Mar 11 2013
REVIEW: Captive Prince, Volumes 1 and 2, by S.U. Pacat
Dear Ms. Pacat,
I thought about reviewing the two volumes of Captive Prince separately, but came to the conclusion that since they are two parts of the same story and absolutely must be read in order, this made no sense. I understand that there will be a third volume out in 2014, and I will wait with bated breath until then, because I’m dying for more of these characters and their story.
Captive Prince has an interesting provenance. It began as a serial on the web. It is not fanfiction in the sense that it’s not based off of any other author’s characters, but it was written for an online community. The online version has some differences from the published version, but it is still available here for free.
Volume 1 is disturbing, but good, and must be read before Volume 2. But Volume 2 is where it’s really at, because there the story gets mind-blowing.
On to that story.
Here’s the author’s blurb for Volume 1:
Damen is a warrior hero to his people, and the rightful heir to the throne of Akielos, but when his half brother seizes power, Damen is captured, stripped of his identity, and sent to serve the prince of an enemy nation as a pleasure slave.
Beautiful, manipulative and deadly, his new master Prince Laurent epitomizes the worst of the court at Vere. But in the lethal political web of the Veretian court, nothing is as it seems, and when Damen finds himself caught up in a play for the throne, he must work together with Laurent to survive and save his country.
For Damen, there is just one rule: never, ever reveal his true identity. Because the one man Damen needs is the one man who has more reason to hate him than anyone else . . .
And the blurb for Volume 2:
With their countries on the brink of war, Damen and his new master Prince Laurent must exchange the intrigues of the palace for the sweeping might of the battlefield as they travel to the border to avert a lethal plot.
Forced to hide his identity, Damen finds himself increasingly drawn to the dangerous, charismatic Laurent. But as the fledgling trust between the two men deepens, the truth of secrets from both their pasts is poised to deal them the crowning death blow . . .
Lest all this master/pleasure slave stuff mislead anyone, I hasten to add that this is not, in the main, a BDSM or D/s story. At first, it appears to have the trappings of erotica, but then it veers off in a totally unexpected direction and what it really becomes is a story of political intrigue and machinations in the vein of Dorothy Dunnett, with an epic, towering, impossible romance at its center.
I’m typically not keen on romances involving slavery — I could not enjoy Justine Davis’ Skypirate books, or Song of Scarabeus, which so many readers loved a few years back, because I found the slavery too disturbing.
And it was disturbing as hell for me in Volume 1 of Captive Prince, too, I don’t want to imply otherwise. But the great plotting and the characters kept me glued to the pages.
The book starts out a bit like a car accident that you can’t look away from. The hero, Prince Damianos of Akielos (known as Damen) and heir to the throne of his country, is attacked unexpectedly thanks to a coup by his older, illegitimate half-brother Kastor. There are too many attackers for him to fight off and he is bound, gagged, put in a gold slave collar and wrist cuffs and shipped to the enemy country of Vere.
When Damen arrives in Vere, he realizes he is believed to be dead and no one in Vere knows his true identity. He is presented as a gift to the Crown Prince of Vere, Laurent, from the new King of Akielos, Kastor. Laurent takes the gift as insult, since Damen, who hates all Veretians, is deliberately insulting, and also since Laurent is told the slave’s name is Damen.
You see, Prince Damianos of Akielos, whom Laurent assumes Damen is named for, killed Laurent’s beloved older brother Auguste in battle several years earlier. Laurent, now twenty but thirteen at the time, was left orphaned in the same war, and under the care of his uncle the regent, since by Veretian law, he can’t ascend to the throne until age twenty one. And Laurent and his uncle have bad blood between them.
The regent forces Laurent to accept Kastor’s personal gift of Damen for his bed slave, but Laurent has no interest in bedding Damen (for a long time, it appears — outwardly at least — that Laurent has no interest in bedding anyone). Instead, he sets out to torment Damen and make his life difficult because of Damen’s insolence and even more because Laurent hates all Akielons for the death of his brother.
If only he knew that Damen is the one Akielon who actually killed his brother… but he doesn’t, and Damen realizes his survival depends on his ability to conceal this.
For the longest time, Damen thinks Laurent is a spoiled, cruel, decadent young man and his uncle the Regent is wise and worthy of Laurent’s respect. But things aren’t what they appear to be in Vere. There are all sort of machinations going on behind the scenes, and no one is the same as the front they present to the world.
Damen is in over his head, but eventually he realizes that to help his countrymen, he must join forces with Laurent, of all people.
The romance is very, very slow to develop and the sexual tension is through the roof. The balance of power, which at first glance seems lopsided, is actually a lot less so than initial appearances suggest. And once these two fall in love — wow.
It is such an impossible conflict because (A) their countries are sworn enemies, (B) Damen killed Laurent’s beloved older brother, and if Laurent knew! And (C) they are both the rightful heirs to their thrones and doesn’t that mean marriage to produce legitimate heirs?
However, you have promised a HEA in Volume 3 and the strength of your writing is such that I believe you can deliver. Your prose has clarity and simplicity but is also poetic at times because the words have a way of gathering power. With the exception of a brief prologue, the book is written in Damen’s third person POV alone, and yet you manage to make Laurent at least as compelling. Both characters are real and complex and they grow.
Damien is strong, honorable and straightforward, but at first glance too naive for a 25 year old crown prince. Gradually he grows out of that and catches on to more and more of what’s going on around him. His strength of will shows in the ways he finds to be more than simply a pawn. At the same time a more complete picture of him slowly emerges.
Laurent is reminiscent of Dunnett’s Lymond, a character who is usually three steps ahead of everyone else, and whose interior does not match his exterior. At first we think he’s an out and out villain, and then we realize that is not exactly the case. His cleverness and scheming can be infuriating, but as more and more of the truth emerges, it becomes impossible not to fall in love with him bit by bit.
But one of the most wonderful things about this book is the plotting — it’s full of surprising twists, secret political maneuvers, and devious stratagems. There will be some little detail in the middle of the book, and later in the story the reader suddenly discovers just how important that small detail was, and that things aren’t what they appeared in any way, shape or form.
While the romance develops with exquisite slowness, as is fitting to these characters’ backgrounds and personalities, the pacing of the plot is fast and the book is hard to put down.
I love this kind of story. As for my criticisms, I have a few. Female characters are few and far between in Captive Prince. On occasion, I hit a line of contemporary-sounding dialogue, such as “No kidding,” that was jarring in the historical setting. The writing is less polished in the beginning, with some stylistic cliches and an overuse of adverbs, but this improves.
Also, while the worldbuiding was very good in terms of its internal consistency, and in terms of developing the cultural differences between Akielos and Vere (there is a very good portrayal of what it’s like to be displaced into an unfamiliar culture), I wished the world was fleshed out a bit more. For example I would have loved to know about the religions of these countries, the monetary system, the roles of regular people and of women.
Volume 1 does not make for comfortable reading. Rape and abuse take place in the first half of that volume. This is the kind of book where the price of admission may mean putting up with squick factors and triggers but there is a huge reward in return for that in Volume 2. By the time I finished the end of the second volume, I realized none of the upsetting/disturbing/triggering things had been gratuitous.
There will be a third volume, as I said before, but it won’t be out until 2014. I’ll be obsessively checking for news of it in that year, that’s how much I want to read it. Volume 2 ends on a huge cliffhanger, but one that comes after rewarding payoffs, so the ending managed to leave me salivating for the next book yet deeply satisfied at the same time.
If I were to grade Volume 1 by itself, I would give it a B, mainly because it’s so disturbing and not everything makes sense yet, even by the end. But Volume 1 is not meant to be read on its own. When I got to Volume 2 (which must be read after volume 1), I realized that a lot of things in Volume 1 were setups for payoffs that occur in Volume 2. Therefore I would advise everyone who wants to try Captive Prince to read both volumes, in order.
Despite the imperfections, my grade for Volume 2 is easily an A and for both together, an A as well, because the cumulative effect of reading them back to back is mind blowing.
Sincerely,
Janine
PS While at this time the electronic editions are only available at Amazon, or serially on the author’s livejournal page (link here), an ebook edition will be available at Barnes and Noble in a few weeks, and there will be one at iTunes as well. There are also paper editions at Amazon and Barnes and Noble.
ETA: Captive Prince is now available on Kobo as well.
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Mar 11, 2013 @ 12:22:08
I am still undecided. Political intrigue: yay! But Rape and abuse: boo!
Mar 11, 2013 @ 12:54:20
I completely understand and I expect there will be many readers who share your feelings. The first half of Vol. 1 is a very tough read in that regard. I have friends who wanted to quit at that point but were glad they persisted.
For me, the payoffs in Vol. 2 were huge, but I can’t explain why without divulging spoilers. And this is a book that depends so much on surprising readers, on setting us to expect something and then turning those expectations upside down, that I would rather not share the spoilers here.
However, if you decide you’re not going to read it, there is a spoiler-filled discussion on Sunita’s blog, Vacuous Minx. Sunita hasn’t finished reading Vol. 2, but I know she disliked Vol. 1. The discussion at VM is really worthwhile, with people weighing in on different aspects of Captive Prince. But it does contain spoilers, so read at your own risk.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 12:54:58
This sounds interesting. I just purchased – thanks for the review!
Mar 11, 2013 @ 12:55:23
Excellent review, Janine. This book is not easy to talk about without spoilers.
And it’s true that, to enjoy it properly, you need to extend the author a little bit of credit. Credit that she’s smart enough to surprise you, that she’s not handling her themes lightly, that she can reveal the layers of a character slowly, in meaningful ways. She is not, for example, just crafting characters who get personality transplants — it’s important to point out how WRONG the initial impressions of Laurent and Damen are, but equally important to point out how RIGHT they are.
