Unless you’re saying that our “loyalty” should involve us meekly and quietly waiting for Signet to do the right thing, when every implication is that Signet didn’t care to run Edwards’s books through plagiarism-detecting software to begin with and that they would’ve swept this entire deal under the rug if not for the massive outcry and media attention.

I posted this on another blog but I feel it applies here as well: I've always thought the romance community was very loyal, but lately it appears that some people on the blog want to ruin this woman's life and career

Layne, you’re entitled to your opinion, but I think most people have enough going on in their own lives to worry about ruining the life of a historical romance author over plagiarism.

Yeah, some of us… me included… are watching this closely, but since it’s something that could impact a lot of writers, writers are certainly entitled.

Readers who put down their hard earned money for a book are entitled to see how this plays out because none of them probably want to think about using that hard earned money to buy a book that may or may not have plagiarized content.

I have no desire to ruin any body’s life or career but if the author in question can’t even admit she made a mistake, then what’s to keep her from doing so again in the future?

If there isn’t some measure of accountability, some sort of consequence, then there is little deterrent to others who may consider doing this in the future.

If nothing else, this has probably enlightened some people that may not seem to realize the seriousness of plagiarism.

By and large, the discussion has centered on plagiarism, and not personality. I recall, clearly, having many other writers accuse me of publicly attacking Dailey when I took action against her lifting my work. I wish I could get a clear and logical explanation of why it’s wrong to speak out against what, on my scale, is the biggest offense in the profession.

Layne, I certainly don’t want to ruin anyone’s life or career–and have made no jokes on the issue of plagiarism. I have no obligation to be loyal to anyone if I believe they’ve plagiarized. In fact, I feel obligated to speak out against appropriating another writer’s work.

It appears there are multiple examples of copying–from work out of copyright, and work still copyrighted. A writer who does this puts her own career at risk.

It is possible to express similar facts but use radically different words and word order. And if someone is to avoid stealing another writer’s hard work, it’s absolutely necessary. The passages are far too similar for coincidence, and to say that it’s completely fine to lift them wholesale is bullshit.

Fair use. People keep using that term. In the words of our old friend Inigo, “I do not think it means what you think it means.”

Ms. Smith, as you may know, “fair use” is not part of the copyright statutes per se, but is a defense employed to allow the use of copyrighted material without *permission*. Plagiarism relates to the use of material without *attribution,* whether or not it is in the public domain. In this case, the allegations are that Edwards used material without *attribution*. Please, please read the explanatory comments on the difference made by “the rhetorician” on Ros’s livejournal: http://girlyswot.livejournal.com/83299.html

If you are someone who, as an author, engages in any secondary research, I’m sure you are well aware of the differences between, say, the Encyclopedia Brittanica’s entry on the longhouse and Daniel K. Richter’s book The Ordeal of the Longhouse: The Peoples of the Iroquois League in the Era of European Colonization, published by the University of North Carolina Press and the academic equivalent of an original work of fiction. The sources cited on the SB site are not encyclopedic in nature, but are themselves works of scholarship, even if they *contain* factual information.

Although it might not seem as pretty to those of you who write fiction, the prose in academic texts is not, as some would have it, mere factual representation, anymore than the text in Romance novels is mere formula. If a student or an academic copied unattributed sources into their own work and claimed it as their own, it would not be OK — it would not be anywhere near OK. It frankly scares me that any author would argue that such a thing is OK in fiction, as if the hard work and original scholarship and creative energy of researchers and academics is unimportant. Isn’t that dismissive attitude exactly what Romance authors and readers chastise when those outside the community make similar comments about Romance?

The bigger question is what prompted such an ugly public attack on a 71-year-old author who, so far as we know at his point, has committed no illegal act and who, again so far as we know, never had any greedy or subversive intent whatsoever regarding the material she allegedly paraphrased.

Do you believe this because you don’t think Edwards did anything wrong, or because you think it should have been handled differently?

