If we are still doing queries, I’ll submit mine for crushing critiquing.

I wanted what I think Jane was asking for – opinions as to whether, based on the query, a reader would be interested in reading the book. I did get some of that but what I received most of all was a lot of misinterpretation and a critique I’d expect to get from my CPs. The query I submitted has done rather well for me (several partials, one full request at a publisher right now), so I feel, for me, it’s doing it’s job. What I wanted to know is would readers find it interesting.

Shiloh gave great reader input which helped, I hope, make my query sharper. And Shiloh, you may “suck” at writing queries – but I love you reading them! :D

And darn it! I really wanted to hear from Nora! :D

I wanted to do it again – this time for another story I’m playing with since I’m in wait mode on the first one but just didn’t get it finished for Saturday.

Love the idea of the first 100-250 words – again, not for critiquing but really to get an impression of what a reader may like/not like.

Love this site!

Most readers look at the openings as part of their buying decisions, especially in book stores, so their gut reactions are critical, no matter what their industry expertise. Of course many readers here are also writers, agents and editors, with additional potential insights.

I agree nothing good can be written by committee, but I think part of the process of writing is deciding what comments are useful and discarding the rest. I also think different writers benefit from different levels of feedback, and some work best without a ton of it. But some profit greatly from it.

So did I.

I read some of the queries and comments. I’ve never done a query, and I don’t know how to do one, so it was just a matter of curiosity. But my reaction generally was: Too many people giving too many opinions–hard for an aspiring/new (which I’m assuming the queries were from) to know which to take in.

I would say this corresponds to Shannon’s too many cooks comment.

Otoh, I noticed, often, there were several comments agreeing on one or two points in a query. That could’ve been valuable, if the writer stayed objected and focused enough to see this.

I didn’t comment on the queries themselves–I think I made a grammar comment on a personal pet peeve–because I don’t know what editors/agents look for in a query. I really don’t. I don’t imagine many readers do either.

Those who submitted queries were looking for comments–from people who post here–readers, writers, whatever. So that’s fine. That’s what it’s about. I lean in Shannon’s direction as to whether the comments were especially helpful, simply because so many sources, so many opinions.

I don’t think you can write ANYTHING well or strong when you write by committee. Just my personal opinion. And many will disagree. If one writer got one piece of advice that helped or opened a door to clarity for her, that’s a win for that individual.

As to taking the criticism hard–let’s give the new/aspiring writer a bit of a break. It takes some time to develop skin thick enough to handle direct criticism. Tough layers don’t simply form because you put your fingers on the keyboard.

Kathleen, I'm far from being a pro, but I've got probably 30-40 pubbed titles between epubs and mainstream pubs, and I'm still paranoid.

Shiloh you are not alone! LOL

As to successful queries and blurbs…I think it’s a great idea. I actually do write most of my blurbs–they get changed by my editor but the bare bones come from me.

If writers feel that comments made here, over something they volunteered freely, are too harsh, will they be able to achieve that degree of separation once their book does get published?

All writers need to realize that every writer takes knocks…and pretty regularly. Just gotta keep that fact in mind. A good place to go for solace is the Rejection Collection. I’m not sure when the site was last updated, but it’s still there and still relevant.

When a writer is published, their work is out there for everyone, their brother and their trained parakeet to look at, analyze, take apart, snark at, etc. That takes both guts and the ability to separate their identity from their work.

If writers feel that comments made here, over something they volunteered freely, are too harsh, will they be able to achieve that degree of separation once their book does get published?

I was just offering an opinion.

As was I. And I’m honestly not trying to start a brawl, so I won’t belabor the point by explaining again why I reacted the way I did. I’ll just say thanks for clarifying your point.

(As for someone stealing your idea… I've discovered that it's only we amateur writers who are worried about this. The more you understand about the business, the more you realize that someone would have to be insane to even try it… especially from a unpublished – and therefore unproven – author.)

Kathleen, I’m far from being a pro, but I’ve got probably 30-40 pubbed titles between epubs and mainstream pubs, and I’m still paranoid. I think it’s an individual author thing, not a ‘how long you’ve been at it’ thing.

On the paranoia thing, though…I assume that I can prove from my electronic files that I came up with the words before someone else did…. Maybe that's not right?

Leah, I imagine they can. I just have quirks, many of them. ;) I keep telling my agent that my paranoia is part of my charm. Of course, she hasn’t agreed with me, but I’m entitled to my delusions, right?

Hmm, Julie, I really like your idea. Maybe we could post the first 250 words and then link to a longer excerpt, i.e., like first chapters or something. Would we limit it to debut authors? Or make it available for anyone?