Laurent IS infuriating. He really is spoiled and sulky and childish….and a lot of other things, so that eventually, you fall in love with the whole character. Not just his good qualities but his flaws as well. And Damen, even as we grow to understand his faults, his thoughtlessness, his unfortunate ignorance, remains a strong, straightforward man who aims to do good.
I adored CAPTIVE PRINCE as well, obviously. I found it so utterly absorbing, so real, so beautifully done. One of my favorite books last year, when I read it online.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 12:57:50
This sounds a lot like the Swordspoint books of Ellen Kushner, with all the political intrigue. I think I may have to give these a try!
Mar 11, 2013 @ 13:04:11
And then I purchased Song of Scarabeus and Skypirate too. This is why I have to stop checking this blog…
Mar 11, 2013 @ 13:10:48
@Ann F.: You’re welcome. I hope you enjoy it!
@Erin Satie: Thanks so much for weighing in. You’re right, it’s so hard to discuss it without spoilers.
@tangodiva: I haven’t read Swordspoint but I was reminded, in different ways, of the one book I read in Dunnett’s Lymond Chronicles, of Megan Whalen Turner’s The Queen of Attolia and The King of Attolia, and even, though the tone couldn’t be more different, reminded a little bit of Le Guin’s The Left Hand of Darkness. That said, we start the story as clueless as Damen, and the first half of Vol. 1 reads like Anne Rice’s Beauty too. This is one of the reasons I recommend reading both volumes.
Can you email me, Tangodiva? I have a question I would like to ask you. My email is janineballard at gmail dot com.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 14:06:59
The writing is beautiful, this author puts so many people to shame it isn’t even funny. However, I found it really simple. Painfully so. I did pefer Vol. 2 and I though the ending was great.
Yes to this. We were told there was a difference but there was never enough detailing as to what. Most of the time they were busy using slurs against each other as an indication but it wasn’t enough.
Overall beautiful writing – just stunning.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 14:39:17
Ah, I just bought Volume 1 because Brie’s review @ Romance around the Corner convinced me! I obviously need to buy Vol 2 as well… definitely moving this up my to-read list.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 14:42:11
@cs: Without mentioning spoilers, did you see all the twists and turns coming, then? Because I was taken by surprise by many of them.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 14:56:33
I too want to read this, but am unsure because of the rape/abuse. Is Damen the one who is abused? I guess I could handle it if it was just the two main characters involved in the non-con (maybe shades of Luke & Laura), but if it is Damen/multiple others, I will have to pass no matter how good the writing.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 15:00:24
@Lasha: Damen is the one who is abused and raped, but as to by whom, it would require a spoiler to fully explain. If you email me (and this also goes for anyone else who wants to know), I’ll tell you the answer. I’m at janineballard at gmail dot com.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 15:06:40
@Lasha: If you’re also asking whether any other characters besides the MCs are abused or raped, then yes, they are. Some of it is off-page and most of it is not graphic.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 15:45:14
@Sunita: True. Not by Laurent, though.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 15:48:35
@Janine: I thought Lasha was asking if in addition to whatever went on between the MCs, was there rape and/or abuse of other characters more generally. Sorry if I misunderstood you, Lasha.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 16:51:10
I’ve been hearing a lot of buzz about The Captive Prince, but slavery is really not my thing so I haven’t picked it up yet. I think you’ve convinced me to go for it, though. The only only slavery themed story I’ve really liked is another free m/m one, The Violet and the Tom by Eve Ocotillo, which also treated slavery seriously and took things in an unexpected direction.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 17:00:55
@Geri: I have a very tough time reading slavery themed books and I’m honestly not sure why I kept reading Captive Prince in the first half, because for a long time it appeared to be insensitive to the issue. After finishing Vol. 2, I felt very differently, but I can’t guarantee that you will.
I do know that one of my friends who is extremely sensitive to the slavery theme, disliked Vol. 1 but loved Vol. 2 and was glad of my recommendation. She said she would not have kept reading had it not been for my encouragement, but she thought Vol. 2 was great.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 17:02:31
I loved these books so much!!! There were so many points where I just had to stop and put them down so I could freak out for a couple minutes. The plots twists are crazy.
BUT: I’d like to add a warning about another potential trigger. Along with rape and physical abuse, there is also implied pedophilia, with (vague spoiler!) one major character being a pedophile and another being his victim.
EDIT: just to clarify, neither of those characters are Laurent or Damen.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 17:18:17
@Shy: So glad you loved them too!
MASSIVE SPOILER
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Mar 11, 2013 @ 17:26:56
If Damen is raped by bad guy(s), then yeah, I’ll have to skip Volume 1. How much abuse/non-con is in Volume 2? Thanks for answering all my questions.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 17:59:55
@Lasha: Okay, I’ll reply to both of your comments, but this also gets into MASSIVE SPOILERS for Vol. 1, even more so than the above comment.
First, all the sex in Vol. 2 read as consensual to me.
Second, (Vol. 1 spoilers below — please read it though, as I think it will help you decide):
Mar 11, 2013 @ 18:09:08
Janine: yeeeeaaahh… I figured I shouldn’t put that. (That moment where it’s first implied — that was one of my freak-out moments!)
Lasha: I’m going list everything I can think of, and do my best not to spoil anything.
I wouldn’t recommend reading Volume 2 without reading Volume 1. The plot might not make sense if you do. What you could do is read the free version Pacat has up on her livejournal, then quit reading whenever you feel uncomfortable.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 18:31:40
@Shy:
I put your comments in spoiler tags but I’d like to add some corrections to them.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 19:10:12
Geri -
I really enjoyed The Violet and the Tom as well, but I’d say it’s much closer to being slavefic than The Captive Prince.
I’m pretty sure I read Violet and Tom in the wake of Captive Prince, when I was looking for anything that might replicate the experience a little.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 21:00:39
I LOVED these two volumes. I only wish volume 3 were closer to sale, but I got the impression she wasn’t even going to start writing it until after the recent publication of these two volumes. When that’s published, I’ll look forward to reading these two books again, then proceeding straight to volume 3.
The story blew me away. I loved the ending of volume 2 – it is a cliffhanger, but you’re right – very satisfying. I would highly recommend them to anyone.
[Janine: Possible Volume 3 BIG SPOILER below]
Thanks for the review.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 21:03:58
I will come back and read after I’ve read and written my own review. Thx Janine :)
Mar 11, 2013 @ 21:19:05
Everyone, please use spoiler tags for Volume 3 speculation as well as for Vol. 1 & Vol. 2 spoilers. The spoiler tags look like this, but without the spaces within the brackets: [ spoiler ] and [ /spoiler ]. The brackets do need to be square.
@jessP:
Possible Volume 3 BIG SPOIlER below
@Kaetrin: I’m really looking forward to your thoughts.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 21:46:41
@Janine:
Thank you, Janine. My apologies.
Mar 11, 2013 @ 22:55:11
@jessP: No worries!
Mar 11, 2013 @ 22:58:50
Oh, these books! UNF! I’d heard about CP for a few years but didn’t put two and two together until about a month ago when the books were available.
I picked them up because I do enjoy the slave trope (even though it often crosses paths with non-con/rape and that’s a trigger.) Still, the back button exists for a reason so, armed with that reassuring thought, I started reading it. FWIW, I picked the books totally unspoiled (except for the blurb) and spent the next four days devouring the books way past midnight.
In truth, I thought I was ready for the pining and UST…and I’ve never been so happy to be wrong! I loved the prose, the set-up and the characters. The worldbuilding was something I was a bit wary of (there were hints that the story had a slightly fantasy setting and I’m not the biggest fan of fantasy to begin with?). However, I ate up the story and loved the intrigue as well as Laurent and Damen’s one step forward/ten steps back relationship.
FTR, I like Damen OK as a character and hero. Laurent, though, I love. Pacat did a wonderful job in peeling the layers to Laurent and making the reader understand the ins and outs of his personality. The two of them made me clutch my bosom (metaphorically speaking) whenever they snarked at each other.
Volume 1 is pretty hard in some aspects. I got so caught up with the story that I was able to keep going past any of the darker scenes. It also helped that the author didn’t put gratuitous or extremely graphic scenes for the sake of making the story ‘shocking’.
Volume 2 was SUCH a great payoff! I’ve got to admit that I did wondered if the second book was going to be as meaty and intense as the first. It was such a happy surprise to find out that it knocked the story out of the park. That said, I would be remiss if I didn’t mention that there is a point halfway through Volume 2 where the plot seems to slow down. I read on, waiting for the narrative to pick up. Of course, it turns out that the slow pace was there for a REASON: because everything after that particular chapter was like going downhill on a rollercoaster.
My sole consolation in having to wait for Vol 3 to get released next year is that my BFF as well as other friends are waiting along with me. :D
Also, I consider mentioning Damen’s actions during that fateful battle many years before a major spoiler. YMMV, of course.
Oh, one thing I didn’t see mentioned in the review is that the print books have maps. I bought the ebook versions because of the extras. Volume 1 includes a short (about 3k words) story about a character. Meanwhile, Volume 2 has an extended version of a really great chapter. AFAIK, neither extra is included in the free online version.
Mar 12, 2013 @ 02:25:57
Wow – this sounds like some cross between two favourite fantasy books: Ellen Kushner’s SWORDPOINT and Carol Berg’s TRANSFORMATION. But with, you know, sex.
This website is terrible for my bank balance…
Mar 12, 2013 @ 09:08:19
@Janine: Oh, I’ll have fun playing with the spoiler tag,
Mar 12, 2013 @ 09:21:52
I started Volume One last night around 7 thanks to all the buzz here, and finished it at 11:30 desperate to start the second book. I had to make myself go to sleep instead of finding out what happens next — but I’m looking forward to tonight!
