BTW, anyone who thinks “arrangements” are a thing of the past, must not live below the poverty line like I do. Over the past 10 years I have stayed (faithfully) within my (nonmarital) romantic relationships mostly for financial/stability reasons. If I had had the means I would have lived alone and carried on a non-exclusive dating relationship with the boyfriend in question. I believe they would have been happier with this arrangement as well. As it was, both of our survival necessities, forced us to assume a more serious, interdependent status. The one time I did have to move out (because my partner of 5 years was interested in dating someone else and thought it would be “inconvenient” to have his ex-girlfriend still house-mating with him when he brought the new girl over to bang her), was extremely hard – not because I loved him so deeply, but because I had suddenly become homeless.

To this day, I still kick myself for showing a relationship that I knew to be mediocre the same level of loyalty and fidelity I would have shown a marriage. It didn’t seem to occur to my boyfriend that I had deliberately steered myself clear of many a burgeoning flirtation in the years leading up to his casual dumping of convenience. Because of this, it would be a very satisfying fantasy for me, personally, to read about a heroine who DOESN’T waste her life and her love being a “good girl”, but takes what she’s given when it’s offered and damn the consequences! I agree that romances are about escapism and fantasy. Just keep in mind that some of us may be living a life that is lawful to a fault. (I even manage to avoid cheating in my DREAMS – only to wake up and same damn! I could have let myself enjoy that, it was just a dream!)

I suppose because I am a goodie-two-shoes, myself, Goodie-two-shoes romances with HEA marriage proposals at the end make me gag. I’d rather escape vicariously into the hot, forbidden sex I have never and will never experience in real life.

Okay, the longer explanation does make it much less of an instinctive Ewww. I probably still wouldn’t like it, not because of the m/m, but because I have HUGE issues with non-con — the seventies-style rapemances make me physically ill, and older categories with blackmailed brides and punishing kisses etc. are not much better. Harem “romances” — would never pick one up.

But that’s just my thing. I get the psychological distinction you’re trying to make.

It is a choice to save your dignity, essentially. I know a number of women who have been put in that position. They gave consent so it wouldn’t be rape. They felt they could live through sex they didn’t really want but consented to.

One example of mine: Chuck is under arrest and being transported to execution for the crime of being gay (actually, the crime of being non-white and having something a white man wanted). The deputy transporting him takes him off the delivery route, wanting gay sex with someone who can’t tell and get the deputy executed. Chuck assesses the situation, messes with the deputy’s head and does a blow job he’s not really wanting, but can endure by thinking about his own lover. Because Chuck has taken control of the situation and turned it around on his captor, getting an upper hand psychologically, I am hesitant to consider it rape.

The one with the pirate and the sheik is an 80s thing I can’t remember the title of. (it’s been 25 years) I’m not sure, but I think our heroine thinks her pirate is dead when she’s dumped in the harem. Angelique in Barbary by Sergeanne Golon has the same notion: Angelique believes her husband is dead when she gets captured into Ismail Bay’s harem. Harem stories tend to be dubious on the consent issues anyway.

your captor is going to have you and you have a choice of being raped or consenting to it

Err. I haven’t read any of your writing that I know of, and maybe I’m missing something, or this is shorthand for something, but you mentioned this scenario twice, and…

HOW THE HECK IS THAT A CHOICE?

I mean, “Okay, I’ll let you have sex with me if you take that knife away from my throat” *is* rape, in my understanding. And if it’s something that you show the victim enjoying, that is the biggest Do Not Want EVAH for me.

The only instance I can think of of adultery in a romance novel (that I've read, anyway) is in one of Jana DeLeon's novels. The heroine is not divorced, but only because the husband took a hike and she can't find him at all (turns out he was being paid by his mother to stay away).

I could probably accept that since desertion is grounds for divorce anyway. It’s hard to say “absolutely never.” It’s more like “never, unless the author is very deft.”

Historical cheating doesn’t bother me as much b/c as others have stated, marriages back then had a different set of rules.

Contemporary cheating is a wallbanger. I read an old politically incorrect romance awhile back where the heroine cheats after becoming seriously involved with the hero for no reason other than attraction, and finds out soon after that the person she had slept with possibly had HIV. Complete 100% wallbanger.

