewise, I’ve yet to come across any publisher, including university presses, with enough in the beginning to offer salaries and benefits to famous graphic artists and other highly experienced professionals. Even many colleges often depend upon faculty for assistance in the beginning.
Before there is this assumption, I am not excusing any lack of professionalism or negligence on the part of the publisher, that is completely uncalled for. There is no reason to keep people, who are much like your employees, in the dark when it will have such an effect on them! Likewise, if you incur debts to start your company, you should be required to pay them.
My very first epublisher had to close its doors when the senior publisher was stricken with a terminal illness. However, in two years, my ebook had well over 30,000 downloads and over 1,000,000 pages read. The ebook route was a great experience for me. It isn’t for everyone, there are bad epublishers, but authors shouldn’t be afraid to consider it. If your publisher can withstand online research and still emerge with a good reputation, it’s a viable alternative.
I have friends published with small houses and some published through the major New York houses. Author treatment, benefits, and success are very similiar and, even with the “big boys,” you still have to promote your work just as with smaller or epublishers. The money is very similiar, too.
This is a great way to discuss much-needed tips on publishing. Hopefully, more authors will be aware of the dishonest and dubious individuals out there!