This has been pretty great on its own, I was worried that parts would bother me (and some made me squirm a bit) but it was far less graphic than I was expecting and treated with the weight and seriousness it deserves.
Mar 12, 2013 @ 11:19:11
@Luce:
I like Damen, and I especially like the way Pacat uses his unreliable POV to reveal things to readers. But you’re right, Laurent is the unforgettable character in Captive Prince. It’s amazing that even though we never get Laurent’s POV, the author very slowly peels him back layer by layer to a point where it becomes hard not to love him, in spite of his ruthlessness.
There is some terrific dialogue in Captive Prince, with a lot of undercurrents below the surface of the words. That is especially true in Vol. 2.
Oh, I figured that out pretty early on, at the 13% mark in Vol. 1, I think. There were a lot of clues, although it is not stated outright until 31% in. My spoiler policy is that anything in the first third of a book is fair game to mention. It is hard to do a plot summary or give readers a clear idea of what the book is about if I can only describe 10% of the story.
Thanks for mentioning that. I loved this book so much that I purchased both the ebooks and the paperbacks.
@CD: I hope you enjoy it. The first 45% of Captive Prince is tough to read, but the payoff in Vol. 2 is so great that it’s totally worth it. Enough people have mentioned Swordpoint to me in connection with this book (including Tangodiva earlier in this thread) that I’m going to have to read it.
@Estara: LOL!
@Sunny: I’m glad you enjoyed Vol. 1. I did too (especially the second half), but I think Vol. 2 is one that more people will love.
I would love it if you returned to post your opinion of Vol. 2 after you finish it.
Mar 12, 2013 @ 12:30:10
Great review!
I discovered CP last year. I never read online fiction before and I was skeptic, but when I started I couldn’t stop until I finished. I was baffled this story isn’t picked by any publisher before-it’s unputdownable!
Vol. 1 has more slave-fic parts for my taste, but vol. 2 is amazing. Sexual tension is off the chart and Laurent is one of the most interesting characters to read. He really has poison tongue ;)…. I also liked Nicaise, he was very intriguing character…Twists, betrayals, and other court schemes are unpredictable, I was surprised several times. I bought both volumes as a support for author and I hope we’ll get some news about Vol.3.
Mar 12, 2013 @ 12:55:33
@ Janine I’m planning on getting started with Captive vol 1 this evening and very much looking forward to it – if only to start opening up all these spoiler tags…
Do try SWORDPOINT – there’s a review by Mrs Giggles (http://www.mrsgiggles.com/books/kushner_swordspoint.html) which more or less says everything I wanted to say. This is a cult classic written 25 years ago but still feels so fresh and original – for one thing, I haven’t read another book that has quite that contrast between such elegant prose and the brutal actions of its characters.
Mar 12, 2013 @ 13:01:27
I can’t believe the next is going to be published 2014! I have been following the free online publication for years and it was always a pleasant surprise to be noted of a new chapter. I guess a year is not so different from a few months. I really love these books. The author is so good at making you think you know what is going on, when you really, really don’t. I love both Damen and Laurent. They are both so flawed and have so much to learn about being a prince, and I think that is the most wonderful thing about their relationship, watching them learn from each other, watching them grow to understand and respect each other. I keep meaning to buy these but I know I’ll end up reading them and I just cannot face that cliffhanger for the …third time? I’m fairly sure I read the last few chapters of the last book multiple times….
Mar 12, 2013 @ 14:16:17
@Lege Artis: I’m also baffled that it hasn’t been jumped on by New York publishers. It’s not perfect, and I think a good editor could have made it sublime, but it’s outstanding even without editing.
@CD: I hope you like it! Please come back and post your thoughts; I’d love to hear them.
That review you linked to makes Swordpoint sound intriguing. I actually have the book in my paperback TBR pile, and I will give it another try (I started it once and didn’t get far because the prose style seemed affected. I kept it anyway because so many people had recommended it to me).
@C: Glad you loved it too!
Mar 12, 2013 @ 14:21:39
I don’t get this. What do you mean by the prose seeming affected. You often point to prose being the kicker for you but I never really understand what you mean by it.
Mar 12, 2013 @ 14:46:51
@Jane: I mean that in Swordpoint the writing style had an artifice to it and felt overwrought. There’s a fine line between a prose style that is lovely, beautiful, but still feels natural, and a prose style that pushes the boundaries of that and ends up feeling showy and artificial. But these are always matters of personal taste and not something there will ever be a consensus on. One reader’s plain is another’s spare and striking, one reader’s showy is another’s beautiful writing.
And there are writers whose styles seemed affected or overwrought to me, but I learned to get used to them because other aspects of their books made it worthwhile.
Mar 12, 2013 @ 15:24:18
@Janine – Okay. It is a very personal thing. I think when people use the word prose, it has some sort of objective standard to it. However, your qualifications (awkward, artificial) are based on your own perceptions. (for instance, I tried to read an excerpt of Captive Prince and it read dull to me).
Mar 12, 2013 @ 18:13:17
@Janine:
I am afraid this series will scupper all my looming deadlines, but you invoke Dunnett so I don’t think I can resist…
Mar 12, 2013 @ 18:28:11
@Jane: I don’t think of prose as having a purely objective standard. Grammar and spelling, which are aspects of prose, have an objective standard, but style, which is what I was talking about, is more subjective.
I can see that about the Captive Prince sample/ excerpt too, because it starts out rougher writing-wise, and because at that point in the story Damen and the reader are so much in ignorance about what is really going on. I wasn’t sure about CP in the early chapters myself.
@Donna Thorland: I hope you enjoy it. The Dunnett similarities don’t start to become apparent until Chapter 8 or so of Vol. 1, and only come into full fruition in Vol. 2. There are machinations going on in the earlier chapters of Vol. 1 but it takes Damen a long time to catch on.
Mar 12, 2013 @ 19:22:14
@Janine: Yup. I just didn’t find anything very surprising because the story wasn’t very complex. Not to me anyway. Though I didn’t see the ending of vol. 2 though – then again it was probably high time that happened anyway. That’s just me though, I know for many readers this was an intriguing story and it was in parts but the politics was pretty sub-standard. I’m totally in the minority though ;)
Mar 12, 2013 @ 19:24:07
@cs: Thanks for weighing in. It is good for readers to hear a variety of opinions.
Mar 12, 2013 @ 19:26:14
@Jane: Sorry to comment jump but I can I comment on your word “dull” in response to Captive Prince. Personally I think the author writes beautifully. However, I found her storytelling (it sounds harsh) dull and in some respects her characters. I’m not sure if that makes sense but yeah to use your word I found it to be dull too.
Mar 12, 2013 @ 21:04:23
@cs: You’re in the minority but you’re not alone. ;) It’s good to see politics at all in a romance-driven story (and to me the central focus on the relationship clearly makes this a romance). But I agree with you, the depiction is not particularly unusual or deep especially if you compare it to what we see in historical fiction.
Of the part I read (Vol. 1 and a few chapters of Vol. 2), the twists and turns seem designed as much to provide a path for the relationship to develop as to stand on their own. Which is fine, but I felt as if the Veretian court was a real lost opportunity. Lots of decadence but not enough court intrigue; it seems all focused on two characters within Vere. Courts with regents are ripe for complex infighting. But perhaps it shows up in Vol. 2.
Mar 13, 2013 @ 00:43:10
@Sunita: I felt there was more in the way of intrigue and plot twists in Vol. 2 than in Vol 1, but Vol. 2 is set outside the court, so it’s not court intrigue.
Mar 13, 2013 @ 11:53:23
@Sunita: You explained my feelings perfectly. I very rarely read historical fiction or fantasy. However, when I do I’m use to the world building and the characters being extensive. The genre lends you to use so much unlike contemporary which is restrictive. I personally found it too simple and not very deep. The politics was weak and the characters were very expected in their roles in this genre. Nothing was surprising and you are right the setting was secondary to the romance. It was very character-driven which was great, but I felt the author didn’t utilize her idea to (imo) full capacity.
I’m also going to stop raining on everyone’s parade now. I genuinely haven’t ‘met’ anyone who hasn’t loved this book to pieces. The author is a great writer though and I think she’s gained so much respect from readers in the mm genre (and historical/fantasy).
Mar 13, 2013 @ 13:00:24
@cs:
I’ll join the discussion with my own impressions, if you don’t mind.
I agree it’s a basic story with few elements in play. It has a few mysteries going on about who did what waiting to be resolved in book 3, but certainly the best developed part is the romance. I definitely believe the storyline could have had more threads and it would have benefitted from a more complex worldbuilding.
However, I feel that one of the main issues that affects contemporary fantasy is many authors go for these huge stories with dozens of characters, multiple overarching plots and subplots, big themes, immense worldbuilding, etc. That’s not bad in itself and it can definitely be pulled off well (so amazingly well, in fact), but I’ve been disappointed in too many occasions when the author tries to do too much and it seems like all these a priori great elements pile one upon each other with no real control or purpose.
So in a way, I found it refreshing that that this was the story of two people, simply told, no frills, but also no stray elements that could get out of the author’s control and lead the story to a dead end the author can’t pull out off. The writing style is one I enjoyed very much, apart from a few distracting instances, and while the characters might not be a paragon of originality, I liked the way emotions ran mostly in the background instead of being openly stated (over-emotional POVs and writing are something that bothers me in general, and this could have easily gone the uber-drama route from page one). I also found the story touched many of my emotional buttons just the right way, particularly in the second book, so that its simplicity didn’t dampen my enjoyment of it.
