Your comments about the votes are the same as those being made by RT representatives, which is that the poll is a result of a conspiracy among MxM authors and / or fans. Since you supported them in this way, I explained why their opinion about the poll was, IMO, ridiculous and a result of their own dislike of the genre, which was shown by other comments they’ve made.

I’m not saying that you echo what I perceive to be their feelings about MxM books at all.

[quote]It is a “nicheâ€? and I don't think some of the authors are using their best potential with RT.[/quote]

Of course it’s a niche. So are inspirationals, which are treated rather differently by RT. Do they sell as well as mainstream romances? How do they know inspirational readers read RT? Because of a poll?

And of course everyone’s in it for profit. That’s why almost every manga house this side of the Pacific is starting a yaoi line. And it’s why said yaoi lines are and have become the supporting foundations of many manga houses, because they’re proven to sell consistently to a fanbase that can’t get enough.

And this is a growing fanbase demanding novels. Fan demands and a poll resulted in the publication here of the first yaoi novel in English. The publisher never thought that fans would want it and so hadn’t even considered the possibility. I think American publishers are terribly short-sighted about this, until it’s shoved down their throats. Almost everyone except the Japanese has underestimated the draw of this genre to American women.

There’s an untapped market of women in the US for MxM romances. If they’re not selling that well yet, that means the publishing houses aren’t aiming them correctly. All of the yaoi fans I know found yaoi unexpectedly, because they came across an ad or an article or a story somewhere that interested them. MxM writers need exposure in these unexpected but related places and not just at the niche readers, in order to expand their sales. Reviews in RT would help the writers gain new readers, so it makes perfect sense to me to try to get exposure there.

RT doesn’t owe them the space of course. Unless they sell it to them under false pretenses. Which is the accusation, and one to be taken serious since their formal policy apparently says nothing about how there is an exception out of all kinds of romances for the MxM ones.

given what has been proven in today's market, that women love slash and yaoi

Say “some” women, “many” women, even “most” women, but please don’t speak for “all” women. That’s like saying all women have rape fantasies or want to read “secret baby” stories.

We all like different things. Hasn’t that been at least part of the point of this topic? That some of RT’s readership would like to read M/M, so excluding it because some of the others wouldn’t is short-sighted and unfair?

Personally, I don’t care for M/M or M/M/F (although I enjoy M/F/M). I suspect it’s because I put myself in the heroine’s place (also why I don’t like TSTL heroines), and if I’m in her place, well…I want all the lovin’! *snicker*

My comments about those type of votes are in no way associated with RT opinions. They are my observations, based on a number of things, not only in the Romance industry, but in others.

However…(and Lordy, I’m going to get that whole “You are saying your best friends are gay thing to make us think you are one with us and our genre”) as an editor, I bought some great slash books. Rocking books.

But…even the rocking ones didn’t often sell well. It is a “niche” and I don’t think some of the authors are using their best potential with RT. Not at this point. There are other avenues, and they should work them like no tomorrow.

And, sorry, but no matter what, every person from top to bottom is in it for profit. Every author, publisher, editor, review site, agent, blah blah blah, are in it for profit. How it comes about for each is different, but it is a given. All this hoohaw over the net will profit for some.

Me Jaded? Totally.

Get a clue. If one does a poll and immediately assumes a conspiracy when it’s perfectly reasonable that the results are true given what has been proven in today’s market, that women love slash and yaoi, that implies one simply isn’t accepting it because the results aren’t what one wanted to see. Which in this case, implies something about one’s feelings on the subject of MxM romance. Which is backed up by one saying things like MxM romance is to romance like yoga is to Nascar.

Now Carol is in deep doo doo for saying she has “gay friends” and calling gay romance a “niche market”.

Heavens to Betsy. Let’s hang her from the yard arm and flay the flesh from her body.

As to the vote at the RT site about strictly M/M F/F romances…Have any of you watched American Idol this year and the ballot stuffing?

Has anyone paid attention to the new voting system on Dancing With The Stars this year?

Has anyone ever competed in some of these writing contests conducted only on the net?

I’m just saying…

As to “niche market”. Yeppers, a true and valid thing. ‘Tis a biz, and people track it on more than just the “come on in and vote” level. Sign up for publications like Publishers Weekly, and you’ll get a real insight into changing markets.