Paranormal cheating….kind of a whole new ballpark. Since the new trend is menage and multiples, its hard to hold them to the same level especially if the relationship is equal. Ex. The Darkness series by Delilah Devlin…all the relationships are a little open ended, but it still bothers me a great deal. I absolutely hated the Larrissa Ione demon paranormal where the hero cheated b/c of a heat thing. That drives me apeshit-using sexual chemistry, and only sexual chemistry as the basis for infidelity. Forget emotional bonds, let’s just let the hero go hog wild. I gave up on that one when the cheating was revealed. I’m very much for the mating thing, but like wolves, there should be only one that gets your body, heart and soul.

Rant off..

Jo Beverley's The Shattered Rose. The plot is all about the consequences of adultery, and a lot of people didn't like the book.

I LOVE the Shattered Rose. My first Jo Beverly, and it totally hooked me. And it showcased exactly the kind of infidelity that was real and heartbreaking, and kept the characters sympathetic.

Most of my novel-length fiction has some level of infidelity, whether it’s a sexually open relationship, a character giving consent to avoid being raped or having a former lover take advantage of a weak moment.

I’m actually starting the current novel with infidelity. Our hero is in a funk, having nightmares and war flashbacks. His beloved secretary is out of town. His former lover and wingman, now his enemy, turns up. Former Lover is the only one who ever made the nightmares stop. So, Hero goes with it, despite hating FL. And yes, he pays.

Frankly, it doesn’t bother me in fiction, probably because I’m a voracious reader of all genres and don’t demand all the romance tropes be followed. Circumstantial infidelity (you’re in love with the pirate, but the sheik shoves you in his harem and demands/your captor is going to have you and you have a choice of being raped or consenting to it) especially does not bother me.

Fair enough. Thank you for clarifying. :)

@K. Z. Snow:

I love layered, thought-provoking fiction. Don't care what genre it is. I think one of the reasons romance is so often maligned is its reputation for dodging real-life issues in favor of unrealistic, superficial depictions of relationships.

I think you’ve hit at what I was clumsily trying to say. I agree completely! Not to say I don’t love other kinds of romance, but in all of my fiction, I adore good, complex relationships. Maybe it’s the actor in me? ;)

True story: I started reading James’ Desperate Duchesses last night, rife with infidelity, accepted though it was as part of the time and culture, and thought of this discussion the whole way through.

(**heh heh** my BFF the wallbanger)

@Lori: LMAO …Oh that’s a book I would buy without hesitation!

It would be hard to write a good ROMANCE that involved infidelity. I think it's easier to get my head around in real life, or in general fiction which is all about depression, betrayal, angst, and inarticulate cries for help. Infidelity is pretty much the antithesis of romance, and it would take a deft, skillful hand to pull it off and keep the characters sympathetic.

Yep. I actually voted Never, If spouse/SO is evil to h/h, AND If spouse/SO is evil to others . How’s that for complicated? :)

I can only think of one “adultery” book that I’ve read and liked – Jo Beverley’s The Shattered Rose. The plot is all about the consequences of adultery, and a lot of people didn’t like the book.

Let's face it -’ the road to fulfillment is full of bumps and detours. I'd rather see them explored than ignored.

Yeah, me too. For me it’s all in how the author approaches it. As long as there are circumstances that mitigate in some way, or make it possible to understand and sympathize with the characters, I can enjoy this type of storyline.

I love layered, thought-provoking fiction. Don’t care what genre it is. I think one of the reasons romance is so often maligned is its reputation for dodging real-life issues in favor of unrealistic, superficial depictions of relationships.

Let’s face it — the road to fulfillment is full of bumps and detours. I’d rather see them explored than ignored.

I wouldn’t want to read it in every book, but the characters I like the best are the ones who are most like real people. Real people are sometimes confused about feelings. And real people do stupid things. And then real people have to figure out a way to fix what they’ve done.

The Jane Eyre example is a perfect one. Who didn’t sigh with relief to find out the crazy woman died? But what if she hadn’t? Should Jane and Rochester never have been able to be together? And why should we be happy a poor tortured soul had to die in order for anyone to have a happy ending?

Historicals) acceptable depending on storyline
straight contemps) not acceptable
paranormals/urban fantasy) acceptable depending on worldbuilding rules