However, I think that if I hadn’t connected emotionally and the writing hadn’t been a style I like so much, the other aspects might not have convinced me to keep reading. I have been known to stick to books that leave me emotionally cold just because the worldbuilding or a particular character are amazingly done, but I’d rather have the opposite (it goes without saying that a combination of both things is my favourite). I think a lot of it is a matter of which aspects we care more about as readers, and what makes us tick, and there are not two readers who are the same!
Mar 13, 2013 @ 13:49:24
@Neri: Thanks for weighing in. The story got to me emotionally too.
I find it so interesting that three of you see the story as simple. I agree that the romance is front and center here. And I can see what you mean, Neri, with regard to the number of characters and subplots, and what Sunita means with regard to court intrigue, and what CS means with regard to the setting. And as I said in the review, I wish the worldbuilding had been more thorough.
But I still see this novel as quite complex and rich, partly because Pacat is exploring so many issues here. Among them are power vs. vulnerability, displacement in a foreign culture vs. acclimation to that society, loyalty to country vs. loyalty to other people, betrayal/distrust vs. loyalty/trust, war vs. peace, the differences between people’s exteriors and their interiors, and perhaps most of all, moral ambiguity.
The other thing I think is quite complex is what Erin Satie alluded to in her post above — and I’ll hide it as I think it’s a spoiler:
I also, personally, found the external plot (outside the romance) twisty, esp. in Vol. 2. Many things happened that I did not anticipate. CS feels differently about this, though.
Mar 13, 2013 @ 16:36:46
@Janine:
Thanks for replying, Janine!
I’d like to clarify that I think the story is simple, though not simplistic. Most of the tropes and character types it includes are not exactly new, but Pacat doesn’t deal with them cheaply or carelessly, so they didn’t bother me. In fact, I enjoyed all those themes you mention quite a bit, and the understated way they’re presented and developed is one of the main reasons why Captive Prince pushes a lot of my buttons and I kept reading. Unstable power balance, unreliable POV and character perception, all the unsaid things that matter more than what is said, scenes that mirror each other but not quite, etc. are all dealt with in a way that appeals to me. I agree on moral ambiguity too. One of my favourite things is how blame cannot easily be allocated and moral superiority shifts more than once throughout the story.
Now, I see Captive Prince as “simple” in comparison to many historical/fantasy-themed stories in that worldbuilding and setting development are kept to a minimum (perhaps too much, as discussed) and there are few elements, such as storylines and characters, that actually matter and have meat to them. Mainly, we’ve got: Damen and Laurent’s adventure to defeat those who intend to deprive them of their rights, their developing enmity/relationship (where almost all the interesting themes we’ve been mentioning are concentrated), and the mysteries that, once solved, will explain what’s exactly going on in both the villains and Laurent’s heads. Add to that one or two extra subplots featuring other soldiers in Laurent’s company (to strengthen the main themes and draw parallels). That’s a very basic plot structure when compared with all those huge sprawling stories we’ve grown used to, where there’s usually a substantially bigger main cast and more themes, subplots and secrets interacting with each other. Readers who prefer that type of complexity, which I can understand, will probably find Captive Prince a bit lacking.
But the few elements it does have are treated carefully and done justice (maybe because all of Pacat’s energy is focused on those few?), and because of that I actually like Captive Prince better than some stories who are objectively a lot more complex as far as cast, setting and plot go. As for planning and writing technique, I trust Pacat. She seems to know well where she wants to take things, what the pacing should be, etc. In the second volume I had the sudden feeling she knows what she’s doing with her story, which is not something every author out there can say. That’s something I respect a lot.
Some thoughts on Captive Prince by SU Pacat | Joanna Chambers, author
Mar 13, 2013 @ 18:46:28
[...] or rather these two volumes of a planned trilogy - have garnered a lot of attention recently. Janine Ballard wrote an excellent review over at Dear Author, Sunita has posted some thoughts on the first part of volume 1, and a number of [...]
Mar 13, 2013 @ 19:37:27
@Neri:
Yes. I loved all these things too, and I especially like your point about how the things that go unsaid provide a subtext for so much. The shifts in moral superiority are one of the things I loved most of all, too.
I agree with you about the small number of plot threads and the relative lack of setting development. It may be a question of whether one approaches Captive Prince as a fantasy novel with romantic elements, or as a romance novel in a fantasy setting. I very much saw it as a romance novel, so for me, the absence of a lot of plot threads and subplots was a strength. If I had been expecting a fantasy novel, I might not have loved it so much.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 06:51:45
@Janine:
I also see it basically as a romance story, more than pure fantasy or anything else, but I’m aware not everyone comes to it with that perception and that other readers might care more about other aspects, and thus be unsatisfied.
My own expectations when reading Captive Prince have shifted over time, which derives from the fact that I started reading it a few years ago when it only existed as an online serial. This was when it was universally presented as a prime example of “slavefic” (which it is, but at the same time isn’t!). For the longest time, I hesitated to read it despite the reviews because I thought it would fall victim to the worst dangers of that genre, one of which is, in my opinion, that some authors (not all) treat relationships that are disturbing/abusive as if they were romantic. The story summaries that were available at the time strengthened my impression that CP might go down that feared line, and I believe they did it a great disservice because, although they did summarize the beginning, they were in a way misleading about what the story actually is about. Later, I gave in to the recommendations and I began reading with low expectations and lots of suspicion and, sure enough, the beginning made me worried with all the torture and non-con aspects. Only after it took off in a completely different –and utterly satisfying for me– direction did I change my expectations to “romance novel featuring some slavery themes.” A re-reading of the beginning, now fully aware it was not the specific type of “slavefic” I find disturbing, improved my appreciation of it and made me raise my general expectations. As far as I’ve learned, many of the earlier readers underwent a similar type of opinion shift of what CP’s genre is as they read on.
I assume expectations for readers who have come to the book in published form might be different, especially for those who haven’t been involved in lengthy discussions about it. It’s not presented as “slavefic” anymore, or even as a regular m/m romance (e.g. the covers don’t feature one of those ubiquitous bare torsos that inundate the genre). For that matter, the blurbs don’t really indicate UST-y romance is the main feature, unlike many romance books do, but focus on talking of a decadent court full of intrigue. It makes sense that casual readers would come expecting extensive worldbuilding of a fantasy setting and “lots of court intrigue with maybe some romance” instead of “romance with some intrigue.” In any case, I find Captive Prince surprisingly difficult to catalogue, for some reason.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 10:48:00
@Neri:
Agreed.
I think the first half of Vol. 1 is misleading whether you read a summary or read the actual text.
That happened to me too.
Yes and no. Your points about the covers and blurbs are good ones, but the initial impression the book makes also determines what readers think. And when one starts reading Captive Prince, it is hard not to make the assumption that what one is reading is some kind of disturbing, even creepy, erotica. It is not until the story turns and after reading Vol 2. that we realize it’s intended to be something very different.
If you read this spoiler-filled discussion on Vacuous Minx, you will see that new readers of the ebooks also make the assumption that it is disturbing slavefic, and not without reason. It is hard to convince some of them that continuing to read is worthwhile.
I think one of the reasons for this is that Captive Prince is published in volumes. I see Vol. 1 as the first act of a long novel, and Vol. 2 as the second act. But if one approaches Vol. 1 as a novel, it is a problematic one in some ways. (Again I refer you to the Vacuous Minx discussion I linked to above). Vol. 1 by itself does not read like a romance, or like the thoughtful novel Captive Prince becomes if you read both volumes. For this reason I really wish Pacat had published everything in one volume.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 12:28:00
@Janine:
I read part of that conversation at VacuousMinx a couple days ago, though I didn’t participate. Many interesting new opinions have been posted since I last read it. Thanks for reminding me of it!
I agree with your points, although I was thinking more of readers’ expectations before they even start reading, taken from the promotional materials and/or more or less arbitrary assumptions, which might also shape the way they react to the way it begins.
While it’s likely many readers will be disturbed by the first few chapters no matter what, earlier expectations might factor in their decision to give it a chance. If I had arrived expecting a good-quality, fascinating romance, I might have decided to stop right when certain events happen that seem to cancel out the possibility of a good non-disturbing romance ever developing between Damen and Laurent. I kept going because my expectations were low to begin with due to factors that are in good part external and unrelated to the novel itself (i.e. a few bad experiences with the genre it was advertised as). I must admit that for a while I kept reading just to have and informed confirmation of my low expectations. Then it turned out my negative assumptions were wrong, which prompted me to re-read with a more positive mindset. If I had arrived with high expectations to begin with, I might not have had the patience/trust in the author to persevere until the point they’re met.
This probably says more about me as a reader than anything else, as other readers might have more patience than I do, or know beforehand that Things Are Not as They Seem, or have trusted friends that insist they should give it a chance (coincidentally, a circumstance many fans mention as the one reason they didn’t give up).
Couldn’t agree more.
I believe the decision to have two volumes was in part due to the inexperience that comes with a first self-publishing, and in part due to practical matters, mainly the fear readers wouldn’t want to dish out the price for a bigger and more expensive Part1+2 Volume. That was, as a matter of fact, the reason the extras weren’t included in the printed version. I had a very brief exchange with Pacat on her blog, where we agreed the extra 19 ½ chapter in Volume 2 contains enough interesting characterization to make it more than an ebook-only filler. Erasmus’ backstory is also quite elucidating, no matter how disturbing, as was discussed in VacuousMinx’s thread. I believe the printed edition might have benefitted from having it included, so as to not leave any readers with an incomplete picture. It seems price concerns had a great part in these publishing decisions that, while understandable, are not the best from a narrative point of view.
EDIT: Managed to add italics to quotes. It kept eating the tags up for some reason.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 13:13:54
I’ve written another even longer, even more spoiler-filled post about the book, this time about the slavery and slavefic issues specifically. I don’t think it’s doing this book’s potential audience any favors to keep arguing to the book isn’t slavefic and doesn’t have slavery as a major component. Some people are not going to want to read that and they deserve the information.