Signet’s initial response claimed they didn’t think Edwards did anything wrong, and IMO it was only the repeated attention and publicity to the matter that got them to revise that initial statement. If you believe Edwards did nothing wrong in copying that material into her own books, then I would argue that there is a BIG problem in this community in regard to accepted standards of intellectual honesty.

If I wrote an academic text and copied pieces of Romance novels into that manuscript, putting them out there AS MY OWN WORDS, you can bet that every author used in such a way, and their publishers, would be trying to pursue that manuscript, legally, ethically, and in every other way.

Neither the SBs or those of us at DA have attacked Cassie Edwards as a person. How is posting examples of UNATTRIBUTED copied material in her books an “ugly public attack”? I agree it’s an ugly state of affairs for Romance, and I thank goodness I don’t have to make any decision as to what happens to Edwards or her books after this, and I completely agree with you that any insults to her *as a person* are completely unwarranted and over the line of decency and propriety. But if you are arguing that Edwards is the one being victimized here, I would simply say that another author recently tried to argue the same thing when it was revealed that a MS she was trying to sell as her own work contained pages of copyrighted work by another, recently deceased, author. How is it, in these situations, that those whose work has been used without attribution are basically nonexistent, those who bring the issue to light are villains, and those who have used the unattributed work are innocent victims?

If Edwards believed what she did is okay, I’d say that’s more an indictment of the relevant publishing and writing communities in general for not making it clear that it’s not acceptable. I have no interest in seeing Edwards strung up or anything else, although I don’t think her novels should continue to sell without attribution to the source work she uses. I have no bad feelings towards Edward as a person, because as someone who has had to turn student plagiarism cases in, it’s often heartbreaking to be in that position.

But at the same time, I would think every author would be staring in horror at what the SBs have uncovered, afraid that their work could similarly find its way into someone else’s work under someone else’s name. I mean, would you be okay if I wrote a Romance novel comprised entirely of five or ten sentences from other Romance authors’ books, passing it all off as my own? Is that “fair use” in your view, too?

I certainly hope not. It’s lazy, tacky and IMHO, just plain wrong.

Deborah wrote: The bigger question is what prompted such an ugly public attack on a 71-year-old author who, so far as we know at his point, has committed no illegal act and who, again so far as we know, never had any greedy or subversive intent whatsoever regarding the material she allegedly paraphrased.

No, I think you’re missing the bigger question – why is an author taking chunks of text from someone else’s work and sticking it into theirs? I’ve never met the lady but I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that she meant no harm and very possibly didn’t know it was wrong – though as I former English teacher I doubt that.

Even if these incidents are judged to be ‘fair use’, it is still morally wrong to make money using the work of others. If I were one of the authors she ‘borrowed’ work from, you could bet I’d be pissed.

(and why education on what is ‘fair use’ and what is ‘plagiarism’ is so necessary)

The bigger question is what prompted such an ugly public attack on a 71-year-old author who, so far as we know at his point, has committed no illegal act and who, again so far as we know, never had any greedy or subversive intent whatsoever regarding the material she allegedly paraphrased.

This incident reminds me why I admire Tiger Woods so much. Such graciousness and discretion combined with such power and money.

What goes around comes around!

One can only hope.

Imagine that! Dozens of nearly-identical novels, all of them featuring terrible wording, overall logical failure, and a white girl who gets kidnapped by natives and ends up screwing some gorgeous Gary Stu-rific warrior . . . Oh, wait.

I would like to know how associated press got involved and how they obtained Ms. Edwards' private, unlisted home telephone number.

Because, really, God forbid reporters actually report stuff.

What goes around comes around!

One can only hope.

I don’t see any speculating going on. I see downright slanderous statements being made.

What the SB’s have done is downright disgusting. They have made it a habit of attacking Ms. Edwards and have now gone above and beyond to drag her name through the mud.

I would like to know how associated press got involved and how they obtained Ms. Edwards’ private, unlisted home telephone number.

What goes around comes around!