I like this idea, too, if the opportunity extends to everybody. Even published authors could benefit from a mix of feedback (other writers, readers, reviewers, editors), especially when they’re wading into a new subgenre. (Oy…) But the query analyses were also enlightening. Maybe you could do each on alternate weeks?

To me -’ and I'll admit I'm factoring some of your comments after the Edwards incident in here -’ there's a sense that readers are overstepping our bounds, somehow, as “too many cooks with their spoons in the soup, many of whom didn't know the recipe.”

If I’d known I was getting dinged for comments I made two months ago on an entirely different topic, I might have had a better idea where you were coming from. Without going back and rereading every comment and studying context and whatnot, I’m going to take a wild guess that you didn’t care for my comment that writers might start to fear that readers want to look over our shoulders while we write. I think I was just offering a theory on why some writers were getting a little nervous about readers wanting us to list every research source and such.

But for today’s topic, saying Who the hell do you people think you are is condescending crap. Saying Don’t you worry your pretty little heads about it is condescending crap. Saying I personally believe this isn’t the best venue for an author seeking query help isn’t condescending, I don’t think.

And at the risk of digging myself a deeper hole:

This is the part of my comment which you quoted…

, most who've been a part of the romance writing community for any length of time would agree this wasn't the right venue for that kind of exercise. And I mean no disrespect to Dear Author, but there were simply too many cooks with their spoons in the soup, many of whom didn't know the recipe.

…for your response (bolding mine):

You've made a few comments in this vein, and while I don't think you intend them to be condescending, they still come across that way to me -’ it's that sense of “appropriateness,” I think, especially in regard to either a) publicly published or b) publicly volunteered work. Also, a number of readers actually do write for a living, even if it's outside Romance or fiction altogether. Some even teach writing. Although I don't even think that should matter particularly. Beyond that, though, I don't understand how comments that a) point out places where the writing is unclear or grammatically unsound, or b) where the story sounds derivative, uninteresting, or overly complicated are inappropriate when offered to *volunteered* queries, even if the commenters are *mere* readers.

I didn’t limit my comment on not enough cooks knowing the recipe to readers. There were a couple of published authors I thought gave pretty questionable advice, too. And the anonymity of the queries, while necessary, also works against it. Without knowing who a query is intended for, it’s awfully hard to tailor it to appeal to that editor/house, and that’s the most important aspect of the query letter.

And maybe I’m wrong and this is the best forum ever for getting query help. Okay, fine. I was just offering an opinion. But I’ve never disregarded anybody’s opinion because they were a *mere* reader, and I apologize if I’ve made people feel I have.

I thought the query thing was different from the rest of the topics on this site, but I don’t think that is a bad thing. It was/is very useful and interesting, and makes me appreciate more than anything that I don’t have to write them any more. Now, I still find myself having to write synopses, so Synopses Saturday would be useful for me!

I think a blog site can get boring and rote. What I notice on this site is that the comment topics, the idea topics get a lot more energy than the reviews. Maybe people read the reviews, but it’s the ideas that get everyone on the board. People responded on Query Satruday. Maybe not as much when we get on a high horse of some kind, but it was peopled and interesting and useful.

Jessica

If the Ja(y)nes do not continue Query Saturdays here and some of you are still looking for help, feel free to join the rest of us on Nathan Bransford’s blog, Kristin Nelson’s Pub Rants, Jennifer Jackson’s Et in arcadia, ego, and Bookends, LLC.. There are more, but these are my favorites. Kristin Nelson even did a series, sharing and evaluating the successful query letters of her clients. You’ll find the links to those down on the right side of her blog.

Happy query letter writing!

(As for someone stealing your idea… I’ve discovered that it’s only we amateur writers who are worried about this. The more you understand about the business, the more you realize that someone would have to be insane to even try it… especially from a unpublished – and therefore unproven – author.)

As for criticism – I think if you want to improve, learning to take in criticism, evaluate what is and isn’t valuable, and apply it is a vital part of life. Usually if someone is just being nasty for the sake of being nasty, I can recognize it as such. Although, my mom’s normally my reader, and she’s like Simon Cowell going through the change, so I may have just developed a tough skin at this point.

On the paranoia thing, though…I assume that I can prove from my electronic files that I came up with the words before someone else did…. Maybe that’s not right?

FWIW, I didn’t think Ms. Stacy was being condescending of this project. I thought she was being matter of fact. [shrug]

Carry on…

That's not what I objected to in Shannon's comments. But I expressed my feelings (which I think it's safe to say I've been holding unexpressed for a while, lol), so I won't repeat myself.

Repressing emotions is bad for the soul, Robin. ;)

Go ahead, snort away, but I bet I'm not alone.

Nope. Not alone. I very rarely discuss new ideas in any sort of public venue, and rarely in a private one~just one on one with a friend now and then.

Moi? Paranoid? Oh absolutely.