Saying the book falls within the larger category of slavefic is a description, not a pejorative dismissal. Sure, there’s bad slavefic out there, and sure, this book is about more than slavery. But it has slavery as a key component. The central romantic relationship begins that way. A supporting character rejects the idea of freedom because he thinks he is more suited to be a slave. The author has described the story that way, and her inclusion of the Erasmus short extra in the Vol. 1 ebook suggests that she’s not trying to pretend that it isn’t there.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 13:20:49
@Sunita: That’s a fair and valid statement. IMO it’s probably accurate to say that it is a slavefic (though that’s not a genre I’m very familiar with), but also something more.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 13:57:33
@Sunita:
The slavery is definitely there, you’re right, and the way it’s presented right at the beginning is potentially very disturbing (especially Erasmus). That’s something that comes up in most discussions, so I believe potential readers will easily come accross it and a variety of opinions too.
However, I found in Volume 2 the slavery factor goes into the background and turns into something that is only slavery in name and very little in the spirit things are. Also I had the feeling the romance only becomes a factor after slavery has turned into that something else. Volume 1, where the explicit slave themes are mostly located, has absolutely nothing I call romantic in it. So I don’t think it’s fully accurate to say the romance starts with the slavery, even though the slavery is certainly part of its context.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 14:33:57
@Neri:
In time that may be true. At the moment, however, there are very few mixed or negative reviews at either Amazon or Goodreads, and at Amazon the two negative reviews (out of a total of 83 for both volumes) are getting hammered in comments. So at the moment, the new reader is going to get an overwhelmingly positive picture. Yes, some of the reviews talk about the brutal aspects of the early chapters of Vol. 1, but some are frankly misleading, however unintentionally.
I agree that there is nothing romantic in Vol. 1. But there is growing UST in Vol. 1, and the vicarious blowjob scene (which I consider noncon) has been described as “hot” by any number of GR commentators. And given that the scene has also been described as really being between Laurent and Damen, I would say that if not their romance, their sexual attraction clearly starts when Damen is enslaved and resisting it.
For me, slavery in name is still slavery. Slavery in the background is still slavery. I understand that it’s different for you with respect to this story.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 14:42:46
I agree 100%. I would ask that everyone mark or hide spoilers. I also want to add this:
Mar 14, 2013 @ 14:48:39
I wonder if length was another concern. I expect that all 3 volumes may well add up to 800 pages in length, and that is a daunting length for many readers, including myself. I might not have picked it up had the whole thing been published in one volume, and yet, I agree with you that it would have been best to include everything in one place. Dividing the book into sections is a problem in more than one regard.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 14:57:26
@Janine:
I’ve been following this drama along with very little to say, but now I do!
From having been through this dilemma with a book that could have been broken into three parts (and some readers who still believe I should have), that DID add up to over 800 pages (with tiny type), that DOES intimidate people because of its length…
I chose to go with one big volume specifically BECAUSE I didn’t want to have the issues of “Well, you really have to read the second volume to get it.” And then after that’s done, “Well, you really have to read the third to get it.” This refrain is annoying even to me, who never had any intention of reading it anyway.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 15:00:47
@Moriah Jovan: A wise decision. I think that refrain is annoying to all of us, even those of us who keep repeating it.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 15:47:07
@Sunita: @Janine:
Physical attraction started earlier (at least on one side). It did not bother me it happened in a slavery context, as I thought it wasn’t meant to be appealing in the slightest. It would have creeped me out greatly, though, if there had been actual romantic feelings during that part of the story. I personally don’t put willingly paying lip service to the master/slave roles (especially in a case where power differences have blurred dramatically) in the same category as actual slavery (where the slave is ultimately in a state of absolute indefension, e.g. Erasmus, whose personality is one of the parts that make me uncomfortable). However, I can understand how others have different standards and limits of what is acceptable in such a sensitive theme, and how it might be a deal-breaker for some.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 15:49:08
I don’t know if this point has been made but as an outsider looking in, and having read many, many articles on rape culture and Robin’s wonderful essays on the captivity narrative, it’s got me wondering: If this was a m/f, with the female being the rapee/slave, would the people who like/love this book like/love it as much?
Mar 14, 2013 @ 15:52:39
@Moriah Jovan:
Thank you. I was wondering the exact same thing.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 16:06:45
@Moriah Jovan & @Dhympna: : I will reply but it requires a hiding of spoilers.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 16:14:56
@Janine:
Thanks, Janine.
After reading your spoilers, I, for one, would sell my soul to read a heroine in either role.
The way I’m looking at this discussion, the constellation of issues is a constellation of double-standards and touches on Da Rulez. Heroine can’t do this. Heroine can’t do that. Heroine has to be immediately identifiable. Heroine has to be likable.
Seems to me women get the shaft on all sorts of different levels (simultaneously) whether they’re included or not.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 16:19:24
@Moriah Jovan:Agreed. I wish these double standards didn’t exist. If you write it, I will read it!
Mar 14, 2013 @ 16:20:28
@Janine:
Hmmm. I did. :) Try this.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 16:22:25
@Moriah Jovan: Cool! When will it be pubbed?
Mar 14, 2013 @ 16:24:37
@Janine: July 4. I didn’t mean to make it about me.
I am making it about the fact that if either male in this series was a female, there would be torches and pitchforks, if anyone bothered to read it at all.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 16:29:34
@Moriah Jovan: Probably. And it would be harder to pull off, that’s for sure, esp. with the unreliable POV.
ETA: I’ll look forward to July 4.
Mar 14, 2013 @ 17:06:23
@Moriah Jovan:
I agree with Janine that a female character would hardly fit in Damen’s role, although not so much because of the things she could or couldn’t do as opposed to a man, but because the story depends a lot on the specific traits of the main characters’ personalities and decision-making style, some of which would feel forced in a female character.
Now, assuming we got it all to work with a female Damen, there would probably be pitchforks, yes, though I don’t think I would raise mine if that was the only change.
I’m simplifying a lot, but generally much less agression is needed before we see the character as a victim when she’s a woman, basically because women tend to be presented as weaker characters in general and in a perpetual need to be defended (another problem worth its own separate discussion). But, to me, if said woman was like Damen (a.k.a strong, self-possessed, capable, Laurent’s equal in everything but current status, etc., all things a female character could certainly be), I don’t think I would be more disturbed by what happened. Or perhaps it would be a little harder to read, but only because, being a woman myself, I might feel identified with her more easily. In any case, as long as the rape/abuse were still not presented under a romantic light and her feminity wasn’t shown in an insulting, demeaning way (the same way Damen’s masculinity is not), I would probably keep the torches for another occasion. This is a touchy subject, so I can’t vouch for any other readers, though.
Captive Prince | Jorrie Spencer
Mar 15, 2013 @ 13:12:54
[...] Janine reviews Captive Prince at Dear Author [...]
Mar 15, 2013 @ 21:40:04
@CD: I was going to recommend Carol Berg’s Transformation to people who like this. I think it is actually a better book, but I did like Captive Prince quite a lot. On the other hand, I didn’t think Captive Prince was much like Swordspoint. (For what it’s worth, I only liked Swordspoint when I re-read it after reading The Privilege of the Sword.)
Reply
Mar 15, 2013 @ 23:01:04
@etv13: Glad you liked Captive Prince. I haven’t read Transformation, but have you looked at Jorrie Spencer’s thread (linked to in the comment just above yours)? She is asking for recommendations of books similar to Captive Prince, so I thought it might interest you.
Mar 16, 2013 @ 01:03:59
@Moriah Jovan, Janine: The comments at Jorrie Spencer’s site reminded me that perhaps the closest thing to a male/female relationship like the one in Captive Prince is Gen and Irene in Megan Whalen Turner’s The Queen of Attolia.
@Janine:
Mar 16, 2013 @ 10:13:08
@etv13:
Agreed re Gen and Irene! I thought of them too, when Moriah made her comment, but didn’t want to post a spoiler for the Turner series.
Re. Damen and Laurent:
Mar 16, 2013 @ 11:51:42
@Janine: I don’t see how you can draw a moral equivalence between the effects of Damen’s actions on Laurent and Laurent’s actions toward Damen. I’ll put the rest under a spoiler tag.
Mar 16, 2013 @ 12:53:43
@etv13: Putting it on my TBR now. Thanks!
Mar 16, 2013 @ 13:09:21
@Sunita:
Mar 16, 2013 @ 13:11:50
@Moriah Jovan: Start with book 2, The Queen of Attolia, and then go to book 3, The King of Attolia. That’s where the romance begins.
Mar 16, 2013 @ 13:27:54
@Janine: Nothing you have written provides convincing evidence to me that I should change my position.
I agree to disagree.
Mar 16, 2013 @ 13:34:08
@Sunita: Fair enough.
Mar 16, 2013 @ 17:08:23
@Neri:
Of course not :)
That’s my jist of it. The author is a wonderful writer but didn’t use the genre to her full potential. In my eyes she used a sparse amount that was beyond basic. The story was more character-driven but for me if this was a contemporary book I’d probably have loved it.
Is this considered a contemporary fantasy? Is that a genre? See this is where I have to disagree fantasy is complex and not simple. That’s why it is such a beautiful genre in my eyes. Complex doesn’t mean going around in circles and not making sense, but it also doesn’t mean using the usual tropes and not expanding which I believe happened here. I personally can’t understand wanting a simple fantasy story, but I understand it obviously worked for a lot of people.
I think you were much more emotionally connected with the characters, and that is what I lacked whilst reading this book too. I just didn’t find them interesting nor original – they suffered the same way the story did to – it was basic. Too basic. They were simple in their emotions and their intent and it was just too typical for me. I needed more originality which I personally didn’t find.