Regarding the fact that you have to buy RT to see reviews…No. A month or so after the issue hits the stand, you can see the reviews on the website. It is a courtesy to the subscribing public that they not post the reviews until later on the site. You want the goods quickly, subscribe.

And now…I am waiting to see if someone will take offence to Mrs. Giggles using the term “because sometimes a spade is a spade”. Why? Because it is used in an entirely harmless post, but someone will equate it to her being prejudiced to people of color. After all, in the past, that term was considered extremely derogatory. Will the masses gather up in arms and call her a bigot???

I certainly hope not. Because this train wreck needs to be cleaned up now.

Right someone who censors Gay Romances obviously would also have a problem with Gay Authors.

But I did not go there for reasons that the actual issues at hand had to do with Gay content not Gay Authors.

I hope no one thinks I (a Gay Man) would feel welcomed with open arms, by Carol Stacy, …

And I rather object to gay romance being dubbed a niche market, I have to say. Is being gay now considered a niche?

Personally I don’t mind reading m/m – I’ve been a closeted slash fan for a long time now. But, I think from a business point of view, gay romance can be considered a niche market since not everyone reads M/M or gay romances. The appeal of M/M romances isn’t universal. Since “niche market” means “specialized market”, that kinda fits. It isn’t fair to ascribe some kind of negative motivation to the use of the term to describe gay romances because sometimes a spade is a spade.

Besides, authors of gay romances aren’t necessarily gay (most are straight women), so “writing gay romances” and “being gay” aren’t necessarily one and the same.

Thanks for mentioning this, Erastes. I’d begun drafting a letter — as polite and empathetic to Ms. Stacy’s position as I could possibly make it, because there’s a part of me that feels sorry for her, as I would for anyone who seems so confused and overwhelmed — but I won’t bother to continue working on it. It’s a shame the “openness” and “willingness to respond” she showed to Jane had an expiration date.

But hell, she’s a busy woman. I bet it takes considerable time and energy to come up with analogies like “gay romance is to romantic fiction as Yoga is to NASCAR.”

Don’t they have Gay members?

Seems to me, this would be a sticky situation for them as an organization purportedly looking out for it’s entire writer membership.

“I suspect this isn't about homophobia alone.”

It can not be just homophobia because most of these writers are straight women. Like RT’s fearless leader went on and on and on and on about supporting with positive energy, singing Kum-by-a and a buy an ad and we will review you back gua-RANT-y.

Since it’s then an issue about the “content” of the books, then it has to be about censorship too.

Now, to writers and publishers I think this blatantly described practice would be a BIG concern because your ads would then associate you with this type of discrimination.

So common sense says… if you allow the censorship of a recognized minority, in this case homosexual romance, then… What’s next? African American or Asian or… well who’s next on that justification?

for business reasons of course.

Um, no, centerfolds wasn’t my point. But it’s close. So I’ll just spell it out. Doesn’t anyone else think it’s highly ironic that a magazine that is otherwise obsessed with male cover models is getting all this flak over an incident related to one?

And then they don’t stand up for them . . . like I said, sitting on that fence can get painful.

Jane,

I was staying out of this discussion because in this case RT can review what it wants and blame anyone they want.
Blaming their readership for their own magazines continued prejudice and bigotry and hateful practices is nasty and says a lot about what they think of the Romance Community, but oh well.

Laura B. is still a part of the Romance Community and has the right to attend these events that RT puts on and be treated just like any other author wanting to network and promote her work to the people who attend. So she pays her money to these assholes and expects at least professional behaviour from them.

That’s the real issue… Carol Stacy and her crew cannot seem to be trusted to provide even that common business like courtesy without bringing their little “m/m romance is not romance worthy” into these events. The simple fact is if they want to screen who attends then they should simply not take the money.

To state it’s a business decision is crap no matter how you look at it, she was given the results of a poll where 56 percent of the takers expressed an interest in having RT’s review m/m books, and instead of taking this information and running with it as any business venture would – or at the very LEAST running a trial on the website (which is a pointless website as you can’t access it unless you subscribe to the magazine so why would you bother?) they crossed their arms, pouted and said “Oh no! Our lovely poll has been spoiled because a load of m/m writers and readers have participated, so we will ignore the results”

And I rather object to gay romance being dubbed a niche market, I have to say. Is being gay now considered a niche?