You are indeed right, but alas for me it just comes down to this – too simple. The story and the characters, the ideas and the message. It wasn’t a romance not in vol. 1 so I went into this hoping for a fantasy book and didn’t get that. Even with vol. 2 when the characters start easing “into” each other it still isn’t a romance, and tbh I didn’t really buy into their emotions for each other in vol. 2. As I said, I did prefer Vol. 2 over Vol.1 but it lacked everything for me (except the actual writing). I’m not sure if that even makes sense to anyone, but alas it isn’t as good as I thought it’d be and unfortunately I got into the hype and was left a little disappointed. I know a few people have come out and said ‘no’ to this book, but I definitely don’t think I’m missing something here – it just wasn’t as good as I thought it’d be and it did have potential.
Mar 16, 2013 @ 17:09:57
Just finished CAPTIVE PRINCE and, like most people who commented here, I loved it.
I probably wasn’t as impressed by the plot itself or the worldbuilding as Janine – I found the plot fairly predictable and the worldbuilding rather generic, but then I am a fantasy geek so am used to a bit more sophistication in those areas. And there’s nothing wrong with predictable if it’s done well – I read romance afterall… However, like another poster here, what you get in compensation is the increased laser-focus on the relationship between the two protagonists and that’s what made me burn through the pages like rubber.
If you are looking for something to feed your fix until 2014, I would highly recommend Turner’s THE QUEEN’S THIEF series as well as Kushner’s SWORDPOINT where the central relationships have a number of similarities. If you are willing to go (a lot) darker and forgo a romantic HEA, then I would recommend Monette’s DOCTRINE OF THE LABYRINTH and Pinto’s STONE DANCE OF THE CHAMELEON. Berg’s TRANSFORMATION also has a central focus on the developing relationship also between a prince and a slave, although the relationship is non-romantic.
Mar 16, 2013 @ 17:44:35
@cs: I’m sorry my recommendation didn’t work out for you. I totally bought into the protagonists’ feelings and for me, in Vol. 2 it turned into one of the most romantic books I’ve read, but tastes differ and I can tell you were very disappointed. I am sorry for that. I hope you find a book you like better to cleanse your palate!
@CD: So glad you loved the book. I wasn’t actually impressed by the worldbuilding, As I said in the review that I would have loved to see the world fleshed out more — and I expounded on that in the discussion on Sunita’s blog.
The plotting blew me away though — the red herrings and misdirections tricked me, and I was completely surprised at several points in Vol. 2 (In the second half of Vol. 1, what was going on was much clearer to me). The twist at the end of Vol. 2 was, for me, one of those freak out moment someone mentioned above.
I would love to hear more of your thoughts about the Laurent/Damen relationship. Did you find Vol. 2 romantic?
Thanks so much for the recommendations. Agree completely with the Queen’s Thief series, but I have not read the others. I don’t know if I’d risk forgoing a happy ending. Jorrie Spencer is collecting recommendations of books similar to Captive Thief here, so you might check that out for more suggestions, or to offer your own, if you’d like.
Mar 16, 2013 @ 18:15:50
@cs:
“I just didn’t find them interesting nor original – they suffered the same way the story did to – it was basic. Too basic. They were simple in their emotions and their intent and it was just too typical for me. I needed more originality which I personally didn’t find.”
I agree that the characters weren’t particularly original – damaged machiavellian chessmaster paired with straight-talking soldier is a well worn trope. As is the unknown enemies becoming lovers/friends and the prince forced down to the level of a slave and then working his way back up. However, there’s a reason why these plot tropes and character archetypes are still around – because they work.
I would never say that CAPTIVE PRINCE is the best book I’ve ever read – but it’s an effective one and it’s definitely rare to find such a focus on the central relationship, which the romance reader in me definitely appreciated.
@etv13:
I think the similarity with Kushner’s SWORDPOINT is probably more with the central relationships. There are lots of differences as well: Richard and Alec are a lot more dysfunctional and anti-heroic than Damen and Laurent – but they have a similar dynamic. I actually thought THE PRIVILEGE OF THE SWORD was rather bland – I only read the Richard/Alec bits to be honest: “I brought us some fish” [sigh] ;-)… I can see that it is more accessible though as the main characters are more conventionally sympathetic and it is a good coming of age story.
Berg’s TRANSFORMATION is definitely a more original book than CAPTIVE PRINCE. Also, the slavery part of it is a lot more painful although not as graphic – Seyonne has been a slave for 16 years so has already been beaten down by abuse and rape from the start so a large part of the book, and his relationship with Aleksander, is about him rediscovering his worth as a man and not a slave. There are definitely flaws – I found the second half not to be as strong as the first – but the ending definitely redeemed itself. And the fact that it was a self-contained fantasy – very rare, that.
Mar 16, 2013 @ 18:49:44
@Janine:
Regarding your spoiler – I would probably agree with you upon reflection. Certainly, I don’t believe there would have been any doubt by volume 2.
And yes, I did find volume 2 to be romantic and in the best way. If I had to find fault, then the progression from enmity to wary friendship was a little rushed at the beginning, but I absolutely loved the love scene. And in terms of the plotting, the last twist in volume 2 actually did surprise me. I found the rest of the plotting a bit blah and same old same old but I just focused on the relationship. However, I’ve read so many fantasies small band of protagonists fighting an enemy against the odds etc etc that not much surprises me anymore.
Mar 16, 2013 @ 19:55:37
@CD
But I’m not saying anything about the trope in itself, I am talking about actually being original with that trope. Taking the basic and pushing it’s limits. I know this is subjective and I’m not implying my way is the right way. For me I didn’t feel the story even attempted even a little in doing something with that trope. I need one or the other (if I can’t get both). I either need that connection with the characters or the story. I got neither unfortunately.
I’m confused that people see this as a romance personally. I think this the road block I have with fans of this book. Everyone talks about the romance and whilst it was obvious these two would end up together someway or another, I definitely don’t look at this as a romance. Not in vol. 1 and not until later in vol. 2 when Damen and Laurent progress. Personally I think a lot is forgiven because we’re told they hate each other (their cultures hate each other and for good reason). So maybe that’s why (and I’m not implying yourself here) don’t hold either man’s distaste (or Laurent’s hate) for each other. Personally I just don’t buy it – and it probably seems like I dislike this book, nope I enjoy it for what it is really a simple and no fuss read. I personally wanted the story more than the romance – and a better build up to the romance which made me believe in it. I didn’t get that so I was disconnected with every element in the books.
Oh no, really? I can’t say that is rarity for me. I definitely come across badly drawn characters but I have more experiences with a lack of story than I do a lack of relationship.
Mar 16, 2013 @ 20:03:00
@Janine: Oh no, I bought this book awhile ago (before your review) – and I was interested in reading your opinion. I’m glad you loved it and I definitely didn’t hate this book at all. In some ways I was disappointed in it but I just didn’t go into reading it as a romance, which seems to be the actual crux of the matter. I’m looking forward to vol. 3 because I liked the way vol. 2 ended. I just didn’t have the big “feels” for it. Tastes do differ and I’m sorry if my comments brought the party down. I know it isn’t cool to have some come wading in saying well it wasn’t really that great ;)
Mar 16, 2013 @ 22:24:45
@cs: No, no, don’t apologize! It is always a good thing for readers to have more than one perspective, and I’m glad you are sharing yours!
Mar 17, 2013 @ 01:20:37
@cs:
I’m not CD but I’ve been thinking about how I would answer this. I agree that the relationship is not romantic in Vol. 1, but I also feel that Pacat draws on set up from Vol. 1 to build the romance in Vol. 2. For me the turning point toward romantic feelings in Damen happens in Chapters 5-8 of Vol. 2 (20%-36% of the way into Vol. 2).
Mar 17, 2013 @ 06:03:02
@cs:
I loved the books but that’s because those tropes work for me and I don’t necessarily need originality for me to be emotionally engaged with the characters. Maybe it’s because I went into the books expecting the central focus to be the relationship/romance, as opposed to highly intricate and original plotting/world building, and that’s what I got. Cue satisfaction. Yes, I didn’t find the characters to be Robin Hobb/George r r Martin levels of complexity, but the were interesting enough for me to keep me emotionally engaged. And I love the tropes they are based on, well-worn as they may be.
When I mentioned the “rare” focus, I meant as compared to normal fantasy. I read romance because of that laser focus – and that’s why to me, this is a romance. My impression is that the plotting and the setting has been set up to propel that central relationship – that the author started with that relationship and then built the plot and setting to facilitate it. That’s something that’s only really done in a romance, and what makes it different from other genres where that relationship, if it even exists, is secondary. And that’s why I love romance.
Mar 17, 2013 @ 11:43:00
Mar 17, 2013 @ 13:57:59
@leela:
Mar 17, 2013 @ 16:54:56
@leela & @bx — I hope you guys don’t mind that I hid the spoilers in your posts. Please keep posting if you’re so inclined, I’ll just bury spoilers if I see them.
Mar 18, 2013 @ 03:42:51
@ Janine: I think The Queen of Attolia is plenty romantic, actually, while most of the stuff you refer to in Captive Prince strikes me as more Sabatini-esque action/adventure than romance. They’re the parts of Captive Prince that I really enjoyed, though — the humor, the sense that Laurent and Damen are, in fact, equally matched, the derring-do. It’s not just angsty, it’ also fun.
@CD: Transformation’s title is even more multi-valenced than Captive Prince’s. Both Seyonne and Aleksander are transformed, and in more than one sense. One of the great things about the book is that even when Seyonne is really beaten down by his experiences, he still has this very dry wit. I suppose we ought to warn those strange people who don’t like first-person narratives that Transformation is one; to me Seyonne’s voice is part of its greatness.
Mar 18, 2013 @ 04:04:50
@Janine: I started off thinking that but I think it *could* have worked if Laurent were female. I don’t think it could have worked if Damen were the female. I only think this because Laurent is full of surprises and a female Laurent doing those things would have been quite surprising in context. I’m not sure whether in the Veretian society a woman can even inherit however. Because Laurent is so captive to his situation, he is forced to be very controlled and scheming and I think that kind of harks back to the idea of feminine manipulation. Personally I dislike the idea that it is inherently “female” to be so (in my experience it is not the case in any event) and I do not see Laurent as at all female. But, given that historically, in our society, women have often been in positions where they could not fight openly and *had* to be subversive, I *could* potentially see Laurent’s character as female.
But I can’t see it being easily accepted by a reading audience for a male to suffer the physical abuses Damen suffers at the hands of Laurent and still believe in the romance. And it is difficult for me to see a female Damen being accepted as a leader of men in battle, particularly in the Veretian society as I understand it (which may ultimately be the main reason that Laurent would not work as a female).
Mar 18, 2013 @ 04:24:44
@leela: See, I’d feel exactly the opposite of you in that situation. Were it the reverse, I’d feel betrayed.
Mar 18, 2013 @ 04:32:59
The other thing I wanted to mention is that, while Laurent is *extremely* clever, he is only 20. He’s a very young man. Damen compares him with Aimeric at one point and realises there is less than 6 months difference in their ages. Laurent has had to be controlled and grown up but he is still, nevertheless, very young. Sometimes, it shows. I think this is a very clever thing the author has done, myself.
Mar 18, 2013 @ 04:40:58
Can I talk a bit about Erasmus?
Also, can I just say that before today, I’d never heard of “slavefic”?
Okay, I’ll stop for a while now! :D
Mar 18, 2013 @ 07:57:32
@etv13: Did I say The Queen of Attolia wasn’t romantic? I don’t recall saying that. I agree The Queen of Attolia is plenty romantic, but I think I am unusual in that I actually found The King of Attolia more romantic.
While I agree that Captive Prince has a lot of action adventure, I found it incredibly romantic. Partly because of Damen’s slow discovery of Laurent, partly because the enmity was so great, partly because the two characters were so vulnerable to one another, and partly because it explores a plethora of themes that I love. I listed them earlier in the thread but I will list again.
They are: power vs. vulnerability, displacement in a foreign culture vs. acclimation to that society, loyalty to country vs. loyalty to other people, betrayal/distrust vs. loyalty/trust, war vs. peace, the differences between people’s exteriors and their interiors, and moral ambiguity.
Most of these are conflicts that, if well handled, on their own can make a romance more romantic to me, but to find them all in one book makes me swoon.
@Kaetrin: Interesting re. Laurent and gender. The main reason I don’t agree is:
I will reply to your other comments later.
Mar 18, 2013 @ 10:55:02
So many interesting comments! I fell hard for this book, and was a bit surprised that I did, because I balked at the premise, as presented at the beginning of volume 1.
Regarding gender, I don’t think you can just swap out a woman’s body for a man’s (either Damen or Laurent) and have the same story, no. But, I would have absolutely enjoyed a story which was built on this kind of dynamic and one was a woman. I guess I don’t believe this being m/m was essential for my reading of it. At least that’s my take.
Mar 18, 2013 @ 11:38:13
@etv13:
I really have to reread TRANSFORMATION – it’s really a great book. And yes, it is both Aleksander and Seyonne who are transformed, at times literally… I thought the later books were not as strong but they do move the plot in interesting ways.
Another master-slave relationship that I remember reading years and years ago was Feist and Wurts’ EMPIRE trilogy beginning with DAUGHTER OF THE EMPIRE. It’s set in a pseudo-ancient Japan with the protagonist being a Ruling Lady who has to survive and thrive in the poisonous and ruthless Game of the Council, and basically gives as good as she takes doing quite a lot of what we would consider morally reprehensible things but which work as part of the setting. In the second book, she acquires and then falls in love with a captured slave who is a soldier from a more conventional “Western” fantasy world. If I remember correctly, I think she initially uses him to introduce her to good sex so that her enemies would not be able to use her body against her.
I remember getting irritated by the developing romance when I was teenager – seeing it as weakening her, which was even more of an issue given that it was both a man and a “Westerner” doing so. However, I could have been rather too sensitive to those things at that time. The trilogy isn’t exactly high art and there’s more than a hint of orientalism there, but it’s fun and probably at the same level as CAPTIVE PRINCE but with rather better worldbuilding and plotting.
@Janine:
Well, I felt that Laurent’s scheming was more of an informed ability – something that was told to us by the author/unreliable narrator rather than shown. The main reason is that the worldbuilding lacked detail and resonance and there wasn’t that much development of any other characters apart from the two protagonists. Therefore, you don’t get a sense of the political and military environment, or understand the difficulty that needed to be overcome. It’s a bit like reading a murder mystery where the master sleuth suddenly pulls out the whodunnit from thin air without the narration giving the necessary clues beforehand ie OK but not particularly impressive.
In terms of gender – I don’t see why you you couldn’t have a women in either/both of those roles. That’s the great thing about fantasy is that you can create a world in which that is plausible and, if you want to make the characters sympathetic (which you don’t necessarily have to do) then you can create circumstances to do that. It’s all about setting and storytelling.
One of my favourite fantasy series is Michelle Sagara West’s THE SUNDERED (starting from INTO THE DARKLANDS). At the centre is a dark romance between Stephanos, First of the Dark (basically a God), and Erin/Sara who is the champion of Light. If I remember, when they first meet, he kills her entire platoon and then proceeds to flay the skin off of her bones and feeds off of her pain – not exactly a “meet cute”. However, by the end of the series, I felt it was one of the most intense and tragic romances that I had ever read. It’s one of those books that made me think a lot about what love actually was and what you would be prepared to sacrifice for it.
Mar 18, 2013 @ 13:31:31
@CD: Ha, and then there’s me, who very much appreciates that Laurent, as someone I starting the book holding in contempt, actually earned my respect in spite of what the POV had to say about him. (Whereas Lymond, for example, has never worked for me fully.)
I go back and forth on how the story would work with women as the protagonists instead of men. I think the writing would have to frame some of their vulnerabilities more carefully, because of the stereotypes they invoke for women. But if someone *could* pull it off, that someone would probably be my hero.
Mar 18, 2013 @ 14:30:17
So many comments to respond to! I’ll take them one or two at a time, with breaks in between, but I promise to respond.
@Kaetrin:
I agree with your spoiler re. Laurent. I posted some of my theory on that earlier, in the hidden spoiler within comment #90.
Agreed! I love it when his youth and inexperience show. And that comparison to Aimeric was so well done.
Mar 18, 2013 @ 16:11:54
@Kaetrin: I’ll reply to your Erasmus comments later — I think it’s an interesting topic and I’m glad you brought it up.
@Jorrie Spencer:
You have a point.
@CD:
While I agree that the world-building could have been better developed, I feel that Laurent’s brilliance was shown, not just told. And I did have a pretty good grasp on the difficulty that needed to be overcome, thanks to the villain’s actions. That’s not to say that I wouldn’t have gotten enjoyment out of more details about the political and military environment, just that the absence of these things did not impede me in the way it did you.
I think you recommended this book on the AAR boards many years ago, and I have been intrigued by it ever since (I post there as LFL). And Sagara is one of Jia’s favorite authors as well.
Thanks to your recommendation, I actually snapped up Into the Dark Lands in a kindle sale a year or so ago, but I’ll confess that the prospect of a tragic ending has held me back from reading it. Can you give me a spoiler — is the ending nihilistic or is there hope left even though something bad happens?
Back to Captive Prince, since it sounds like you see it as fun, not too deep read, I wonder what you think of the thematic richness I mentioned before? Because it seems to me that in terms of its themes this book is complex and thoughtful.
@bx:
Have you read Megan Whalen Turner’s The Queen of Attolia and The King of Attolia? These books are the closest thing I can think of to Captive Prince with a male/female dynamic — but without slavery and no explicit sex. They are fabulous books and I highly recommend them, if you haven’t.
Mar 18, 2013 @ 18:32:42
@Janine: I can see a “female Laurent” doing those things actually. I would have bought them – it’s hard to know obviously, but I think I could have gone with it quite well. I read and enjoyed the Janny Wurts series Daughter of the Empire (et al) and the slave owner there was a female. She was always in charge, as I recall, even after she got together with the guy.
I also agree with Jorrie Spencer, I don’t think males and females can just be swapped out. But, I could imagine a similar story where the “Laurent character” (ie, the slave owner) was a female. It would obviously be a different story (at least in part) because gender identity matters.
Mar 18, 2013 @ 23:13:53
@Kaetrin:
It was a new term for me as well. I’m usually very discomfited by romances with slavery in them so it’s not a genre that I seek out.
Mar 19, 2013 @ 00:14:59
@Janine: I read the first Megan Whelan Turner book a few years ago but only found out recently that the others are not written in the same style, which seems like a sign that I should continue. The comparison to Captive Prince is certainly a good endorsement of that!
Mar 19, 2013 @ 00:18:07
@Janine:
Mar 19, 2013 @ 02:16:19
@Janine: You advised Moriah to “start with book 2 . . . Then go to book 3 . . . That’s where the romance begins.” I took that to mean you didn’t think there was much, if any, romance in book 2. I’m glad you think there is. There are parts of King of Attolia I really love (e.g., when Gen comes to the door in his robe), but Queen and Conspiracy are neck and neck for my favorites in the series.
Mar 19, 2013 @ 03:34:30
@etv13: Is it necessary/advisable to read book 1? Is there no romance in that one?
Mar 19, 2013 @ 09:37:12
I’m going to tackle the Megan Whalen Turner topic in one comment and Erasmus in another, later. I’ll start with MWT.
@bx: Yeah, the first Megan Whalen Turner book is very different from the rest. It’s a middle grade book whereas the others are YAs that cross over to adult readers. There is also no romance in the first book, and very little in the way of female characters for much of the story. That changes when you get into book 2.
What I often advise romance readers to do is skip the first one and then backtrack to reading it after reading #2 and #3. Then, after reading #1, read #4, which is all about Sophos, a character who appears in #1 but not in #2 or #3. Since you’ve read #1 already, I would say just read #2, #3 and #4 in order, unless you want to refresh your memory.
Those books are wonderful– I have reviews of all of them here at DA which you can find linked at the top of this review (though I don’t advise reading any further than the review of the first book you have not read and plan to read).
I would probably grade them a bit higher today than I did when I first read them, because like Captive Prince, they have twists that make a second reading just as satisfying as the first.
@etv13: That was bad wording on my part in my advice to Moriah. I meant that she should skip book #1 because there is no romance in it, and not much in the way of women.
Having said that, The King of Attolia is my favorite, then The Queen of Attolia, and then A Conspiracy of Kings. I love all three of those. My grade for Queen doesn’t reflect that, though. I came to love it much more in rereadings than I did on the first read, and I reviewed it immediately after the first read.
@Kaetrin: Not etv13 but I’ll answer anyway. That is correct — no romance in book 1. And it is written for younger kids (middle grade, on par with the first Harry Potter book in reading level, though very very different from Harry Potter). It also has a slow paced first half. I did end up liking it anyway, and you can read my review of it here, but I know a lot of people, who, like bx above, never go on to book 2, and some (like DA Jayne) don’t even finish book 1.
There is a twist that comes late in book 1, so if you want to read the books in order, don’t read reviews of book 2, as the twist from #1 will be revealed there. However if book 1 doesn’t sound like your cup of tea (if you don’t care for slow-starting kids’ books or for books without romance), then read a review or two of book 1 and then go straight to book 2.
I think my review of books one and two is spoiler free, but it is best not to read the blurb on the back of book two and to avoid reviews of it, because that might spoil it for you. I would say that of all of MWT’s books, actually. They rely a lot on surprises.
So, to sum up, the reading order I recommend to romance readers is as follows:
Book #2 — The Queen of Attolia
Book #3 – The King of Attolia
Book #1 — The Thief
Book # 4 – A Conspiracy of Kings
You can read them in publishing order if you think you’d enjoy #1 but I enjoyed it more after reading #2 and #3 because by then I was a huge fan of the main character.
Mar 19, 2013 @ 14:33:25
@Kaetrin: I feel my enjoyment of book 2 was heightened because I had read book 1 first, but Janine is right, there is no romance in book 1. I disagree that it starts slow; I was about three pages in when I realized I was going to have to go back to the library and get the rest of the series (at the time, that was only two more). I really enjoyed the narrative voice — it’s a first-person narration by one of the main characters in the series, while books 2 and 3 are mostly close third that shifts around quite a bit (in one key scene in book 2, the viewpoint shifts several times in the course of a couple of pages, which in the hands of a less skillful writer would draw a lot of criticism). Also, it has a twist that you will lose the benefit of if you’ve already read books two and three.
Mar 19, 2013 @ 16:04:26
@Janine:
“While I agree that the world-building could have been better developed, I feel that Laurent’s brilliance was shown, not just told. And I did have a pretty good grasp on the difficulty that needed to be overcome, thanks to the villain’s actions. That’s not to say that I wouldn’t have gotten enjoyment out of more details about the political and military environment, just that the absence of these things did not impede me in the way it did you.”
Fair enough. I have no problem with Laurent being very clever as a character trait – as I wasn’t reading the books for the political or military strategizing, that wasn’t too much of an issue for me in terms of enjoyment. I do read a lot of fantasy where intrigue and strategy played a lot more of a focus, so I’m probably a lot more demanding in those areas than the average reader.
“I actually snapped up Into the Dark Lands in a kindle sale a year or so ago, but I’ll confess that the prospect of a tragic ending has held me back from reading it. Can you give me a spoiler — is the ending nihilistic or is there hope left even though something bad happens?”
If you are planning to read INTO THE DARK LANDS, I would highly recommend having CHILDREN OF THE BLOOD to hand as well as there is a huge cliffhanger at the end of the first book.
Just to let you know that INTO THE DARK LANDS is the first book that Michelle West wrote and it shows – her later books are a lot better written and have more consistent pace and plotting. However, I love the series because of the tight focus on the central relationship and how West almost feverishly (and fearlessly) dives into a huge number of really meaty themes and ideas.
“Back to Captive Prince, since it sounds like you see it as fun, not too deep read, I wonder what you think of the thematic richness I mentioned before? Because it seems to me that in terms of its themes this book is complex and thoughtful.”
To be honest, yes. I loved the developing relationship between the two heroes and the plot was serviceable enough that it kept me reading. But to me, the world that Pacat created never really felt like a real world that would exist independent of those two characters and their relationship. Therefore, with most of the themes and ideas – I felt that they lacked the resonance and complexity that they would have done if her worldbuilding were richer.
@Kaetrin:
“I read and enjoyed the Janny Wurts series Daughter of the Empire (et al) and the slave owner there was a female. She was always in charge, as I recall, even after she got together with the guy.”
I really did like the series – it was written about 20 years ago and one of the first mainstream fantasies which had a female protagonist who wasn’t a warrior or sorcerer but a woman using her intelligence to survive and thrive in a hostile male-dominated political world. And you are right – Mara’s relationship with her slave didn’t threaten her authority and she actually used his military expertise and outlandish “barbarian ideas” a number of times if I remember, much like Laurent uses Damen’s. But I felt that his questioning of some of her actions made her rethink her own culture and ideas – and it felt like it was in some ways undermining her own strength. However, thinking about it, maybe this is a bit of reverse sexism/cultural-ism in that I would have had absolutely no problem if it were a female “Asian” slave making her male “Western” master question his own methods and assumptions – especially when they relate to slavery…
I would however hesitate to call it a great feminist fantasy as such – even before then Ursula Le Guin, CJ Cherryl and Sheri Tepper had all written a lot more and better fantasy novels with less muddled feminist messages. However, I think it was probably the most mainstream with its use of Raymond E. Feist’s enormously popular Riftwar world.
Mar 19, 2013 @ 20:07:04
@CD: I wouldn’t call Daughter of the Empire feminist – as can be seen from my various comments over the web recently, I’m no expert on the topic of what is and isn’t feminist in any event. :)
I read DofE after reading the Magician series, when I was on my big fantasy kick years ago. Nowadays, my fantasy reading is almost exclusively limited to fantasy romance and I don’t read tons of that – I enjoyed the Warprize books last year and the Tairen Soul books too but fantasy romance is a kind of new (sub)genre for me.
Mar 19, 2013 @ 21:30:43
@etv13:
Maybe the best advice to Kaetrin would be to start with The Thief, but if it doesn’t grab her, to move on to The Queen of Attolia rather than give up. You are absolutely correct that there are some advantages to starting in the beginning — and I don’t regret doing so myself. It’s just that I know a few people who have never made it to the second book because the first did not grab them.
Mar 19, 2013 @ 21:37:29
I actually have The Thief (I just checked GR). I must have bought it on a special after reading someone’s review – possibly yours Janine :)
Mar 19, 2013 @ 21:52:48
@bx: Agreed with your points on the Erasmus short.
@Kaetrin:
Mar 20, 2013 @ 14:11:53
@CD:
That makes sense. Did you approach the book as a fantasy, then? I approached it as a romance, and as such, it had more intrigue and strategy than most romances do, so I was satisfied. I probably don’t read as much fantasy as you do, but I do love books with a lot of intrigue (esp. if there are also romantic threads) so if you could recommend some to me (esp. ones without overly tragic endings) I would be grateful.
I have Into the Dark Lands on my kindle, and can always purchase and download Children of the Blood immediately after finishing the first book but thanks for letting me know that I’ll need to do so. How many books are there in that series?
Thanks for the spoiler. I would have to read the series to know if I agreed with your assessment, but there have been books I’ve felt that way about too. And to clarify what I said above about “overly tragic” endings, I can deal with an ending where someone, even the main character, sacrifices his life for the greater good, but if they die in vain instead of saving someone else in the process, it’s just plain depressing to me.
Re. Captive Prince
Got it. They had quite a bit of resonance to me, though I agree the world didn’t feel fully real. Maybe they resonated so much because I was so invested in the main relationship. I loved the way the author contrasted Damen and Laurent, too.
I would say that as a reader, it’s probably more affecting to me to see themes played out in the microcosm of a personal relationship, which can be a world unto itself, than in the macrocosm of the greater world. That’s not to say that better worldbuilding wouldn’t have enhanced the book for me; I think it would have, if it was constructed in such a way as to not distract from the close focus on the relationship.
I actually have the feeling, based on Pacat’s use of some ethnographic details, as well as on all the detail about horses and military training, that this author is capable of stronger worldbuilding. I wonder if she chose not to do it because the plotting and the characterization took a lot of effort — I can see how they might, in a book like this. Or perhaps she wanted to keep the focus closely on the two protagonists.
Of course, I could be wrong in this supposition.
Captive Prince builds steam, Wattpad ruminations, and the story of paper books | Online Novel Blog
Apr 15, 2013 @ 00:23:25
[...] Dear Author – one of my favorite review blogs to read (because the reviews are personal and funny in tone) – took on Captive Prince and voila, endorsed the opinions of many thousands of readers (perhaps tens of thousands?) who have followed the serial for years with a rare RECOMMEND. [...]